Powering off D2 without ejecting hard drive

[rob1963]

Tonight's gig was at a venue with a completely toilet sound limiter that tripped four times in the night, and I was thinking about the effects on my equipment.

With my current set up it wasn't much of a problem, as I just re-cued the CDs when the power came back after about 10 seconds.

This got me wondering about what damage this could cause when I've gone digital.

My D2 instructions say you should ALWAYS press the eject button to safely eject the hard drive (in my case this will be an ipod) before disconnecting the hard drive from the D2.

Here's my question. What happens if you're using a D2 with an ipod, and there is either a power cut or a sound limiter trips without you ejecting the hard drive (ipod) first?

Thanks in advance for any help.

[Jiggles]

Shouldent matter. That only applys if you disconnect the hard drive while the units on.

[rob1963]

Shouldent matter. That only applys if you disconnect the hard drive while the units on.

Ahhh...so it is only likely to cause a problem if you disconnect the hard drive, not if the power goes off.

Thanks Callum!

:)

[Jiggles]

Un plugging the D2 from the wall can cause problems in the firmware. Which is highly unlikely! (Think of it turning your PC off at the wall with out shutting down.)

[usless fact] Did you know that the processsor in the D2 supports ethernet :D [/usless fact]

[Corabar Steve]

Should've got a Denon :sj:

If you're that worried, why not get a UPS?

[CRAZY K]

Should've got a Denon :sj:

If you're that worried, why not get a UPS?

Spare generator maybe:D :confused: :confused: :confused:

Yes good point on digital--havent come across this recently and it probalbly takes longer to setup again. I guess a laptop would continue to work as it has a battery, same for IPod if you were using them as standalones.

I agree with Callum, I think losing all power at the same time should be ok--- obviously going on and off regularly is not ideal---not ideal for any of the Disco equipment.

Just makes us Entertainers look a bunch of amateurs.

CRAZY K

[Vectis]

I have a small 700VA UPS that I take to venues with sound limiters; connect the console to it (d2, mixer, DMX desk, radio mic receiver) just to iron out any issues with accidental disconnection.

[rob1963]

If you're that worried, why not get a UPS?

Sorry, but I really don't see how an international courier company would help.

[spin mobile disco]

UPS uninteruptable power supply. But you knew that.
I refuse to work with sound limiters now since switching to digital. And as UPS weigh so much I dont really want to carry one to every gig.
If available run out a long extension to a socket not controlled by sound limiter to avoid problem. Or make it clear to venue any damage caused by limiter is their resposibility and there insurance will be paying for it.

[BeerFunk]

Should've got a Denon :sj:

If you're that worried, why not get a UPS?It's a good idea, they have one on offer at ebuyer for a ridiculously cheap price right now (around £15 I think)

[rob1963]

Should've got a Denon :sj:

If you're that worried, why not get a UPS?


It's a good idea, they have one on offer at ebuyer for a ridiculously cheap price right now (around £15 I think)

What...a Denon?

:eek: :eek: :eek:

[BeerFunk]

What...a Denon?

:eek: :eek: :eek:Yes.

[rob1963]

Yes.

Right...I'm buying it!

:D

[djqacy]

..Powering off D2 without ejecting hard drive..

As I remember I have asked this Q to numark Forum some months ago and Im sure is no problem to Powering off D2 without ejecting hard drive. This will not make any problems to the library on the hard disk.

...But sure the best way is to eject the hard disk first and then power off.

BTW... When is time to power on your equipment at a gig, Do you power on the D2 first or last?

[Corabar Steve]

Sorry, but I really don't see how an international courier company would help.


What...a Denon?

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Do you think it would be at all possible for you to try & go a week without posting glib, nonsensical, off topic comments?

No need to answer (as I think I already know), just try it for once.

[rob1963]

Do you think it would be at all possible for you to try & go a week without posting glib, nonsensical, off topic comments?


Steve,

With all due respect, I've read back through this thread, and the first glib / nonsensical / off topic comment I found was the following one in post #5:


Should've got a Denon :sj:


Lets make a deal...I'll try and do what you're asking if YOU do the same!

:D

[Corabar Steve]

It was a serious suggestion. Denons have no issues with powering on & off with the HDs attached. If you chose to see it as a glib comment it's up to you.

As around 25 - 50% of your posts seem to be of the type described in my last post, it still stands.

[rob1963]

It was a serious suggestion.

How can you say it was a serious suggestion when you knew full well I'd already bought a D2?

That's like someone asking a question about Mackie speakers & someone else not answering the question, but just saying "Should've got RCF" Not very helpful, is it?

