Heavy duty speaker cable

[Tom]

I am currently looking for some 6mm (per core) two core speaker cable.

Anyone know any good places to buy from?

[A1DL]

http://www.canford.co.uk/Products/4547/33-280-CANFORD-MCS-XHD-CABLE-2-core

[Tom]

Is that stuff any good Tony?

[Excalibur]

I am currently looking for some 6mm (per core) two core speaker cable.

Anyone know any good places to buy from?

Is there an Engineering and Welding near you? :sofa: :D :D :D

[Tom]

Is there an Engineering and Welding near you? :sofa: :D :D :D


Well I am an training in electrical engineering so have been seeking advice and my supervisor recommends 6mm as 4mm might have a voltage drop at the power I would be drawing which would be 1500 watts RMS per channel. ;):D

As for welding, I'm sure I could do something with the amp to do this. lol.

[Excalibur]

Well I am an training in electrical engineering so have been seeking advice and my supervisor recommends 6mm as 4mm might have a voltage drop at the power I would be drawing which would be 1500 watts RMS per channel. ;):D

As for welding, I'm sure I could do something with the amp to do this. lol.

As a footnote to anyone who thinks I'm pointlessly taking the mickey, may I say that as long as you can get the conductors safely into the terminals, I've never seen problems caused by people using heavier gauge wire. I have however seen them caused by folk using lighter grade wire. :( :( :( Long extension cables are much better if a large diameter cable is used.

[A1DL]

Well I am an training in electrical engineering so have been seeking advice and my supervisor recommends 6mm as 4mm might have a voltage drop at the power I would be drawing which would be 1500 watts RMS per channel. ;):D


Tom, what lengths are you making up?

[Tom]

Tom, what lengths are you making up?

Up to 30m, just to cover my back. Most gigs I will only need up to 5-10m but since doing a few outdoor gigs, it better to run longer speaker leads than a long extension lead.

[A1DL]

Up to 30m, just to cover my back. Most gigs I will only need up to 5-10m but since doing a few outdoor gigs, it better to run longer speaker leads than a long extension lead.

Tom, here's my advice, (I'm assuming you're on NLs)

1. Make a pair of 10m cables for your regular work. 2.5mm will be fine for the power draw you've mentioned over 10m with no significant voltage drop.

2. Make another pair of 25m cables and buy a pair of NL4MMX couplers, so for your outdoor work you have up to 2 x 35m lengths. To be honest, you won't have any problems with 2.5mm over this distance, although you could opt for 4.0mm. 6.0mm is overkill.

If you make up 30m runs of 6.0mm, believe me you will hate the things at every event where you only need 5m or 10m! 6mm starts to get heavy over 15m... we have trunks of HO73G6 (6mm spne mains) in 25m runs, one extra core doesn't influence the weight greatly - and at the end of an event it aches the old arms and I'll usually be kneeling on the grass to coil & tie them up, especially after doing a few.

Using VZs down to 2r, at a recent job I noticed the effect of voltage drop to be audible using 2.5mm on a 75m run, when comparing at equidistance of 55m to stacks being powered identically on a 90deg. adjacent aspect. But that's nothing a bit more welly from the source can't cure.

[jeff wood]

yeah seems crazy to me too

4mm is fine,

i would suggest 6 x 10m lengths

and 4 couplers..

so you have flexibility on the length if you see what i mean...


ps

you wont be drawing 1500watts through one cable will you ?

remember that you'll prob be using 4 core cable, with separate amps for bass & top ???

[A1DL]

Is that stuff any good Tony?

sorry Tom, I missed your earlier question.

The long answer:

Canford are one of those companies that are so long established and highly respected in the industry that you can safely say, if they stock it, it's a good brand/product. Their own brand products represent excellent value with no compromise on quality - we have loads of cables (signal and loudspeaker) from Canford that are over 15 years old and not one has ever failed. You don't get much better than that! Plus they have resisted any temptation to try to be all thing to all men, by listing all the dodgy brands that constipate the ar$e end of the market.


