View Full Version : Speaker building and designing thread.
Ok here it goes.
I thought I would start a thread about speaker building and designing.
I have been playing around with some ideas and I have a question. I would like to compare it to the Mackie SRM450 V2 as I have the manual with me so can refer to it.
The Mackie cab has a peak spl of 127db at 1m@1w. Bare in mind that I think this figure uses the reflex bass driver and the horn aswell.
Well I have just managed to get a peak spl of 128db at 1m@1w, just out of two 10" drivers in a standard reflex cab ranging from 75hz to 2000hz
I think thats rather impressive but what do you lot think???
The Mackie cab has a peak spl of 127db at 1m@1w. Bare in mind that I think this figure uses the reflex bass driver and the horn aswell.
Hi Tom - nooo, the 127db is peak @ 1m (450w)
Well I have just managed to get a peak spl of 128db at 1m@1w, just out of two 10" drivers in a standard reflex cab ranging from 75hz to 2000hz I think thats rather impressive but what do you lot think???
If it's 128db @ 1w/1m it's a lot more than impressive, it's unbelievable.
Take a Q7 as a comparable reference - it's also a reflex box with two 10" drivers and does 138db peak @ 1m (400w)
That's about 112.5db @ 1w/1m
nigelwright7557
23-01-2009, 10:36 PM
I have a house full of home build speakers.
Fane Collossus 600WRMS 18 inch.
Eminence Sigma Pro 650WRMS 18 inch.
4 by 10 inch 60WRMS
2 by 12 inch Eminence beta
2 by 12 inch eminence ??
Eminence 15 inch 350WRMS
Some of my early cabs were made with 18mm chipboard but i tend to use 18mm plywood now.
I use Maplins grills cab corners etc etc
All cabs are on wheels for easy transit.
All cabs are on wheels for easy transit.
on the backs, I hope Nigel ;)
Whoops. I missed typed that. lol.
It was 128db peak spl but only 101db 1w@1m which is nothing but still quite good.
Also forgot to mention that the group delay is peaking at 14ms at 73hz which is quite good I think.
I was trying to designing something along the lines of the Q7 anyway. I know that the speakers are not flat but at an angle. One facing up and one facing down. I'm not 100% but its like a "semi horn", (bit like the Void Mycro X where the two 12" drivers are facing downwars slightly) where the sound if hitting the sides of the cab before the sound leaves the cab. I think that plus the processing has something to get those large spl levels. I don't know. lol
nigelwright7557
23-01-2009, 10:43 PM
on the backs, I hope Nigel ;)
The wheels are on the base but the cab can be turned 180 degrees so it is flat on the floor.
I have plastic cabinet corners on the top and bottom so there is no damage to the cabinet itself.
The wheels are on the base but the cab can be turned 180 degrees so it is flat on the floor.
so the wheels protrude to one side :confused:
why not put them on the back like everyone else does?
Tony Scott
23-01-2009, 11:01 PM
so the wheels protrude to one side :confused:
why not put them on the back like everyone else does?
C'mon this is Nigey-baby we're talkin about here!
Wheels on the side and orange fur covered cabs are his 'unique selling points' and trademarks! :D
Dynamic Entertainment
24-01-2009, 12:12 AM
And when his car breaks down he can strap one to each foot without worrying about denting the grill :D
nigelwright7557
24-01-2009, 12:23 AM
so the wheels protrude to one side :confused:
why not put them on the back like everyone else does?
Because then the speaker would be too low too push along.
There is madness in my methods !
One Vision
24-01-2009, 12:29 PM
Because then the speaker would be too low too push along.
There is madness in my methods !
Should that not be methods in your madness? :p
Solitaire Events Ltd
24-01-2009, 12:36 PM
Should that not be methods in your madness? :p
No. ;)
nigelwright7557
24-01-2009, 08:48 PM
Should that not be methods in your madness? :p
I was right the first time ! :D :D :D :D
Jiggles
24-01-2009, 08:51 PM
it is 'theres a method in my madness'. :D
sleah
27-01-2009, 09:29 AM
it is 'theres a method in my madness'. :D
Pedantic:D
LOL I know what Nigel meant, I use the quote that way round myself on occasion, for humour value:p
If I have 3 drivers rated at 8ohms each, is there a way to wire them up so the ohm load showing on the amp is near to 4 ohms ir will it be closer to 2 ohms???
