Denon DN-HD2500 - Problem last night.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Hi all,

Just a couple of things to mention about the system last night. I wondered if anyone else had encountered something like this?

Firstly, I noticed that the 'USB' indicator on the screen was flashing quite a lot. I've never noticed this before and it might be something that happens when you select a track from the external HD? Could it be something else though? Maybe a dodgy USB lead or dare I say it...could it be the external HD itself? The HD itself is a 3.5 IDE housed in an Integral case. I can't remember the spindle speed or anything else and I don't want to tamper with it but I know it's decent as I asked loads of questions on here before I purchased it.

Secondly, and this is probably going to sound silly but it's my only theory. I am no computer expert. Can smoke or dust effect the unit/HD? The reason I ask is that during the evening the system shut down and reset itself halfway through a track. I was using smoke very near to where I was as I was in a pretty cramped space. To me, it's seems the obvious explanation as it happened last week in the same place and again, when I was using smoke. It has NEVER happened before and NEVER happened when I am using haze.

Am I being stupid, barking up the wrong tree etc etc?
The smoke scenario can be sorted easily so can a new USB cable.

Any ideas?
Thanks in advance.
G

[Tom]

Hello Gary.


I had the same problem with mine before I sold it.

Do you have the latest firmware update?

Also I would think about changing your powered usb hub. I had an advent one which was causing problems as you are describing. I changed this for a more expensive belkin one which fixed the problem.

Have you done a defrag recently?

Are all your tags correct?

As for the hard drive I used a freecom one. I did use a normal hd in an external case and had problems with the hd and the power supply so this is why I got the freecom one.


Hope some of this helps.

[Corabar Steve]

My USB indicators flash all the time, there have neem no playout issues though

[Excalibur]

Gary, I think Penmare's having problems along the same lines. ;) Sadly, he doesn't appear to have any guaranteed solutions.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Thanks for the replies guys.
Tom, I have a Belkin powered USB hub already.
Firmware updates....I have never updated the system since I purchased it to be honest so I will definitely check that out.

Everything (USB Hub, HD & Power Supply) is secured and safe in the flightcase so there is no issue with damage. I also did a check on the external HD last night to see if it was getting hot and it wasn't. Am I right in thinking that USB cables ideally like to be secure and that's it? What I mean is, they don't like to be taken out all the time? Would this make a difference and result in a replacement cable? It's a bummer if that is the case as I update my system with Music Manager weekly and so I disconnect the cable from the USB hub in order to get it to communicate with Music Manager.

[Excalibur]

Thanks for the replies guys.
Tom, I have a Belkin powered USB hub already.
Firmware updates....I have never updated the system since I purchased it to be honest so I will definitely check that out.

Everything (USB Hub, HD & Power Supply) is secured and safe in the flightcase so there is no issue with damage. I also did a check on the external HD last night to see if it was getting hot and it wasn't. Am I right in thinking that USB cables ideally like to be secure and that's it? What I mean is, they don't like to be taken out all the time? Would this make a difference and result in a replacement cable? It's a bummer if that is the case as I update my system with Music Manager weekly and so I disconnect the cable from the USB hub in order to get it to communicate with Music Manager.
I think we all have to do likewise, don't we? I have to use my laptop to update the HD connected to the Cortex units in pretty much the same way.

[CRAZY K]

I think we all have to do likewise, don't we? I have to use my laptop to update the HD connected to the Cortex units in pretty much the same way.

Im hoping Tony will give a report shortly.

I rang him yesterday to see if he had any luck but he wasnt in--I thought he was spending Friday sorting it out.

Any luck Tony?

I have already stated I have 2.5 yr old Hard drive that doesnt get used every week but have never had an issue or a defrag.

I have never used updates on the Cortex--I think thats unlikely to be the problem---if it worked before ok it should work now.

The leads might get a bit stressed through coiling but I wouldnt think plugging and unplugging would matter, it happens every gig,

Try new USB leads anyway they cost peanuts.

I have noticed most people using USB hubs.

I never have because I have instant back up with Mini Disc and could replace the Cortex or HD very quickly---basically once the units are running--I just plug the HD and keyboard into the Cortex and thats it.

Is it worth taking the hub out of your set up and testing without it?

Might the HD be on its last legs--they do say every HD has a limited life span--depends on build quality, usage in time, no of boots and of course abuse.

I would have thought it would have been quite erratic if it was on the way out--thats what happened to the one on my PC--definite danger signals:eek:

Try testing your HD with a stand alone device like your PC or laptop.

Also use your back up HD and see how that works---its just a question of eliminating each possible problem area.