The short answer:

It's decent cable, matey :)

[A1DL]

i would suggest 6 x 10m lengths

and 4 couplers..

so you have flexibility on the length if you see what i mean...




Whilst couplers give flexibility, they will always represent the weakest link in the signal path from rack to stack. My suggestion of a 10m and a 25m length would satisfy Tom's indoor events with a manageable length cable whilst only having to be concerned with one coupler per run for outdoor jobs, and then only if he needs >25m on a single run.

At outdoor events it is usually impossible to keep all cables totally outside the public areas and if there's something that can become loose, fiddled with, disconnected, etc. then with all the precautions and RAs in the world, it is still a fairly safe bet that will happen!

[Excalibur]

yeah seems crazy to me too

4mm is fine,

i would suggest 6 x 10m lengths

and 4 couplers..

so you have flexibility on the length if you see what i mean...


ps

you wont be drawing 1500watts through one cable will you ?

remember that you'll prob be using 4 core cable, with separate amps for bass & top ???


The only niggle I'd have is introducing two couplers into a line like that. Just me being sceptical about connectors. 4mm ought to run some very serious cabs. I'd make a pair of 10m and 20m cables and two joiners. It would do the same as three 10's but one less joiner.

[jeff wood]

OK,, I'll go with that :)

[Tom]

yeah seems crazy to me too

4mm is fine,

i would suggest 6 x 10m lengths

and 4 couplers..

so you have flexibility on the length if you see what i mean...


ps

you wont be drawing 1500watts through one cable will you ?

remember that you'll prob be using 4 core cable, with separate amps for bass & top ???

Well 2 cabs per side sucking up anything from 1200 to 1500 watts rms per channel, and that would be at 4ohm also.

Separate amps yeah. One for the bass bins and one for the tops.

Was only looking at 2 core. :)


Tom, here's my advice, (I'm assuming you're on NLs)

1. Make a pair of 10m cables for your regular work. 2.5mm will be fine for the power draw you've mentioned over 10m with no significant voltage drop.

2. Make another pair of 25m cables and buy a pair of NL4MMX couplers, so for your outdoor work you have up to 2 x 35m lengths. To be honest, you won't have any problems with 2.5mm over this distance, although you could opt for 4.0mm. 6.0mm is overkill.

If you make up 30m runs of 6.0mm, believe me you will hate the things at every event where you only need 5m or 10m! 6mm starts to get heavy over 15m... we have trunks of HO73G6 (6mm spne mains) in 25m runs, one extra core doesn't influence the weight greatly - and at the end of an event it aches the old arms and I'll usually be kneeling on the grass to coil & tie them up, especially after doing a few.

Using VZs down to 2r, at a recent job I noticed the effect of voltage drop to be audible using 2.5mm on a 75m run, when comparing at equidistance of 55m to stacks being powered identically on a 90deg. adjacent aspect. But that's nothing a bit more welly from the source can't cure.

Ahh I see. Well I thought I would ask my supervisor first as he was there.

Just planning ahead. :)


sorry Tom, I missed your earlier question.

The long answer:

Canford are one of those companies that are so long established and highly respected in the industry that you can safely say, if they stock it, it's a good brand/product. Their own brand products represent excellent value with no compromise on quality - we have loads of cables (signal and loudspeaker) from Canford that are over 15 years old and not one has ever failed. You don't get much better than that! Plus they have resisted any temptation to try to be all thing to all men, by listing all the dodgy brands that constipate the ar end of the market.


The short answer:

It's decent cable, matey :)

Ahh cool. :)

Just that a lot of people use Van Damme and all that so was just seeing what's on the market. :)

[Excalibur]

Just that a lot of people use Van Damme and all that so was just seeing what's on the market. :)

Aw Tom i'm so disappointed. :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

Didn't have you down as a badge junkie. :p :D :D

[Tom]

Aw Tom i'm so disappointed. :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

Didn't have you down as a badge junkie. :p :D :D


Ohh no I'm not at all. I like to be different all the way. :)

[jeff wood]

I use van damme Black, 4mm and can highly recommend that,,

and Tom,,

what do you mean exactly,,

if youre using two amps, then you would use 4 core wouldnt you ?

how do you intend to wire it, im a bit confused now,,,

[A1DL]

Just that a lot of people use Van Damme and all that so was just seeing what's on the market. :)

Vandamme make good cable, indeed we have hundreds of metres of the stuff. But at the end of the day, copper's copper and there are plenty of "just as good" alternatives. The qualities to look for in cable for events are flexibility, ruggedness, flexibility, ease of termination and flexibility. It really doesn't matter what's printed on the jacket (within reason, of course).

