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View Full Version : Microphone feedback - Aaarrggghhh!!!!!



KaraokeDJ
14-12-2007, 03:45 PM
Does anyone have the occasional gig where due to the positioning of your rig, the speakers and the singers (I use that term loosely) you end up tweaking the mixer and eq all night to get rid of feedback?

Any tips?

Martin

Solitaire Events Ltd
14-12-2007, 03:49 PM
Try and get the HF unit up a bit higher - that helps a bit.

Tom
14-12-2007, 04:02 PM
Try not to turn up the high frequency as this is the main offender. IF this dont help try and get hold of one of these. They do the job very well - http://www.behringer.com/FBQ2496/index.cfm?lang=eng


The link is for the more expensive one but it is slightly better.

CRAZY K
14-12-2007, 04:07 PM
Does anyone have the occasional gig where due to the positioning of your rig, the speakers and the singers (I use that term loosely) you end up tweaking the mixer and eq all night to get rid of feedback?

Any tips?

Martin

Which sound system and mike do you use?

CRAZY K

KaraokeDJ
15-12-2007, 09:14 AM
... try and get hold of one of these. They do the job very well - http://www.behringer.com/FBQ2496/index.cfm?lang=eng

I was thinking about one of these (or similar) but am out of space in my vocal rack and was looking for something that didn't need more rack space. I've read different opinions on them.

Have you heard anything about the "Behringer Shark DSP110 Feedback Destroyer"? It's small and doesn't require rack space...

Martin

KaraokeDJ
15-12-2007, 09:22 AM
Which sound system and mike do you use?

Gosh - where to start... All my gear is currently in my truck n trailer so I can't quote model numbers etc., But all audio (cd/laptop etc.,) goes into an Alesis mixer; My wireless mic feeds into mic 1 input; guest mics (wired) go into mic inputs 2 & 3; all mic channels are fed out through send A which goes into a Behringer compressor then through the reverb and back in to the mixer in line/mic 4 (rather than aux recieve) so by that point I've sorted any pops and screaches and it helps to combat the screaming drunk howling into the mic!!!

Once all the audio has gone through the mix, my main output goes to the 32 chanel EQ and then into amp1 & amp2 and out to the speakers.

Very vague reply but that's the best I can do in my tired state of mind while I can't turn around and look at my gear to be more specific.

Martin

CRAZY K
15-12-2007, 12:03 PM
Gosh - where to start... All my gear is currently in my truck n trailer so I can't quote model numbers etc., But all audio (cd/laptop etc.,) goes into an Alesis mixer; My wireless mic feeds into mic 1 input; guest mics (wired) go into mic inputs 2 & 3; all mic channels are fed out through send A which goes into a Behringer compressor then through the reverb and back in to the mixer in line/mic 4 (rather than aux recieve) so by that point I've sorted any pops and screaches and it helps to combat the screaming drunk howling into the mic!!!

Once all the audio has gone through the mix, my main output goes to the 32 chanel EQ and then into amp1 & amp2 and out to the speakers.

Very vague reply but that's the best I can do in my tired state of mind while I can't turn around and look at my gear to be more specific.

Martin

OK a bit more info please.

Whats the MAKE and model of your radio mike?

Whats the MAKE and model of your speakers?

Thats enough really--you seem to have an awful lot of special "effects" which I normally would only expect for a Studio environment.

32 channel EQ---is that TOO sophisticated for a pub?

Im not a KDJ so I dont know-I dont have to make a drunk down the pub sound like Frank Sinatra:D

On reading this again I wonder if by supplying and using studio quality equipment to compensate for the shortcomings of the singers through your mixer and reverb plus compressor and 32 channels you are producing more feedback than say a simple Peavey Amp/ Mixer and decent mike.

Maybe you need a simpler mixing set up?

cheers

CRAZY K

BeerFunk
15-12-2007, 12:33 PM
Whats the MAKE and model of your radio mike?

Whats the MAKE and model of your speakers?
Is that an implication that 'cheaper' gear is more prone to feedback? ;)

KaraokeDJ
16-12-2007, 07:55 AM
Is that an implication that 'cheaper' gear is more prone to feedback? ;)

Morning everyone - a bit sleepy eyed but thought I'd read the posts while sipping my first cuppa...

I don't think Crazy K was suggesting that cheaper is more prone to feedback - but anyway, I used the exact same kit last night and had a fantastic night with no feedback.

I didn't say that my radio mic was the one with feedback so we'll skip that - although it's a KAM. As for the EQ, it is prior to the amp and not just on the vocal side of things. And the EQ, I suspect, was the savior because I eq'd slightly different last night and - hey presto - nice clean sound.

Yes, I possibly do have more gear than I need but a lot I've picked up from recording at home - doing my own vocals etc., but it is not excessive really - a compressor and EQ in addition to reverb etc that would be in any decent KJ's kit bag.

Anyway - good morning..:)

Off to do a 14th Birthday Disco today! First teenage birthday for ages! Anyone got any tips!

CRAZY K
16-12-2007, 10:58 AM
Is that an implication that 'cheaper' gear is more prone to feedback? ;)

No--its reality.

