Microphone Feedback Help

[pineapple]

We need help ! Everytime we try and do a karaoke that the mics are giving us feedback from the speakers and we move the speakers far apart and people start to complain saying they cant here there voice when singing... and we cant turn the sound up because of the feedback from the speakers..

at the moment we are using for the karaoke is... a karaoke player for the mics which gos into the mixer and was wondering of buying a karaoke mixer (pa system) if anyone got any ideas which be greatfull

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

1. Get the speakers up higher.
2. Get the singers behind the speakers.
3. Buy better quality mics.

[pineapple]

we have tryed highing the speakers but the sound comes out rubish also i have been to some karaoke's which use a pa mixer and would it be better ?:confused:

[Sarahjovi]

Are you using wired or wireless mics. Are you controlling the mics separate to the karaoke player. And do you have gain control on your mixer.

I use Kam 1940 wireless mics through an Alesis mixer (with Gain control) we never have feedback! the Trick with the speakers is to have them forward of the singer, but angled inwards and the mic volume turned up loud enough!

It would help if you could set up your rig somewhere you can experiment with the speaker and mic set up!

A floor monitor may help, but if you haven't got your mics set up right, you will still get feedback.

Cheers

Sarah

[pineapple]

Are you using wired or wireless mics. Are you controlling the mics separate to the karaoke player. And do you have gain control on your mixer.

I use Kam 1940 wireless mics through an Alesis mixer (with Gain control) we never have feedback! the Trick with the speakers is to have them forward of the singer, but angled inwards and the mic volume turned up loud enough!

It would help if you could set up your rig somewhere you can experiment with the speaker and mic set up!

A floor monitor may help, but if you haven't got your mics set up right, you will still get feedback.

Cheers

Sarah

We are using wired mics, and the karaoke player as the mics controller on them (sunfly karaoke player) and got a 2 channel mixer

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

What mics are you using?

[mark karaoke]

it sounds like the gain is too high on the mic output--- also as solitaire advises, make sure you have decent mics,you dont need to spend a lot-- behringer do a 3 pack for about £30 and they are great for the job -- also i dont know why but i always find xlr leads are better than jacks!!! dont know why but they always seem to be better if your mixer allows this

[welby]

Hi,

I used to suffer from feedback issues and after some great advice on here I have it sorted.

I went out and purchased two good Shure SM58 mics with XLR Balanced leads. One of these I plug straight into my mixer, and in the other mic input I use a pair of KAM 1940 wireless. Don't use 1/4" unblanced jacks - a nightmare!!

If I need to I can use the other SM58 mic by using a DI box, which incidently you can change the gain into your mixer and also you can lift the earth which helps remove that dreaded ring.

One tip I also took from here is to sightly face the speakers at an angle out. And another good tip, which at the time felt strange, but worked for me was to unplug headphones if you are using any.

With this combination I can provide 4 mics, which is enough for most events. and I always have a quiet word in the "singers" ear and ask politely if they can stand back away from the speakers which helps too.

Good Luck

[A1DL]

as solitaire advises, make sure you have decent mics,you dont need to spend a lot-- behringer do a 3 pack for about £30

:bang:

I don't think £10 mics was quite what Darren meant.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

:bang:

I don't think £10 mics was quite what Darren meant.

Not quite...:D

[Sarahjovi]

We are using wired mics, and the karaoke player as the mics controller on them (sunfly karaoke player) and got a 2 channel mixer

You really need to separate the Mics from the Karaoke player, so you have separate volume control over both.

You definately need a mixer with more channels (and gain control) so you can plug your mics in separately to your karaoke player. Also a mixer with some FX would help. A little bit of reverb or echo helps your singers a lot;)

There is some good advice here, but being able to find your sound levels before a gig will help.

Sarah:D

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

You really need to separate the Mics from the Karaoke player, so you have separate volume control over both.


Not always true though - I started years ago with a JVC player that had mic inputs with separate gains for the mics and that worked fairly well.

Generally I'd agree though.