"speaker cable" tends to be overpriced, particularly 4-core and 5-core, when compared like for like with HO7 of the same number of cores and diameter. Many companies use HO7 for noise and there's nowt wrong with that.

[Excalibur]

I use van damme Black, 4mm and can highly recommend that,,

and Tom,,

what do you mean exactly,,

if youre using two amps, then you would use 4 core wouldnt you ?

how do you intend to wire it, im a bit confused now,,,

I'm guessing that 2x2=4, if you know what I mean. ;) ;)

[jeff wood]

what you mean hes running two separate lengths of 2 core ???

you know what i mean though ?

most people use 4 core into the sub

then route two of the cores up to the tops via the other speakon socket,,,

[Tom]

I use van damme Black, 4mm and can highly recommend that,,

and Tom,,

what do you mean exactly,,

if youre using two amps, then you would use 4 core wouldnt you ?

how do you intend to wire it, im a bit confused now,,,


I'll openly admit that I'm not all that hot on the cabling side of things in a passive setup as I currently use an active system but this is what I was hoping to do.

I am very willing to learn as always!


1 amp will provide power for the bass. 2 cabs per side wired in parallel.

Another amp will provide power to the tops. This will be kept separate to the bass bins so totally separate cable.

I was led to believe that I can do this with 2 core cable.

[jeff wood]

sorry tom but thats totally wrong...

you dont wire the amps outputs in parallel ..

i can tell you exactly how to do it, but not at this minute because my wife is moaning at me tapping , lol

i will tomorrow, if no one else does before me that is

[Tom]

sorry tom but thats totally wrong...

you dont wire the amps outputs in parallel ..

i can tell you exactly how to do it, but not at this minute because my wife is moaning at me tapping , lol

i will tomorrow, if no one else does before me that is


No, not the amp but the speakers. Speakers are 8ohm each so will wire 2 cabs together in parallel which give a 4ohm load on each channel on the amp. The amp for the subs will pump out 1500 watts rms at 4ohm per channel.

Right or wrong?


Tops will be pumping out around 600 watts at 8 ohm per channel but there will be only 1 cab per channel.

[DJ James Lake]

I would recommend Van Damme Cable like this http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Van-Damme-Tour-Grade-4x4mm-Speaker-Cable-per-meter_W0QQitemZ140347416633QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_C omputing_CablesConnectors_RL?hash=item20ad5ba039&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

I swear by Van Damme its fantastic quality and very flexible so tends to coil very nicely.

[jeff wood]

oh i get cha !!

you're using two pairs of subs,,

so one run of cable for your subs

and another for the tops,,

yeah, youre right,,,

[Excalibur]

sorry tom but thats totally wrong...

you dont wire the amps outputs in parallel ..

i can tell you exactly how to do it, but not at this minute because my wife is moaning at me tapping , lol

i will tomorrow, if no one else does before me that is

I think he means two cabs in parallel per side. Jeff I know what you mean, but only cos I've read it elsewhere. It's neater, it's industry standard, but it's perhaps less easy to understand.

Grrrrrrrrrr. Must type faster.:o :o Was seriously embarrassed and envious at how quickly Tom could send a text on his Pineapple phone. :o :o

[jeff wood]

I think he means two cabs in parallel per side. Jeff I know what you mean, but only cos I've read it elsewhere. It's neater, it's industry standard, but it's perhaps less easy to understand.



yeah i know what toms planning now..

i just didnt know he would be using two pairs of subs..

i mean, you could still do the 4 core cable trick, to save on running two separate cables, but you'de need to add another speakon out to the bottom sub if you see what i mean:)

thats what i would do, and then use 4x4mm cable...