Whats your playout back up--is that a USB player--if so use that as an extra back test.

HTH

CRAZY K

[Penfold42]

Im hoping Tony will give a report shortly.
I've done 2 defrag's and 1 retag. It seem to work OK last night when checking gear over but judging by this thread, I think not.


I rang him yesterday to see if he had any luck but he wasnt in--I thought he was spending Friday sorting it out.
Did anyone answer?


Any luck Tony?

I'm trying it tonight....:luck:

So....two Denon's, one laptop and one Cortex.....should see me through.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

I've bought a new USB lead and also a new Advent USB Hub this morning and have tested the Denon out and no problems so far. Saying that though, there is no better way of testing it than in a proper gig situation.

Whilst I was there I also purchased another External HD (Seagate 500gb). The problem I now have is that it is NTFS and from what I've read in the past, the HD2500 won't read NTFS so I know I have to format it to FAT32. I have started to format it but there isn't an option to format it to FAT32??

I have also added the new firmware (1.4.0) to the HD2500 and installed new Music Manager.

Can someone advise as to how I format properly to FAT32.

Here is the display I get as it formats.

Capacity:
465GB

File System:
NTFS
(There is an arrow to select but both options are NTFS?)

Allocation Unit Size:
Default Allocation Size

Volume Label:
Blank

Any help would be awesome. I want to try and get this sorted today so I can then transfer everything so it's then an exact copy of my other external HD.

(I've only got until around 5pm as I am DJing tonight...with...Gary Numan...but I'm using in-house equipment).

[Jiggles]

Have a look for my formatting a Hard drive tutorial.

[Penfold42]

I have also added the new firmware (1.4.0) to the HD2500 and installed new Music Manager.
I would be interested to know how you get on with this.:)


Can someone advise as to how I format properly to FAT32.
Nearly bought a Maxtor 500gb from PC World the other day but it was in NTFS. They said they could reformat it to FAT32 for £28 :eek: , I know that seems a lot but if your pushed for time.
Just a suggestion. :)

(I've only got until around 5pm as I am DJing tonight...with...Gary Numan...but I'm using in-house equipment).

You name dropper..:D ..have a good one.:)

[Shakermaker Promotions]

'Name Dropper'....too right!
It's the only thing that is keeping me happy-ish today!

[Excalibur]

Gary, if youu read Callum's article I think that will help. Failing that, there's a link on the Cortex forum to exactly this task. Personally, I run my drives NTFS, in the belief that if the Cortex can't write to it, it can't corrupt it. :D The only downside I can see is that I can't memorise cue points, but as I've said before, with my style of work, that's no bother. ;) :D
I thought the Denon was now perfectly happy with NTFS? I'm sure I've seen it on the Denon forum.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Yes, I thought I had read it aswell, however, when I hooked it up to the unit (even with the latest firmware installed), it didn't recognise it. It's about 30 minutes away from being complete now by the looks of it.

[CRAZY K]

I've done 2 defrag's and 1 retag. It seem to work OK last night when checking gear over but judging by this thread, I think not.


Did anyone answer?



I'm trying it tonight....:luck:

So....two Denon's, one laptop and one Cortex.....should see me through.

Daves old faithful Cortex will be just the job.

Me--I just use one Cortex--thats enough for peace of mind:D

Did you answer the phone--course not:D :D :D

By the way--what are all these formatting issues the lads are talking about--I just plugged my Cortex into the Seagate HD and that was it--

2 years hassle free gigging, not as many as most--but theres plenty of Country Discos coming through;)

CRAZY K

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Well, it completed the format and still came up as NTFS. I haven't got time to sort this now. I also read Calums document and that was helpful although when right-clicking the HD in Disc Management, it didn't come up with 'Simple Volume' or whatever it is supposed to say.

I'm just going to take it to PC World and get them to do it tomorrow I think.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Rather than repeat myself, been into PC World this morning and they formatted the HD for me to FAT32...and for free.

I have just put this on the Denon DJ forum so if anyone else here can help aswell, it would be cool.

Hi all,

I've been reading this forum for a while and found it both interesting and very helpful. I am hoping someone out there will be able to help me with a problem I am having.