Jiggles
27-01-2009, 05:13 PM
Dont know if it s possible but:
2 in series one in paraell. Comes to about 5.6666:r:
IE
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sleah
27-01-2009, 07:34 PM
If I have 3 drivers rated at 8ohms each, is there a way to wire them up so the ohm load showing on the amp is near to 4 ohms ir will it be closer to 2 ohms???
It is 2.6 ohms
http://www.1728.com/resistrs.htm
Dont know if it s possible but:
2 in series one in paraell. Comes to about 5.6666:r:
IE
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Thanks for that Callum. Bit more than 4ohm but will need to do some working out. :)
It is 2.6 ohms
http://www.1728.com/resistrs.htm
Yeah, I know that already. Should of put that. lol.
Was looking at something close to 2 ohm or 4 ohm but I dont think it can be done now with just 3 drivers. Hmm. Need to have a think.
Thanks for our help though. :)
nigelwright7557
27-01-2009, 09:10 PM
Speaker impedances.
Add the speaker impedances if the yare in series.
If in parallel it is the reciprocal of the sum of the reciprocals !
1/Z = 1/sp1 + 1/sp2 etc etc
Jiggles
27-01-2009, 09:13 PM
errr thats whats all stated above!
nigelwright7557
27-01-2009, 09:15 PM
errr thats whats all stated above!
I was just summing it up in general terms.
Just thought I would post this up.
This is a sim of 2x 12" drivers. The bad news is that they are 1000 watts rms each, so would need at least 3000 watts to get the spl out of this cab.
When I say 3000 watts rms, that means I can turn the amp down and not let it clip or produce distortion. This means I could run the driver as the max input of 1000 watts rms to get a max spl.
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb129/tommyboy6996/ciare127db.jpg
Excalibur
07-02-2009, 07:27 AM
Dont know if it s possible but:
2 in series one in paraell. Comes to about 5.6666:r:
IE
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Unless my maths is wrong, I make it 16/5 =3.2 ohms.
1/(8+8) + 1/4 = 1/R
1/16 + 4/16 = 5/16
Well things are getting a lot better.
Just thought I would post up a new plot. This is a 6th order bandpass cab like the Mackie SWA1501 and the RCF Art 705-AS for example.
The mackies uses a 15" driver, needs 500 watts and gets 128db peak ranging from 36hz up to 120hz.
THe RCF Art 705-AS also uses a 15" driver which needs 800 watts and get 130db peak ranging from 40hz up to 120hz
My design uses two 12" drivers that only require 400 watts rms each, so that matches the input of the RCF being 800 watts. It peaks at 127.9db and ranges from 26hz up to 200hz. If you put in 1000 watts, it then peaks at 128.5db but can only run from 27hz up to 200hz. Much better than a reflex cab for the ultra notes in R'n'B, Bassline ect.
Here is the SPL plot for the cab using just 800 watts input. :)
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb129/tommyboy6996/6thorderdual12.jpg
501damian501
19-02-2009, 12:03 AM
interesting tom...
Just did a few more tweaks and now it peaks at 131db. Lol.
I think this is quite impressive for a cab that is under 100 litres in size. Lol. My aim is to try and keep the size the same as the mackie, db tech and rcf 15 inch cabs. The only difference is that my design goes a lot lower. Lol.
If I can get the cab even smaller then the better really. The only con is that the cab will weigh quite a bit but still working on that.
I think this is the beast to build. The plots seem to be very good with the impedance spikes lower that 20ms I think. Xmax hits at 27hz so could run down to this with a strong limiter in place.
Well after some R&D I have now my final product. This is a single bandpass cab. It uses a single 12" driver which is in a small-ish cab. The cab can go as low as 18hz before hitting the xmax but we dont need that so, you can set the hp filter at 30hz. I would say the cab can go as high as 110hz before dropping off too much so it satill covers a good range.
