Professional DJing

[DJMaxG]

Following several conversations with non forum members, I have heard some different views altogether.

Some are fully established and claim they don't need a "Day Job" as well, and chatting to someone yesterday who has been doing it for years, they said that they preferred being Semi-Pro.

I have noticed a difference in Standards though between
"Fred The DJ" who turns up at the Weekend, and the Professional, and pricing.

The Question of this thread is, Is it worth becoming Professional?

[JTRS]

Any difference in standards (IMHO) is down to the individual person and not whether they are a full time DJ or working as a DJ as a second job.

Just because someone gives up an alternative job to become a full time DJ does not make them more professional or better at it. Although I would agree that some 'Fred the DJ's' don't put much effort in or have high standards it doesn't mean that all 'weekend' DJ's are like that.

JTRS

[DJMaxG]

Just because someone gives up an alternative job to become a full time DJ does not make them more professional or better at it

I was referring to mainly a wide field / Majority of Semi's, and a few Party Shots I have seen on Facebook.

[Jonny Boy]

Short answer: it's ALWAYS worth BEING Professional. Especially if you want to run a successful business. And if you're soley going to work as a DJ, it's all the more important.

I am always puzzed by the definition of "Professional." As an entertainer who is also employed by someone Mon-Fri, by some definitions that makes me a Semi-Professional, which i find and irksome term, as if I only half-care about the entertainment job.

Rather, I define "Professional" as the way someone conducts themselves while doing the job, regardless percentage of time they spend doing it/how much reliance as a source of income.

In my book, one is either amateurish, or professional.

(SOrry if this has come over as defensive!) :zip:

[BeerFunk]

'Professional' means you get paid to do a job, standards are effectively irrelevent. However, I think the term has transformed to mean working manner, practice and conduct.

[rob1963]

Some are fully established and claim they don't need a "Day Job" as well

That's me! :D

To be honest, I think the reason many part-timers don't go full time is because they couldn't earn enough to live on. After all, most discos are only out one or two nights a week.

There are ways around this, though. One is to have other DJs working for you and another is to have your finger in other pies (ideally within the entertainment industry), just like I do with the quiz nights. I'm already out working 4 or 5 nights a week before I even THINK about discos.

I'm also in the fortunate situation of only having myself to support & not having any debts, so my low monthly outgoings are a big advantage.


The Question of this thread is, Is it worth becoming Professional?

That depends entirely on your interpretation of the word professional, which is probably one of the most mis-understood words around.

For example, one of the definitions is Performed by persons receiving pay, in which case £60 quid Sid's & all cowboys are professional...unless they're working for nothing, of course.


Any difference in standards (IMHO) is down to the individual person and not whether they are a full time DJ or working as a DJ as a second job.

I disagree.


Just because someone gives up an alternative job to become a full time DJ does not make them more professional or better at it.

That's not ALWAYS the case, though.

I used to have a daytime job. That meant getting up early, extra stress, less time to spend on my own business & the fact that I could never completely switch off from the daytime job.

When going full time, I started providing a better service, as I was less stressed and could put 100% of my time & effort into the business rather than 50%. I am also more efficient, as I'm here in the daytimes to answer phone calls & emails and to do & send off paperwork.

[pagan_flame]

I run 2 businesses - a Monday - Friday business and then, as Fred The DJ, I 'turn up at weekends'.

By 'turning up at weekends', I don't have to work evenings or weekends on my main business.

By having a 'Day Job', I avoid having to go out DJing 3-4 nights a week (and the associated divorce that would come with that work schedule).

By combining the two, I make a decent living without working excessive hours, and still find time off for myself and to spend with my wife.

As I only usually have 1 booking per week, I don't need to be at home every day to deal with the paperwork and preparation for the next gig.

And --- No-one is going to book me if I advertise myself as an Amateur DJ, now are they? :confused:

[Larry B Entertainment]

By combining the two, I make a decent living without working excessive hours, and still find time off for myself and to spend with my wife.


Same here. I do a day job as I enjoy it and I wouldnt want to be out 3 - 4 times a week, besides there isnt the work round here for that. Plus I like the odd night in with the missus and I have time for my production and recording.
I still put a lot of effort into the discos and plan ahead, I have a disco at the end of November and I have already downloaded the tracks they have asked for that I didnt already have.
Just because I only DJ at the weekends doesnt mean my standards are any less than fulltimers.

[rob1963]

As I only usually have 1 booking per week, I don't need to be at home every day to deal with the paperwork and preparation for the next gig.

What about answering phone calls which are booking enquiries?

[Creature]

Djing is my main job and has been for the last 5 years. I also do some MCing to help make it a bit more viable.

this year is teh 1st year I'm gonna make a profit, in fact if it wasnt for the wife having a job I would have to packup ..... or would I ?