[mark karaoke]

crossed wires here i think--i wasnt implying that the £10 behringer mics are comparable to sm58's/sennheiser 945's and the like.but considering that karaoke mics tend to get a very hard life these mics are perfectly adequate and having used them for two years now i can honestly say that they do the job perfectly well honest;) ;)
for my own use at gigs i use a 945-but i tend not to swing it around,scream into or bang it to see if it is switched on:bang: :bang: :bang: .so for this reason the punters have to make do with the behringers.

[Excalibur]

:bang:

I don't think £10 mics was quite what Darren meant.

What? :confused: :eek: You mean you can get good ones cheaper? Wow. :D

The Behringers are perfectly acceptable if the punters are not too good, and not kind on the gear. ( Are any punters kind to it? I've not found many. :( )

Guess Darren's meaning something like PG48/58. ;)

All good advice so far, a desk mixer can be a big help, especially if you can get the PA forward, and have a monitor for the singers.

[DazzyD]

:bang:

I don't think £10 mics was quite what Darren meant.


Not quite...:D

I would go for (and have gone for!) the Shure PG48s at £30 each. They're ideal for karaoke. The Behringer ones are ok as disposable units for karaoke. But give any good singers a better mic!


You really need to separate the Mics from the Karaoke player, so you have separate volume control over both.

You definately need a mixer with more channels (and gain control) so you can plug your mics in separately to your karaoke player. Also a mixer with some FX would help. A little bit of reverb or echo helps your singers a lot;)

There is some good advice here, but being able to find your sound levels before a gig will help.

Sarah:D

I would agree with Sarah. Cheaper karaoke players (Sunfly, RoadStar, Mr Entertainer, Sing To The World, even X Factor, etc) are ok for playing out the audio and graphics but they don't cut it for handling the mics as well (in my own experience, of course!). Higher end units (like JVC and Pioneer) are better but give me a mixing desk with onboard DSP effects any day.

Powered mixers such as the StudioMaster Powerhouse / Vision 8 or Dynacord 600 are ideal for karaoke. You can pick up second hand ones for quite cheap.

As for the feedback issues. Turn the gain down, turn any echo/reverb down slighty, angle speaker away from the singers and always use XLR (balanced) connections - jacks just contribute to the problem.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I don't get this business about mics at all.

You provide karaoke. The main business of karaoke is to get people singing. To get people singing using a microphone. Now if the mic is crap quality and you can't hear the singer or it is feeding back, what is the point?

Shure PG48s or 58s are less than £50.

[Excalibur]

I don't get this business about mics at all.

You provide karaoke. The main business of karaoke is to get people singing. To get people singing using a microphone. Now if the mic is crap quality and you can't hear the singer or it is feeding back, what is the point?

Shure PG48s or 58s are less than £50.

And that's a very painful amount of gear to watch some :Censored: :Censored: swinging round on the end of a mic cable, or throwing from hand to hand. ;) :bang: :bang:

Perhaps all punters in your area are:

Superbly well behaved folk who treat your gear with the respect it deserves
Frightened witless by mine host, who has threatened painful recriminations to anyone transgressing acceptable behaviour rules

Or is the gear covered by a "You break it, we replace it new-for-old" policy?



I would go for (and have gone for!) the Shure PG48s at £30 each. They're ideal for karaoke. The Behringer ones are ok as disposable units for karaoke. But give any good singers a better mic! .

That's why you have a Senny or SM58 under the table. ;) :D :D :D

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

And that's a very painful amount of gear to watch some :Censored: :Censored: swinging round on the end of a mic cable, or throwing from hand to hand. ;) :bang: :bang:



So when your punters are screaming down your cheap mics, your speakers aren't affected then?

I'd rather use a mic that I can get a better sound out of personally.

I actually use Shure PG58 radio mics for karaoke and tell people in no uncertain terms to be careful with them. (and yes I do make a big joke of it, but the message goes in)

[welby]

I said to a singer last saturday, please be careful with my mics and what did she do?

Yup you guessed it! dropped it. My shure sm58 and it survived. Built like brick whatsits!