I have a Denon DN-HD2500 and am using an external 250gb hard drive. I have never had any problems with the unit or hard drive at all but thought it best to make a backup HD so purchased another one yesterday, a Seagate 500gb. I have read on this forum that the HD2500 will now work with NTFS but when I connected the HD to the unit via the powered USB Hub, it didn't recognise it. I am no computer expert by the way! Anyway, I went for the other option and decided to format to FAT32. Vista split the HD into partitions of 30gb each...fair enough but I have over 100gb of music so I had to split the folders into the different partitions which was a bit of a pain. I noticed that when I connected the HD to Music Manager, lots of different HD's were displayed so I created a database for each one. When I connected the HD to the HD2500 it recognised the HD but it only recognised about 3500 titles. I have registered around 11,000 in Music Manager so obviously loads are missing.

Is there a way around this?
As I said, I am no computer buff so everything has to be explained to me very S l o w l y.. :lol:
Has anyone else encountered this before and if so, how did you get round it?
In theory, the external HD is connected to the HD2500 and on the external HD, the files have been registered, databases created so I expected the unit to recognise all of the files on it no matter where they are?

Is this just me being dense or is there an easy explanation for this?
Any help or advice would be much appreciated.
Many thanks
Gary

[Tom]

This is how I see it.

You have partitions on your current hard drive but the Denon can only see one of them on the hd, hence it only seeing 3500 tracks out of the 11,000 you have.


If it was me I would format the hd as fat32 and just leave it like that. That would be one hard drive, you then upload the 11,000 tracks you have and because this would be seen as one hard drive, the Denon should see the one hd and find all the tracks.

You can format the hd in my computer, right click on the hd and click format. Select fat32 and continue from there (if you didnt know how to do it). Having said that, I had to download a third party software do convert this for me as xp didn't want to convert my hd from ntfs to fat32.

Just need to give it a go really. :)


Hope this helps somewhat. :)

[Vectis]

I had to download a third party software do convert this for me as xp didn't want to convert my hd from ntfs to fat32.


That'll be because Microsoft don't support or recommend FAT32 partitions bigger than 32GB...

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314463

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Hi Tom, thanks for the advice. That's exactly how I saw it too.
You know what I find weird... the fact that I tried to format it to FAT32 both on my XP Laptop and my Vista Laptop and it wouldn't let me. The guy at PC World was running Vista too and said that he could do it but it would only let him do it in 30GB partitions. "Fair enough" I thought.

Then, I posted the above question on the Denon DJ forums and a guy I worked with years ago 'Gary' gave me the explanation I expected. He said to format the drive using the HD2500 which I did. It then lef the 500GB as one big partition as you also said. I am now 20 minutes away from transferring all the tracks on to it. I will then create a database and connect it to the HD2500 and (fingers crossed), everything should be ok.

At the end of the day, hopefully all of this information may help someone else in the future.

[Jiggles]

Ah the only thing good with Vista :D Able to format to FAT :D

[Tom]

Hi Tom, thanks for the advice. That's exactly how I saw it too.
You know what I find weird... the fact that I tried to format it to FAT32 both on my XP Laptop and my Vista Laptop and it wouldn't let me. The guy at PC World was running Vista too and said that he could do it but it would only let him do it in 30GB partitions. "Fair enough" I thought.

Then, I posted the above question on the Denon DJ forums and a guy I worked with years ago 'Gary' gave me the explanation I expected. He said to format the drive using the HD2500 which I did. It then lef the 500GB as one big partition as you also said. I am now 20 minutes away from transferring all the tracks on to it. I will then create a database and connect it to the HD2500 and (fingers crossed), everything should be ok.

At the end of the day, hopefully all of this information may help someone else in the future.

Keep up posted on your findings. :)


That'll be because Microsoft don't support or recommend FAT32 partitions bigger than 32GB...

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314463

Ahh, ok.

Thanks for posting that. :)

I don't really know all the ins and outs of xp and tbh, I don't really care. :lol:

[Corabar Steve]

I would be interested to know how you get on with this.:)


Nearly bought a Maxtor 500gb from PC World the other day but it was in NTFS. They said they could reformat it to FAT32 for £28 :eek: , I know that seems a lot but if your pushed for time.
Just a suggestion. :)


You name dropper..:D ..have a good one.:)
Tony, they were trying to pull a fast one.

Maxtor HDs cme with MaxBlast software that allows you to format to whatever you want, NTFS or either FAT format withas few or as many partitions as you want.

Gary, use MaxBlast on your Seagate http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.jsp?locale=en-US&name=MaxBlast_5&vgnextoid=7add8b9c4a8ff010VgnVCM100000dd04090aRCRD

As their the same company, it works for both products.

[Penfold42]

Tony, they were trying to pull a fast one.

Maxtor HDs cme with MaxBlast software that allows you to format to whatever you want, NTFS or either FAT format withas few or as many partitions as you want.