[Tom]

oh i get cha !!

you're using two pairs of subs,,

so one run of cable for your subs

and another for the tops,,

yeah, youre right,,,

Crikey. lol. Got there in the end. lol. ;):D



I think he means two cabs in parallel per side. Jeff I know what you mean, but only cos I've read it elsewhere. It's neater, it's industry standard, but it's perhaps less easy to understand.

Grrrrrrrrrr. Must type faster.:o :o Was seriously embarrassed and envious at how quickly Tom could send a text on his Pineapple phone. :o :o


I do know about 4 core as it does keep things looking nice and neat but the reason I am doing it this way because I just want to keep all things separate, so if a cable was to fail, I can quickly change that 1 cable and not have to spend a few minutes trying to work out what needed changing over.

I know that the chances of the a cable failing is slim but most of us carry back up equipment, even though that the main playout is rock steady.


As for my phone, its a Blackberry. :p;):D

[jeff wood]

well you would just change one cable should it fail,,

if you are running separate cables, youde still need to work out which one had failed..

using 4 core wouldnt make any difference in that respect,,

[Excalibur]

yeah i know what toms planning now..

i just didnt know he would be using two pairs of subs..

i mean, you could still do the 4 core cable trick, to save on running two separate cables, but you'de need to add another speakon out to the bottom sub if you see what i mean:)

thats what i would do, and then use 4x4mm cable...

I do indeed see what you mean. I also see what Tom intends,and why. Both correct in their own way.

Tom, where do you get those Blackcurrant phones, think I might try one. ;)

[Tom]

well you would just change one cable should it fail,,

if you are running separate cables, youde still need to work out which one had failed..

using 4 core wouldnt make any difference in that respect,,

I see where your coming from. :)


I do indeed see what you mean. I also see what Tom intends,and why. Both correct in their own way.

Tom, where do you get those Blackcurrant phones, think I might try one. ;)

Mine is on contract with O2, so you could go to your local O2 store and have a llook?

[Excalibur]

Mine is on contract with O2, so you could go to your local O2 store and have a llook?

Tom, you've got to learn to see when I'm jesting. ;) ;) That's way too complex for an old git like me. :( :o :o :o I'm presently trying to upgrade the heap of crap I've had for 18 months, and it's not easy. :bang:

[Tom]

Tom, you've got to learn to see when I'm jesting. ;) ;) That's way too complex for an old git like me. :( :o :o :o I'm presently trying to upgrade the heap of crap I've had for 18 months, and it's not easy. :bang:

Well you managed to learn how to use a Cortex, D2, Denon or what ever you use. :sofa: ;):D

[A1DL]

Tops will be pumping out around 600 watts

No. They'll be inputting 600 (or whatever) watts to output x dB SPL...

Speakers don't output watts.

[Tom]

No. They'll be inputting 600 (or whatever) watts to output x dB SPL...

Speakers don't output watts.


Whoops. I should know better than that. :(:o.

[A1DL]

Whoops. I should know better than that. :(:o.

yup, I must admit that did surprise me, coming from you, young Thomas :cool:

[Tom]

yup, I must admit that did surprise me, coming from you, young Thomas :cool:

:Lol: :D



I was cutting back some cable at work today and was thinking, is this too thick?

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb129/tommyboy6996/08102009329.jpg







































100% Joke btw :Laugh:

[A1DL]

That looks like 16mm SWA TPE, unless I'm mistaken.

[Tom]

That looks like 16mm SWA TPE, unless I'm mistaken.

I have no idea. I did take this picture also. This cable was used to power a chiller on the roof.

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb129/tommyboy6996/08102009330.jpg

[A1DL]

Yay :) Cable porn :)

50mm SWA TPE.... weighs in at over 3kg per metre and not very flexible.
4 core TPE is used for delta wired (no neutral) installations, i.e. where the load across the three phases is balanced (plant, etc).