For example--Radio MIkes

Numark WS32 --cheap but useful starter radio MIke about £40--
as opposed to my JTS which cost me about £180 ---far superior on quality and feedback.

I own both and use them, well not the WS32 much :D


CRAZY K

CRAZY K
16-12-2007, 11:02 AM
Morning everyone - a bit sleepy eyed but thought I'd read the posts while sipping my first cuppa...

I don't think Crazy K was suggesting that cheaper is more prone to feedback - but anyway, I used the exact same kit last night and had a fantastic night with no feedback.

I didn't say that my radio mic was the one with feedback so we'll skip that - although it's a KAM. As for the EQ, it is prior to the amp and not just on the vocal side of things. And the EQ, I suspect, was the savior because I eq'd slightly different last night and - hey presto - nice clean sound.

Yes, I possibly do have more gear than I need but a lot I've picked up from recording at home - doing my own vocals etc., but it is not excessive really - a compressor and EQ in addition to reverb etc that would be in any decent KJ's kit bag.

Anyway - good morning..:)

Off to do a 14th Birthday Disco today! First teenage birthday for ages! Anyone got any tips!

Great news then!

No need to discuss any more--im not a KDJ so I cant really give an answer from working experience--

CRAZY K

mr rusty
16-12-2007, 04:52 PM
Have you heard anything about the "Behringer Shark DSP110 Feedback Destroyer"? It's small and doesn't require rack space...

I have one of these I have used for live sound occasionally. TBH, it mostly got used for band practice sessions where the small space was prone to feedback. They work quite well as long as you don't expect miracles. They also have a useful gate/compressor function and work as a DI box/pre amp as well. If you set more than 3-6db filters tho' you can end up with a somewhat woolly sound. What I found was a very good use for it was to knock out the bass resonant frequency on an electro-acoustic guitar - not too relevant to disco use tho!

Starlight
17-12-2007, 12:47 AM
Hi there.

If you have 2 microphones and test them with the same settings, the microphone with a tighter pickup pattern will keep feedback to a minimum. If you compare the Shure SM58 to the Shure Beta 58, the beta will outperform the SM series, its to do with the pickup pattern and frequency range. The SM58 is cardioid and the beta is super cardioid. Bottom line is - the tighter the pickup pattern, the less feedback you will receive :cool:

Hope this helps :)

Mendoza.

axeman
17-12-2007, 04:19 PM
feedback usually is caused by just the location of the speakers in relation to the mics. are you using a monitor ?

flatliners
21-12-2007, 01:54 AM
kam do the kva1300 its a mic mixer with dsp and effects also got feed back distroyer not seen is working anyone know more about it and is it easy to work

h8ytr
21-12-2007, 09:15 AM
Hi, I just bought one and used it last night for the first time in a pub where I normally get terrible feedback...last night...hardly none at all!

Now the unit is quite difficult to operate and understand (esp as the manual is rubbish) but it seemed to work very well for me last night!

pagan_flame
22-12-2007, 03:25 AM
Feedback is a frequency - or musical note, if you like.

Turn the gain down so it is just below feedback level, then push up sliders in turn to the top on your graphic equaliser 'til you find the right frequency (the one that givesyou the feedback). Kill that frequency (i.e. push the slider down to full cut) and that's the job done.

I mixed bands I was in for 14 years with this technique with no better than a 10 band, so yer average 50 quid 15 band should do the job nice :rolleyes:

Tom
24-12-2007, 01:00 AM
Not nit picking but lets say you buy a 15 band eq and you cant find the frequency to kill???

I have a 31 band eq and i still have problems. I dont have 14 years experiance under my belt but i was highly rated by my college for doing live sound and all that.

pagan_flame
25-12-2007, 10:48 AM
Not nit picking but lets say you buy a 15 band eq and you cant find the frequency to kill???

I have a 31 band eq and i still have problems. I dont have 14 years experiance under my belt but i was highly rated by my college for doing live sound and all that.

Well I'd suggest that you then make sure the Car Boot sale microphone is more than 2 inches away from the speakers... :D

Tom
25-12-2007, 04:32 PM
I only use sennheiser mics.

But if you do buy cheap microphones then you you will get tones of feedback.

djsteve10
25-12-2007, 04:57 PM
Well i use shure myself, wouldn't change them... yeah you might have a good mixer but a rubbish mic with it wont make a difference. It's like putting a ford 1.1 engine in Rolls Royce

Sam
25-12-2007, 08:40 PM
I only use sennheiser mics.

But if you do buy cheap microphones then you you will get tones of feedback.

don't really agree... i think your generalising a bit much imho.

Excalibur
27-12-2007, 07:29 AM
Well I'd suggest that you then make sure the Car Boot sale microphone is more than 2 inches away from the speakers... :D


:Laugh:



I only use sennheiser mics.

But if you do buy cheap microphones then you you will get tones of feedback.