:soapbox:

I knew it.....the :Censored:....half wits.....

Go into these places they don't know there :Censored: from thier elbows....
Bleeding kretins.......:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

You ask some silly zit ridden kid "What format is this and can be reformatted and they look at you if you just sprouted two heads....:Censored: :Censored: :Censored: :Censored: :Censored: "

:)

Ah that's better.......I'm off Tuesday to get one as it was only 500gb for £54.

:D

:ontopic:

[Shakermaker Promotions]

All sorted guys!

The FreeAgent/Seagate HD that I bought also has a built in power supply that goes into standby mode when it isn't being used. I thought this may be a problem if I am accessing the other external HD an not using the new one because if I go to choose a file off it, the HD2500 may not recognise it because it will be in standby mode. I looked on the FreeAgent/Seagate website and they said that the standby mode is set to 15 minutes but can be altered to NEVER. I downloaded the software, connected the FreeAgent/Seagate, re-set the standby mode to NEVER and then connected it to the HD2500 and no problems whatsoever.

Very long winded I know but I now have around 350GB of space left to play about with should I need it in the future. I have also secured the external HD in the flightcase using strong, sticky velcro pads.

A last note too - I actually took the time to read through the Denon manual for the HD2500 and there is something there that says not to have the unit too near speakers because of the magnetism and also not to have the unit in a smokey area. On the night that the HD2500 stopped and reset itself (Friday), because of lack of space, my unit was just inches away from one of the speakers. The speaker was actually infront of me on a table and I was right behind it. I was chucking out lots of smoke but I don't think that was the problem now because I remember using smoke the week before and everything was fine.

Sorry to ramble but as I said, this may help someone else out in the future.

[CRAZY K]

All sorted guys!

The FreeAgent/Seagate HD that I bought also has a built in power supply that goes into standby mode when it isn't being used. I thought this may be a problem if I am accessing the other external HD an not using the new one because if I go to choose a file off it, the HD2500 may not recognise it because it will be in standby mode. I looked on the FreeAgent/Seagate website and they said that the standby mode is set to 15 minutes but can be altered to NEVER. I downloaded the software, connected the FreeAgent/Seagate, re-set the standby mode to NEVER and then connected it to the HD2500 and no problems whatsoever.

Very long winded I know but I now have around 350GB of space left to play about with should I need it in the future. I have also secured the external HD in the flightcase using strong, sticky velcro pads.

A last note too - I actually took the time to read through the Denon manual for the HD2500 and there is something there that says not to have the unit too near speakers because of the magnetism and also not to have the unit in a smokey area. On the night that the HD2500 stopped and reset itself (Friday), because of lack of space, my unit was just inches away from one of the speakers. The speaker was actually infront of me on a table and I was right behind it. I was chucking out lots of smoke but I don't think that was the problem now because I remember using smoke the week before and everything was fine.

Sorry to ramble but as I said, this may help someone else out in the future.

Great news Gary, so I dont go cross eyed reading all the posts--in a few words---
WHAT SOLVED YOUR PROBLEM IN THE END?

I often leave my Seagate for a while idling while I use the Mini Disc early doors.

My Seagate sort of goes to sleep when not being used but when you ask it for a track it whirrs a bit----bursts into life and finds the track after about 10 seconds--after that it works normally.:D

Tony, is yours alright now :confused:

thanks

CRAZY K

[Shakermaker Promotions]

I tested the external HD as it was beforehand and I noticed that at times, the HD2500 didn't see it and only one of the USB indicators on the screen showed up even though there were two connected. I turned the unit off and then on again and it noticed it so I put it down to the fact that it was the standby mode cutting in although I have no proof.

Everything in the flightcase is plugged into a 6 way extension socket (Denon, Mixer, Radio Mic receiver, USB hub and 2 x External HD's) so that when I plug it in, everything is powered up. It may have been that I turned off the Denon manually but left the whole thing plugged in and turned on if that makes sense?

I thought I would just get past any problems by adjusting the standby settings so I set it to NEVER, left the unit plugged in and went out for a while. Came home and turned it on and there it was, no problems.

[CRAZY K]

I tested the external HD as it was beforehand and I noticed that at times, the HD2500 didn't see it and only one of the USB indicators on the screen showed up even though there were two connected. I turned the unit off and then on again and it noticed it so I put it down to the fact that it was the standby mode cutting in although I have no proof.

Everything in the flightcase is plugged into a 6 way extension socket (Denon, Mixer, Radio Mic receiver, USB hub and 2 x External HD's) so that when I plug it in, everything is powered up. It may have been that I turned off the Denon manually but left the whole thing plugged in and turned on if that makes sense?