The driver is only rated at 400 watts but is able to cope with 800 watts rms providing you are not playing music like dubstep. If you are playing dubstep I would say have a mix input of 600 watts, no more.
Below are a few charts.
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb129/tommyboy6996/impedance-1.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb129/tommyboy6996/maxsplat400watts.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb129/tommyboy6996/cdat400watts.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb129/tommyboy6996/maxsplat800watts.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb129/tommyboy6996/cdat800watts.jpg
Daryll
08-03-2009, 04:51 PM
Looks good tom.
Is the cab a front radiator or a horn design ?.
If its a front mounted speaker , getting down to 18hz is excellent ( and I agree you never need to go that low :D )
Daryll
Looks good tom.
Is the cab a front radiator or a horn design ?.
If its a front mounted speaker , getting down to 18hz is excellent ( and I agree you never need to go that low :D )
Daryll
Thanks. :)
It's a bandpass design cab, like the RCF Art sub and the Mackie 1501 but with a twist. The port for the rear chamber goes into the front chamber. Don't know if you understand that. lol.
Inside of the cab will look like this
http://www.caraudiobook.com/images/series_tuned.gif
This is good because the cabs is quite small and goes down really low, but you get reduced SPL, hence only getting 117.9 db at 400 watts input.
18hz is 97.6db lol.
I was hoping to use this cab design for cinema and even car audio. Plus it also saves having to have large bulky cabs that are horn or reflex loaded. I use my car for djing, so I would rather have to move around more smaller speakers than a few larges one, as when packing a car, it is easier to pack smaller items, in my case anyway. lol.
4 of these cabs gives you just under 130db at 1600 watts rms and just under 133db at 3200 watts rms.
You might say well the DB Sub 15 has a max spl of 133db. Well I can tell you that it will only be at a certain frequency.
For example, on the Makie 1501 sub, it has a peak od 128db but if you look at the specs listed here (http://www.mackie.com/pdf/swa1501_ss.pdf), most of the power is only at 50hz to 70hz, what about the rest???
In my design, most of the power comes from 40hz right up to 80hz, before it starts to roll off. So, if you have two if these cabs, it wil be slightly under the 1501 in spl out, but will be louder when playing lower notes as well as the higher notes (up to 110hz).
Ok, so we all know that Peter is a crazy bass head. So with that in mind, i present you the
The cab uses two 18" neo drivers which require 1500 watts rms of power each. Big power for big output. The cab is large but small at a total internal size of 447 liters.
Peter, eat your heart out. lol.
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb129/tommyboy6996/maxsplat1m.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb129/tommyboy6996/-3db.jpg
Solitaire Events Ltd
14-04-2009, 10:25 PM
Have you actually built anything yet Tom?
Excalibur
14-04-2009, 10:33 PM
Have you actually built anything yet Tom?
Maby not, but I'm heading down there tomorrow with three sheets of 18mm ply, two 18" drivers, a litre of glue, a circular saw, and three fully charged cordless drills. :D :D
Have you actually built anything yet Tom?
In short, no, but I have my reasons why I am taking so long.
My ideas always change but I finally decided to stick with one.
I am going for a dual 12 sub cab but don't let that put you off. From the drivers I have decided to go with, this means I can design a small cab, which also means I am able to fit more of them in my car
I will be contacting my supplier shortly to get the drivers orded in.
Things are starting to shape up nicely. :)
Maby not, but I'm heading down there tomorrow with three sheets of 18mm ply, two 18" drivers, a litre of glue, a circular saw, and three fully charged cordless drills. :D :D
:lol:
I will get a price for those drivers. ;):D. I know they will be expensive though. lol.
Excalibur
14-04-2009, 10:41 PM
In short, no, but I have my reasons why I am taking so long.
My ideas always change but I finally decided to stick with one.
I am going for a dual 12 sub cab but don't let that put you off. From the drivers I have decided to go with, this means I can design a small cab, which also means I am able to fit more of them in my car
I will be contacting my supplier shortly to get the drivers orded in.