Plus the fact I have a clause in my contract that states: you break it, you pay for it! Haven't put that to the test yet, and don't want to.

[Sarahjovi]

My Kam 1940's have been dunked in a pint of beer and dropped several times, but have survived so far. I tell off the singers severely, anyone who appears drunk or un-reliable gets one of our cheap singing machine mics! (which although cheap, work and sound great! even with a bit of duck tape around the battery compartment).

Cheers

Sarah

[DazzyD]

I don't get this business about mics at all.

You provide karaoke. The main business of karaoke is to get people singing. To get people singing using a microphone. Now if the mic is crap quality and you can't hear the singer or it is feeding back, what is the point?

Shure PG48s or 58s are less than £50.

I'm sure I paid £29 for my PG48s. Must have been in a sale as they're £39 now:

http://www.images2.co.uk/cgi-bin/PG48_XLR_VOCAL_MICROPHONE_ST708035.html

I'd still recommend them for karaoke as well as PA mics.



That's why you have a Senny or SM58 under the table. ;) :D :D :D

I do have several SM58s and two of these:

http://www.decks.co.uk/products/sennheiser/e825s

but my favourite, which only the most reliable singers get to use, is one of these:

http://www.swlighting.co.uk/products/carlsbro-radio-microphone-systems-122/2242.htm

(actually, you can see it better here:)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CLEARANCE-ITEM---CARLSBRO-CMR40-WIRELESS-MIC-KIT-CMR-40_W0QQitemZ110358577212QQcmdZViewItem

I'd rather lose my right arm than lose this. It's the best UHF radio mic I've ever come across (well, under £500 anyway!). It gets used for karaoke, quizzes, speeches, PA work and DJing so I guess it's a good all-rounder. Battery life is good too and I never get any feedback unless I walk right in front of the speaker (which I did once and my ears took about a week to return to normal - won't do that again!).


I said to a singer last saturday, please be careful with my mics and what did she do?

Yup you guessed it! dropped it. My shure sm58 and it survived. Built like brick whatsits!

Plus the fact I have a clause in my contract that states: you break it, you pay for it! Haven't put that to the test yet, and don't want to.

The good thing about the SM58s is if they do get dropped there's a good chance only the round grille will get hurt. Replacement grilles cost less than a tenner:

http://www.images2.co.uk/cgi-bin/RK143G_REPLACEMENT_GRILLE_FOR_SM58_MICROPHONE_ST70 8454.html

so they won't break the bank and you don't have to replace the whole mic when it starts to look worn.

[Excalibur]

I can feel a thread coming on about mic preference. :D

The SM58 corded is one of the most robust mics available. Sadly the radio version isn't quite as bombproof. :( :( :(

[pineapple]

Thanks for the help guys and just buyed a 2 mic pa mixer and will test it out :D but also seen you can buy a feedback distoryer on ebay but just how it gos now

[DazzyD]

I can feel a thread coming on about mic preference. :D

What? Another one??? :eek:


The SM58 corded is one of the most robust mics available. Sadly the radio version isn't quite as bombproof. :( :( :(

Totally agree. The radio one is awful lot more expensive, though.

[Excalibur]

What? Another one??? :eek: .
Hey! Where does it say there's a quota? :p :D :D




Totally agree. The radio one is awful lot more expensive, though.

Yeah, and I've now got one of each, thanks to folk on here. I love my cordless one.

[Ajaysdisco]

but also seen you can buy a feedback distoryer on ebay but just how it gos now

One word of warning about feedback destroyers
They work by cutting certain frequencies so the can make the person sound worse.

But on a plus point they can help when all else fails.

I don’t know what it about people, despite you politely asking them to stay away from the speakers, they always want to stand directly in front of them! ;) :p

[Excalibur]

I don’t know what it about people, despite you politely asking them to stay away from the speakers, they always want to stand directly in front of them! ;) :p

They're like homing beacons to them! :bang:

[DJ Jules]

I don’t know what it about people, despite you politely asking them to stay away from the speakers, they always want to stand directly in front of them! ;) :p

I appreciate a lot of these points have already been made, but copied/pasted from an email I sent to someone else asking the same question a while ago...