Have another look at my original question in this thread:


Here's my question. What happens if you're using a D2 with an ipod, and there is either a power cut or a sound limiter trips without you ejecting the hard drive (ipod) first?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Then have a look at your response:


Should've got a Denon :sj:

Now answer this simple question...was that response on topic or off topic?

I'm still willing to make that deal with you!

[Corabar Steve]

Hence the second part of the post suggesting the UPS as I guessed that you would be unwilling to sell the D2 in favour of buying a Denon (which I would recomend that you do anyway, thus making it a serious suggestion)

Having used a HD2500 for a year or so & also having had the chance to have a play with one of the Cortex models & the now defunct D2, I would seriously recomend to anyone that they get the Denon & get rid of either of the others if they have them.

I see you've chosen to ignore the second half of my last post.

[rob1963]

Hence the second part of the post suggesting the UPS as I guessed that you would be unwilling to sell the D2 in favour of buying a Denon (which I would recomend that you do anyway, thus making it a serious suggestion)

Having used a HD2500 for a year or so & also having had the chance to have a play with one of the Cortex models & the now defunct D2, I would seriously recomend to anyone that they get the Denon & get rid of either of the others if they have them.

I chose the Numark after much consideration, and having done lots of reading about various hard drive controllers & asking people lots of questions too.

From what I've seen of it so far, it more than meets my expectations.

I simply couldn't have justified spending the extra on the Denon...especially as I'm planning to retire from discos in the next few years.


I see you've chosen to ignore the second half of my last post.

And I see YOU'VE chosen to ignore the question at the end of MY previous post!

Ok. Let me address this post:


Do you think it would be at all possible for you to try & go a week without posting glib, nonsensical, off topic comments?


I'm really disappointed that you think up to 50% of my posts are glib, nonsensical & off topic.

Maybe you think they are glib & nonsensical due to the fact that you're more intelligent than me and/or maybe it's partly because you don't appreciate my sense of humour.

As for taking threads off topic, I always try to keep my posts within the forum rules, and if it's pointed out that I've gone off topic, I will apologise & get back ON topic.

I've only ever had a handful of posts edited or deleted, so considering my total number of posts, I think I do a pretty good job of operating within the forum rules & guidelines.

I now have a better understanding of what Shakermaker meant by his recent "snobbery" thread.

From your posts in this thread & a number of your comments to me in others, It's clear you think you're better than me, Steve, and I can only apologise for not coming up to your high standards.

[Corabar Steve]

http://planetsmilies.net/sign-smiley-438.gif (http://planetsmilies.net)

I'm sorry you feel that Rob, but never mind. I can honestly say that I don't care what other members think of me.

While I am guilty on occasion of posting off topic or lighthearted comments, I don't do it every other post.

[rob1963]

I'm sorry you feel that Rob, but never mind. I can honestly say that I don't care what other members think of me.

In that case, you have nothing to worry about :)


While I am guilty on occasion of posting off topic or lighthearted comments, I don't do it every other post.

Neither do I.

As you're moaning about my off-topic posts, is there any chance of getting THIS thread back on topic?

:bang:

[Corabar Steve]

You tell me.

[Vectis]

Generally speaking there are two risks of data corruption caused by hard drives being shut down in an abnormal fashion. Physical damage and Logical damage.

Physical damage is the one you just can't get away from. Damage is caused by the read/write heads coming into contact with a disk platter. Over the years, and particularly with smaller more portable drives, this risk has pretty much been engineered out of the equation, but it IS still possible. Larger (physical) drives and those with more platters are still more susceptible than smaller, less capacious drives. Rotational speed also plays a part in the risk factor.

The other physical damage is caused by shock. If you cause excessive G forces on a spinning drive then contact is much more likely. So don't drop it whilst in use!!

Physical damage as described above can trash a drive period, irrespective of what it's connected to.


Now Logical damage. When data is written to a disk, its file access tables (kinda like an index) also get changed to reflect the actual data on the disk. If a drive is interrupted during either update, there may be a loss of sync between data and index especially if this data is cached pending write. Thats one reason why all file systems have multiple copies of the index or have other means of recreating a corrupt index in the event of a lack of sync. Try killing the power on a windows-based computer and then watch it run a File System Check on boot-up (usually with FAT16 or FAT32 volumes).

NTFS is purportedly more resilient than FAT because of the way it handles these indexes and in all honesty, having worked in IT for many years close to operations, I've never seen a corrupt NTFS volume in normal use. Plenty of FATs though.

Using a USB reader that can only view NTFS volumes as 'Read-Only' (eg the d2) is therefore a good thing as it virtually eliminates the possibility of logical damage. I wouldn't want to be using a FAT volume without good backup.

[rob1963]

Thanks for that, vectis...I found it very informative.

:)