Things are starting to shape up nicely. :)
Tom. Measure twice, cut once. ;) ;) :D :D
Tom. Measure twice, cut once. ;) ;) :D :D
http://upperjames.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/dog.jpg ;):D
Jiggles
14-04-2009, 10:47 PM
Tom. Measure twice, cut once. ;) ;) :D :D
SO thats where i have been going wrong.
Peter, I got a price for those drivers.
Hold on. Lol.
RRP = £699
I can get them £450 each.
Still interested? Hope you got deep pockets. :lol:
Excalibur
16-04-2009, 11:22 PM
Peter, I got a price for those drivers.
Hold on. Lol.
RRP = £699
I can get them £450 each.
Still interested? Hope you got deep pockets. :lol:
Sir. I lament the lack of attention to detail you display in your posts. You must know by now that I am the sort of person who is willing to pay top dollar for the right product, but your prices as indicated would appear to be taking the mickey. I'm sure you meant to post a figure which is far nearer what I usually pay, ie £4.50. Many thanks.
I can tell you that I am telling the truth in the price. :). lol.
Just a little update, I have orded the drivers and they should be delivered for Monday/Tuesday. :)
Little update.
I took delivery of my new drivers (2x) today. They are only 12" but that makes up 24" of cone space. :D:D:D Just thought I would post a pic of the drivers. lol. This driver is a beast. :D:D:D
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb129/tommyboy6996/DSC_8086.jpg
Just thought I would post a few 3d pictures of the finished cab. Had a bit of trouble with the drivers but its quite good I think.
I did the cab in black just to get a picture of it. :).
Before colour
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb129/tommyboy6996/beforeanything.jpg
Full colour top down view
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb129/tommyboy6996/topdownview.jpg
Side view
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb129/tommyboy6996/sideview.jpg
EDIT: Ohh, by the way, there will also be a grill but I don't know how to make one on the CAD style software. :( lol.. That will be powder coated the same colour as the cab. :)
Just thought I would post up a little progress report.
Went to a local timber yard to pick up some nice 18mm plywood. Got the best sheet I could see from going through them all.
All the wood is not cut up and ready to be drilled, glued and screwed. Just thought I would post up a picture of the cab. Note that this is not held together by anything yet. THis is just to show the size of the cab, which you can see from the picture, its not that big.
Next stage for tomorrow is cutting out the speaker baffle.
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb129/tommyboy6996/10052009020.jpg
rob1963
10-05-2009, 11:33 PM
Looking good, Tom.
Keep us posted as things progress!
Rowleys
20-05-2009, 06:59 AM
hi tom.
any updates mate
hi tom.
any updates mate
Not yet.
All panels are cut and drilled out. Just been so busy recently I have not been able to do more work on the cab. :(
Just taken on another project for someone else who wants a few cabs built. Might put this one a side to build the other ones first. Brings in the money. :)
Solitaire Events Ltd
24-05-2009, 02:51 PM
Not yet.
All panels are cut and drilled out. Just been so busy recently I have not been able to do more work on the cab. :(
Just taken on another project for someone else who wants a few cabs built. Might put this one a side to build the other ones first. Brings in the money. :)
Not being funny Tom, but shouldn't you at least build your first cab before starting to build for other people?
Excalibur
24-05-2009, 03:06 PM
Not being funny Tom, but shouldn't you at least build your first cab before starting to build for other people?
I can see where you're coming from Darren, but I suspect Tom's building from accepted plans/designs, rather than making it up as he goes along. Not denigrating his efforts, but isn't he simply assembling? :confused:
Not being funny Tom, but shouldn't you at least build your first cab before starting to build for other people?
I can see where you're coming from Darren, but I suspect Tom's building from accepted plans/designs, rather than making it up as he goes along. Not denigrating his efforts, but isn't he simply assembling? :confused:
I am not building one of my plans. It's already been designed by JBL. I'm just making the cab.
It's for a pair of car subs.
Really small cab. Easy to build.