This year has been a boon for me, ive been out for most fridays & saturdays and often wed & thurs as well, and teh rest of teh year is looking promising as well.
nope Id persevier as i love what I do.

As for next year - a week on sat I am hoping to get confimed 12 rock nights ata nite club and with what I already have booked in will mean the disco will again be in profit :)
But once again not much work in my hometown so it looks as if im gonna be notching another 15000 plus miles on teh van & car.

[rob1963]

I do a day job as I enjoy it and I wouldnt want to be out 3 - 4 times a week

This shows how we're all different, because having done a day job for 20 years, there's no way I'd ever go back to that.

I'm now happier than ever before, as I'm my own boss, more relaxed, virtually stress free and work far less hours than I did before...but for more money.

There's no comparison. My only regret is not going self-employed sooner.

[pagan_flame]

What about answering phone calls which are booking enquiries?

I cant take the call as I'm giving a driving lesson, usually; I return any missed calls as soon as I can - but usually I miss them and lose the booking.

However, I have been out pretty much every Saturday that I have wanted to be this year, and not for 60 quid a night either.

If people are going to give up after the first unanswered call, they are commonly just phoning around for the cheapest price, which is not work I am interested in anyway.

[DJMaxG]

I cant take the call as I'm giving a driving lesson, usually; I return any missed calls as soon as I can - but usually I miss them and lose the booking

Are you an ADI then ? :rofl:

That's no good then if you loose the booking :o

Perhaps having a call divertion/answer phone system, or have a close friend/relative answering the Phone would work?

[rob1963]

I return any missed calls as soon as I can - but usually I miss them and lose the booking.

Which is not a problem you'd have if you were full time rather than part time, as I stated in a previous post.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

I have to say Im very lucky as in the day job Im pretty much my own boss. Ive had taken an hour or so off work to do client meetings before and generally how many of the full time djs are working during the daytime during the week. It is a juggling act mind but keeps me busy and least Im in a rock solid industry thats remained untouched by the recession.

[pagan_flame]

Are you an ADI then ? :rofl:

That's no good then if you loose the booking :o

Perhaps having a call divertion/answer phone system, or have a close friend/relative answering the Phone would work?

Yes I am an ADI... I'm glad that you find it so funny. I laugh all day long as I am driven around by 17 year old girls who pay me £25 an hour for the privilege. :p

I do have call divert to my mobile, however the penalty for being on a mobile phone while supervising a learner is the same as while driving yourself (3 points)... and if I get 6 points then I lose my ADI badge for 3 years and have to re-qualify afterwards.

So - Options:

1. Fulltime DJ - out 4-5 nights a week, including Fri, Sat and Sundays. Divorce my wife, have no friends and no social life of any kind. Burn out in a year.

2. Fulltime ADI - working 2-3 evenings a week and 7 days a week. Divorce my wife, have no friends and no social life of any kind. Burn out in 6 months.

3. (Loike Wot I Am Doing Now) - ADI work, no starting before 10am, finished by 4pm, maybe a couple of evening lessons per week but at least one afternoon off per week, no weekend work of any kind... add in a Saturday night black tie gig for £250 - £300 and there's the £30k a year as per the Driving Instructor TV adverts but without the burnout / divorce / social exile that comes with 1. and 2.

[simonp]

Which is not a problem you'd have if you were full time rather than part time, as I stated in a previous post.

I'm a full time professional DJ, and I still miss calls - it's called the real world ;) :p :D

[pagan_flame]

Which is not a problem you'd have if you were full time rather than part time, as I stated in a previous post.

It's not a problem at all if I lose a booking. I'm fully booked already, for every night that I want to work. As I stated in a previous post.

As a part-timer, I only need one booking per week, not 4-5 that a fulltimer needs.

[rob1963]

As a part-timer, I only need one booking per week, not 4-5 that a fulltimer needs.

Fair enough, although it's worth pointing out that most (and sometimes all) of my 4-5 weekly bookings merely involve spending a couple of hours chatting to people in a pub, and not only getting paid for it but earning the same as I used to from a full 8 hour (often stressful) day working for someone else...and that's without taking into account all the free drinks.

Unlike many, I can understand at the advantages and disadvantages of being part time AND full time...as I've done both, and hell will freeze over before I go back to working in the daytimes for someone else.

[Jonathan Ford]

To be frank, and with all due respect to those that do, I can't think of anything worse than doing this full time. In the mid-90's when I was in radio and doing this, I would've loved to make a full time living at it. Now, with a wife and two kids, working close to 100 hours a week without the disco...it's only the money that motivates me to bother at all.