If you want to reduce feedback:

1. Get good (ok, not £90 a pop, but at least £20) microphones, you'll always have to turn up the gain un-necessarily on bad ones as the mic wanders away from the singers mouth which will always lead to feedback.

2. Get a reasonable quality mixer, or at least ensure that the mixer in your Karaoke box is up to the job. This'll allow you to adjust the gain on each mic carefully and if you get one with some effects (reverb/echo) will allow you to make the bad singers at sound a little better.

3. Consider the position of your kit carefully. Ideally put the speakers forward in front of where people will be singing, if you can't do this, position them as far away from the singers as possible and angle them slightly away from them. Bear in mind that as you reduce the chances of feedback, you're also reducing how much the singers will be able to hear their own voices so you'll inevitably get to the point where you'll need monitors (and everyone who starts to sing will tap the Mic and ask "is this on?")

4. Good feedback destroyers work by using Digital Signal Processing to analyse the sound going into the mic and filtering out sounds which have already been heard by the mic once (reducing slight echos and eliminating feedback). Good boxes do this really well without affecting the output, bad ones strip whole frequencies out in the process which can lead to some really weird things happening. Another approach which can work is to put a time delay into the line to the speakers which will reduce ear piercing feedback to an annoying echo - it's better to just get rid of feedback though as you will really need to have monitors, otherwise your singers will start getting really confused....

5. Here's the really simple one - always give your singers a quick tour on how to hold the mic (close to their mouths), and another tip I've seen work is to get hazard tape from a builders merchants and tape a rectangle (or a couple of lines) on the floor and tell them to stay inside the lines - at least it then gives them some kind of visual guide (well, as much as singers are "visual" after 10pints on a Friday night). Experience in where to set up the kit in any given venue (screens for lyrics, speakers, decks, etc) can also be key in working out where to put things to gently constrain your customers (e.g if you put your kit in the right places then to some extent you can fence in the customers and stop them from wandering off).

Julian

[Excalibur]

5. Here's the really simple one - always give your singers a quick tour on how to hold the mic (close to their mouths), and another tip I've seen work is to get hazard tape from a builders merchants and tape a rectangle (or a couple of lines) on the floor and tell them to stay inside the lines - at least it then gives them some kind of visual guide (well, as much as singers are "visual" after 10pints on a Friday night). Experience in where to set up the kit in any given venue (screens for lyrics, speakers, decks, etc) can also be key in working out where to put things to gently constrain your customers (e.g if you put your kit in the right places then to some extent you can fence in the customers and stop them from wandering off).
Julian

For some of the ones I've seen you'd need Razor Wire and a Cattle Prod. :bang:

[DJ Jules]

For some of the ones I've seen you'd need Razor Wire and a Cattle Prod. :bang:

That can be arranged...

Did I mention the backup plan? Wrap the hazard tape around the punter and hold the Mic in front of them - then if they want to be heard they HAVE to go where you're leading them :D :D

Julian

[rob1963]

last time I had feedback from my mic, I stared at it frowning & said "If I want your feedback, I'll ask for it"

[JAMdisco]

last time I had feedback from my mic, I stared at it frowning & said "If I want your feedback, I'll ask for it"

Wasn't positive then? :p ;) :D

[rob1963]

Wasn't positive then? :p ;) :D

:rofl:

[pineapple]

good news at the moment its working great now with the pa for the karaoke and with also splitting the speakers far from each other works...but now just need better speakers :D

[DazzyD]

good news at the moment its working great now with the pa for the karaoke and with also splitting the speakers far from each other works...but now just need better speakers :D

You didn't say which speakers you use. I've got a choice of Carlsbro, Mackie, EV or ProLight E115s which I actually prefer the sound to. Somebody on here bought some ProLights a while ago and couldn't identify the make as they're not that common here. I can't remember who it was but I remember him saying he too liked the sound.

[DJMaxG]

last time I had feedback from my mic, I stared at it frowning & said "If I want your feedback, I'll ask for it"

:D