Money is money and I need some at the moment to fund other things. :)
I am not building one of my plans. It's already been designed by JBL. I'm just making the cab.
so it's not a free plan then, Tom?
Happy Jack
26-05-2009, 12:18 AM
Good effort!
I am currently having a look at making a pair of bookshelf monitors, a relatively simple full-range, reflex cabinet.
High and high-mid detail / accuracy isn't of any real importance, but we'll need that low kick / snare cutting through so a decent 10 - 12" is a must.
I've managed to acquire a pair of dual concentric Tannoy mid / high drivers, the same found in the old DC2000's IIRC, so I'll probably go all out for the 10 - 12" and look out for a 2nd hand PD or Beyma that can be matched. A cheap 3 way xover from CPC would suffice. I'll be sure to find out what that Tannoy driver is rated at, and locate the T/S before I settle on the low-mid and fire up WinISD.
I doubt I'll have to stray too far away from the X15 plans for a decent pair of monitor speakers. The amp module in the Gemini we use for foldback is a little noisy, so I hope to do away with this as soon as possible.
Here, Tom. If you are after someone to make up the grills for you, I'd contact Markie over on Speakerplans.
so it's not a free plan then, Tom?
In a way it is a free plan. On the website, JBL state that the driver needs a 50L cab which includes the space taken up by the driver and the port too.
Good effort!
I am currently having a look at making a pair of bookshelf monitors, a relatively simple full-range, reflex cabinet.
High and high-mid detail / accuracy isn't of any real importance, but we'll need that low kick / snare cutting through so a decent 10 - 12" is a must.
I've managed to acquire a pair of dual concentric Tannoy mid / high drivers, the same found in the old DC2000's IIRC, so I'll probably go all out for the 10 - 12" and look out for a 2nd hand PD or Beyma that can be matched. A cheap 3 way xover from CPC would suffice. I'll be sure to find out what that Tannoy driver is rated at, and locate the T/S before I settle on the low-mid and fire up WinISD.
I doubt I'll have to stray too far away from the X15 plans for a decent pair of monitor speakers. The amp module in the Gemini we use for foldback is a little noisy, so I hope to do away with this as soon as possible.
Here, Tom. If you are after someone to make up the grills for you, I'd contact Markie over on Speakerplans.
Thanks. :)
Already spoken to Mark ages ago. ;):)
DJ Jules
28-05-2009, 10:16 PM
So where do you go about getting plans for Bass Bins from? I've got a couple of reasonable spec 15" mid/low drivers kicking around and a spare amp and I've no problem with working with 18mm Ply/MDF/etc to put together a cabinet. How do you work out cabinet dimensions, ports, etc? Is there anything "special" you need to consider when jointing the cabinets (can you just use standard butt joints, screwed & glued, or do you need to do anything different for cabs to get a decent result?)
Bear in mind (though you've probably guessed from the above) that I'm completely new to building "quality" boxes, though I've made enough bins for car boots in my time (though the way to work out the volume for boot bins is simply - how big can I make it before I can't fit anything else in? ;) )
Julian
Tony Scott
28-05-2009, 11:18 PM
....I am currently having a look at making a pair of bookshelf monitors, a relatively simple full-range, reflex cabinet.....
.....I doubt I'll have to stray too far away from the X15 plans....
Are you having a laugh, how big is your bookshelf??, X15's are huge!!! :eek: :D
So where do you go about getting plans for Bass Bins from?
www.speakerplans.com/forum
DJ Jules
29-05-2009, 07:11 AM
www.speakerplans.com/forum
I should've guessed that really :) Thanks!
Julian
Daryll
29-05-2009, 02:36 PM
http://www.billfitzmaurice.net/
Daryll
Happy Jack
31-05-2009, 11:43 AM
Are you having a laugh, how big is your bookshelf??, X15's are huge!!! :eek: :D
Indeed! The X15 plan was the closest I have found to the sort of cab I'm after. As I say, I won't be using a 15", nor a pair of 10's or 12's so...
Oh, and my bookshelf is mighty. I have a pair of TMS 5's looking at me right now ;)
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