[Leicester Ben]

I love running the business full time, it gives me a fantastic lifestyle!

I get paid way more than any of my mates and I actually enjoy my job - what more could I want??

Oh yeah - weekends off work :) - I'm working on a master plan for that which will be in place for the start of 2011.

[Tony Scott]

What about answering phone calls which are booking enquiries?

I respond to email within 15mins with my blackberry, mobile calls are no problem and landline calls are handled by the friendy girls at 'The Party Shop': 01305 775579....

I have a full time job as a Boiler Technician which I love and wouldn't give up as it's well paid, interesting and enables me to do the DJing thing without worrying too much about the money side of things. I love DJing and always have but going out once a week suits me and my family just fine! :)

The DJ service I provide for my clients is personal, professional and hard to beat IMO.........read my unsolicited feedback for proof: http://www.partyshopdisco.co.uk/thanks :D

Max not all "Fred(Tony) The DJs who turns up at the Weekend" are the same!!!

[rob1963]

I'm a full time professional DJ, and I still miss calls - it's called the real world ;) :p :D

Indeed, but you presumably miss less calls than if you had a day job working for someone else?

I certainly do!


To be frank, and with all due respect to those that do, I can't think of anything worse than doing this full time. In the mid-90's when I was in radio and doing this, I would've loved to make a full time living at it. Now, with a wife and two kids, working close to 100 hours a week without the disco...it's only the money that motivates me to bother at all.

And I can't think of anything worse than working 100 hours a week (for ANY money!).

It takes me well over a MONTH to work 100 hours!


I love running the business full time, it gives me a fantastic lifestyle!

I get paid way more than any of my mates and I actually enjoy my job - what more could I want??

Spot on Ben.

Same here!

:D


The DJ service I provide for my clients is personal, professional and hard to beat IMO.........read my unsolicited feedback for proof: http://www.partyshopdisco.co.uk/thanks :D


I bet I could give you a good run for your money, as I appear to have more than you from this year, and I've probably done less discos than you!

;)

[Tony Scott]

I bet I could give you a good run for your money, as I appear to have more than you from this year, and I've probably done less discos than you!

;)

I'll have to update my Testimonials page then Rob, got more from this year to add yet! :D :D :D

[DJMaxG]

Yes I am an ADI... I'm glad that you find it so funny. I laugh all day long as I am driven around by 17 year old girls who pay me £25 an hour for the privilege. :p

You won't have got the Joke there, I know 2 Instructors. One is a Friend's Parent, and the other being My Instructor.

I found myself going into the hundreds for Professional Tuition, and told her to her face that Driving Lessons are a waste of money, just to see her reaction really, not that I totally thought it. (Parent of Friend, not My Instructor)

But the reason why I didn't learn with the AA, was the £25 price tag
(You may be a Franchisee, I'm not sure)

which discounts are granted for block bookings, but the whole call centre experience and having to wait several days on top of everything else wasn't worth it at the time, I just wanted to speak to the instructor(s) direct, hence going Private.

The main thing that made me laugh is just that a few of you have Day Jobs as well, I was kind of expecting them to be on the Tills at Tesco's, but it's surprising to find out differently, like Tony is a Boiler Technition. :approve:


and a decnet Wife/Husband won't divorce you just because you're trying your best at your career, I would be happy for anyone who puts their heart into something.

[ppentertainments]

As I thought this appears thread is going along the lines of

Full Time = Professional
Part Time = A bit extra money and unprofessional

Which of course is total rubbish.

[Leicester Ben]

Full Time = Professional
Part Time = A bit extra money and unprofessional

Which of course is total rubbish.

It sure is rubbish, the DJ's that I use are accountants, teachers, web designers, printers, full time DJ's, PAT Testers, deliver drivers, etc etc

Are these DJ's good = yep
Do I get great feedback about them = Yep
Do they have great set ups = Yep

[Pe7e]

and a decent Wife/Husband won't divorce you just because you're trying your best at your career, I would be happy for anyone who puts their heart into something.

That's something else you don't appear to know much about then Max.

[jc light and sound]

I think its all about if the lifestyle suits and you can live of the money,i am a full time professional dj but know many other djs who work and have fantastic riggs and really good at what they do, but they either like the extra money of working in the week or cant get enough work to justify going full time
It is hard, theres a lot of us out there i think as the years go on its becoming more professional but thats gos if your full time or part time.
I suppose with my situation i hire equipment to various contracts that we have and so find work during the week i think if i didnt have that i may well consider part time to fill the gaps and earn some more money.

[rob1963]

I'll have to update my Testimonials page then Rob, got more from this year to add yet! :D :D :D

Me too! ;)


As I thought this appears thread is going along the lines of

Full Time = Professional
Part Time = A bit extra money and unprofessional

Which of course is total rubbish.