Tons, or Tonnes, but yes indeed. A (reasonable) quality mic is essential. I have low cost Shure and Sennheiser, and will upgrade at some point. In this case, the badge is a good indicator of quality.;)

Jays karaoke
15-01-2008, 07:50 AM
Getting feedback is nothing to do with what equipment you have or how good your mics are. It is in fact what KaraokeDJ mentioned when he asked the question.......where the singer is stood in relation to your speakers, and other things of course. If your singer is stood directly in front of you speaker you are going to get feedback, try moving them away from your speakers or think ahead when you set up and position your speakers so they are not near your singers, not easily done at all venues i know .
If you have done the above or cannot due to space there a few thing that can contribute to feedback such as mic levels too high, gain levels too high, too much top end, too much reverb or echo, you could even have too much bass on your mics.
Knowing where the feedback is coming from makes it easier to fix the problem ie a low end droning sound is obviously too much bottom on you mics whilst too much top end including reverb can cause a squeeling sound. Now if you have a singer up and you start getting a squealing sound the first thing i would do is take off abit of gain (if you desk has this) if not try lowering you trebble on your mic 9 times out of 10 top end feedback will be simply too much trebble or gain (top end).
So you get a low droning sound...easy... take off abit of bass on you mic.
Feedback will only ever come from you mic so that is the only thing you need to alter on your desk.
You don't need to spend money buying new equipment, just set up your gear properly and learn about feedback and where it is coming from.
Hope this helps

Jay

Allys_Karaoke_Show
24-01-2008, 03:05 AM
What him up there said... also agree with the eq channel one but losing a channel is a bit extreme. I use a Dynacord Powermate 600 and Wharfedale LX 15s which are very toppy if you don't set em up right. Sounnds great though when its right and thats most of the time. you can't go wrong with the Dynacord but do need to upgrade the speakers... any ideas peeps, was thinking of the Peavey UL15s???

KaraokeDJ
24-01-2008, 09:36 AM
Thanks to all the replies and I think Jay hit the nail on the head (ouch! that was my thumb!) and his comments are very accurate.

Recently I was in a pub where I connected my mixer into their house mixer (used their amps and speakers) and the sound was way out from what I'm used to from my own kit. The DJ there made a few suggestions and we eq'd my kit with the bass on the speakers (on my mixer) down and the sound became much clearer.

At that venue the singers were under the speakers (they were hung hign on the walls above the dance floor aiming down) and the usual amount of constant tweaking as the singers point mics in the direction of the sound kept things sounding ok. Once or twice throughout the night there was a brief squeel but no low-end feedback like I have experienced before.

The next few nights I've aimed the top-end speakers slightly sideways away from 'centre-stage' so that when the singer was in the middle of the rig looking at my screen, the high frequencies weren't aiming right back at them. I also turn the low-end down on each mic (up a bit for the ladies) and also keep it down on the effects return (after the mics have gone through the compressor and reverb etc) and the sound has been much better.

The only problem I've had is when the singers crown right up to my rig and get too close to the speakers - not a lot I can do then but turn the gain down (even more than I'd have done already). I don;t understand people - you give them a decent length mic lead or even a wireless mic and they still insist on standing as close as they can to the DJ rig!!!

However, summary - with relatively low-cost mics (for the singers) I've pretty much won the battle against feedback. WIthout buying more expensive mics and without buying any more equipment. Thanks to the comments on here and from experimenting.

There were some comments on here about 'cheap' mics but I'd rather see a £40 mic on the floor than an £80 (or more) mic. I'm very selective who gets to use my expensive mics, but even I usually use a £100 radio mic or a £20 or £40 wired mic because, used correctly, they can all sound good enough for Karaoke.

Martin

Jays karaoke
28-01-2008, 07:59 PM
What him up there said... also agree with the eq channel one but losing a channel is a bit extreme. I use a Dynacord Powermate 600 and Wharfedale LX 15s which are very toppy if you don't set em up right. Sounnds great though when its right and thats most of the time. you can't go wrong with the Dynacord but do need to upgrade the speakers... any ideas peeps, was thinking of the Peavey UL15s???

If your using the Dynacord desk then you definately need to go for the EVsx300, this is the perfect match.

Allys_Karaoke_Show
29-01-2008, 11:32 AM
Thanks Jay I'll have a look!

DazzyD
01-03-2008, 12:05 AM
Totally agree with the comment about linking up the Dynacord with a pair of EVs. Nice sounding system that.

The biggest problem I've had from feedback actually stems from using 2 SM58s together for a duet. When the mics get close to each other (you know the thing, a couple of lasses singing with their arms around each other singing something awful like I Will Survive!) they seem to fight with each other. However, pair an SM58 with something like a Sennheiser or a £25 KAM and this problem isn't there. Also, feedback tends to occur when a singer lowers the mic below waist level. What's all that about?

Anyone else experienced this?

KaraokeDJ
02-03-2008, 08:12 AM
[QUOTE=DazzyD;208410]Also, feedback tends to occur when a singer lowers the mic below waist level. What's all that about?QUOTE]

I have experienced that. When the mics are lowered (usually in between verses etc.,) the mics pick up more bass. The way I have dealt with that is turn the bass down on the mics. It seems to help.