I thought I would just get past any problems by adjusting the standby settings so I set it to NEVER, left the unit plugged in and went out for a while. Came home and turned it on and there it was, no problems.

Ok, no replacement parts necessary--just a procedure thing:D

Glad to hear its all working 100 per cent.

CRAZY K

[Vectis]

Just for the record, in case anyone does ever run a search (yeah, right!) the d2 DOES handle HDDs that spin down after a while by running a 'keepalive' process. I think this was introduced in firmware 1.7 (1.9 being the latest and current).

The WD 'MyBook' drives are renowned for this issue.

[Excalibur]

Just for the record, in case anyone does ever run a search (yeah, right!) the d2 DOES handle HDDs that spin down after a while by running a 'keepalive' process. I think this was introduced in firmware 1.7 (1.9 being the latest and current).

The WD 'MyBook' drives are renowned for this issue.

Now he tells us! :(

It's a topic I've seen discussed before, this "sleep" factor. Seems like another thing on the "To build list" to go with the HDC we designed, is a bulletproof HD with no sleep pattern, fast search time, and rack ears. :D :D

[CRAZY K]

Now he tells us! :(

It's a topic I've seen discussed before, this "sleep" factor. Seems like another thing on the "To build list" to go with the HDC we designed, is a bulletproof HD with no sleep pattern, fast search time, and rack ears. :D :D

Yours has this facility Peter.:D :D :D

I just never realised this was an issue for USB readers.

Mine didnt even need a firmware, update or whatever you call it--as I never wish to touch anything that works perfectly.

For new readers---we both own and use a Cortex HDC1000:thumbs_up: :thumbs_up: a simple solution for simple entertainers;)

Peter, not seen that Minii Disc through my letter box yet:)

regards

CRAZY K

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Just an update for you:

I used the unit twice over the weekend, both for 6 hour sets and encountered NO problems whatsoever. I was using both USB1 (The original backup external HD) and the USB2 (The new external HD) and NO tracks stopped or anything. I will also add that I was using smoke and haze too and still no problems.

I was at a regular venue but not the one where I previously had problems. Space was still a bit tight but the speakers were not too close to the unit. I had a chat with the landlord at the pub where it did happen and she informed me that it could well be the electrics in the venue as they need looking at. That's a bit of a pain in the backside after going to all of the trouble of getting a backup external HD etc but at the end of the day, it needed to be done anyway.

So, case closed I reckon.

[Excalibur]

Yours has this facility Peter.:D :D :D

I just never realised this was an issue for USB readers.

Mine didnt even need a firmware, update or whatever you call it--as I never wish to touch anything that works perfectly.

For new readers---we both own and use a Cortex HDC1000:thumbs_up: :thumbs_up: a simple solution for simple entertainers;)

Peter, not seen that Minii Disc through my letter box yet:)

regards

CRAZY K
Be alert. ;) :D


Just an update for you:

I used the unit twice over the weekend, both for 6 hour sets and encountered NO problems whatsoever. I was using both USB1 (The original backup external HD) and the USB2 (The new external HD) and NO tracks stopped or anything. I will also add that I was using smoke and haze too and still no problems.

I was at a regular venue but not the one where I previously had problems. Space was still a bit tight but the speakers were not too close to the unit. I had a chat with the landlord at the pub where it did happen and she informed me that it could well be the electrics in the venue as they need looking at. That's a bit of a pain in the backside after going to all of the trouble of getting a backup external HD etc but at the end of the day, it needed to be done anyway.

So, case closed I reckon.
The other hard to check variable. :( Glad to hear of your success.

[kjdiscos]

Just an update for you:

I used the unit twice over the weekend, both for 6 hour sets and encountered NO problems whatsoever. I was using both USB1 (The original backup external HD) and the USB2 (The new external HD) and NO tracks stopped or anything. I will also add that I was using smoke and haze too and still no problems.

I was at a regular venue but not the one where I previously had problems. Space was still a bit tight but the speakers were not too close to the unit. I had a chat with the landlord at the pub where it did happen and she informed me that it could well be the electrics in the venue as they need looking at. That's a bit of a pain in the backside after going to all of the trouble of getting a backup external HD etc but at the end of the day, it needed to be done anyway.

So, case closed I reckon.


Maybe invest in a ups, To protect you at the venue if you play there again

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Yes maybe. The thing is, I have set up in three different places in the venue and it was just the one place where it happened where they reckon it may be dodgy so I will stay away from that area until it's rectified.