In case that's aimed at me, that's not what I said.

My point was that full timers CAN (but not always DO) provide a better service as they can devote 100% of their time, effort & energy to the business rather than 50% like part timers.

It's also more important for them to be professional, as they need the repeat bookings & recommendations due to the fact that they have no other income.

How many £60 Sids or cowboys do you think are full time?

[CRAZY K]

Fair enough, although it's worth pointing out that most (and sometimes all) of my 4-5 weekly bookings merely involve spending a couple of hours chatting to people in a pub, and not only getting paid for it but earning the same as I used to from a full 8 hour (often stressful) day working for someone else...and that's without taking into account all the free drinks.

Unlike many, I can understand at the advantages and disadvantages of being part time AND full time...as I've done both, and hell will freeze over before I go back to working in the daytimes for someone else.

At this precise moment Rob you would find that impossible.

( Daytime job working for someone else job that uses your skills )

Unless you like stacking shelves of course:bang:

As one of my sons is currently finding out:eek:

Be very glad you are your own boss and cant be made redundant:D

CRAZY K

[rob1963]

Be very glad you are your own boss and cant be made redundant :D

Indeed I am!

That's another advantage of being self employed...as you're not very likely to make YOURSELF redundant!

:D :D :D

[Babybob]

What would happen Rob if you met someone who swept you off your feet, fell madly and deeply in love and therefore couldn't devote your usual 100% to your business.
Don't say it will never happen because you never know......

Anyway, some sacrifices may have to be made, how would you deal with it?

;)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I am very happily married with 2 kids, and a lot of other interests and can still devote 100% to business.

I don't really get that point? :confused:

[Babybob]

Maybe because you have been with your wife from the start (or thereabouts) of your business and she accepts that it is part of your family life.
But if you are single and just meet someone they will want to spend some more time with you and working 5-6 nights a week could cause some problems at the start of a relationship........something may have to give, will Rob's normal rational businesslike thinking go out the window. Or will he put his business first and maybe miss out on unbridled love and happiness. ;)

This is meant for anyone in Rob's position and is not a dig at him in any way.

[rob1963]

What would happen Rob if you met someone who swept you off your feet, fell madly and deeply in love and therefore couldn't devote your usual 100% to your business.

I'd still be here most of the time in the daytimes to field calls & emails though, so it wouldn't make that much difference, whereas having a day job as well would make a BIG difference, as that would reduce the time I could spend on my business by about 12 hours a day.


I am very happily married with 2 kids, and a lot of other interests and can still devote 100% to business.

I don't really get that point? :confused:

Allow me to explain.

When I was part time & had a day job, I got up early, left for work & didn't get back until about 6pm. Therefore, anyone who phoned in the daytime with a booking enquiry would be confronted with my answerphone. Many people hate answerphones or voicemails and would rather hang up than leave a message. I therefore lost a number of bookings, as I was only able to devote 50% of my time to my business. Now I'm full time, it's virtually 100%. Big difference!


But if you are single and just meet someone they will want to spend some more time with you and working 5-6 nights a week could cause some problems at the start of a relationship........something may have to give, will Rob's normal rational businesslike thinking go out the window. Or will he put his business first and maybe miss out on unbridled love and happiness. ;)

Business ALWAYS comes first, because without it I have no money to pay the bills & live (or to retire early)...whereas I CAN live without a girlfriend. For the record, I am enjoying more happiness now than ever before!

[Leicester Ben]

As a side note - how come in the examples above if your a full time DJ its assumed that you are working 4,5,6 nights a week.

I typically work 2 and am full time!

[DJWilson]

As a side note - how come in the examples above if your a full time DJ its assumed that you are working 4,5,6 nights a week.

I typically work 2 and am full time!


Rob does Quiz Nights etc as well as Discos.

[NKR]

Some are fully established and claim they don't need a "Day Job" as well, and chatting to someone yesterday who has been doing it for years, they said that they preferred being Semi-Pro.

I have noticed a difference in Standards though between
"Fred The DJ" who turns up at the Weekend, and the Professional, and pricing.

[/B]
I have not been able to read whole thread as on a mobile. As a part timer i have noticed this comment made before associating part time with unprofessional. It seems a bit of a sweeping statement as my service, gear and ability would stand up to a full time operator. I am part time as i could not make enough to give up the day job.

[pagan_flame]

You won't have got the Joke there, I know 2 Instructors. One is a Friend's Parent, and the other being My Instructor.

I found myself going into the hundreds for Professional Tuition, and told her to her face that Driving Lessons are a waste of money, just to see her reaction really, not that I totally thought it. (Parent of Friend, not My Instructor)

But the reason why I didn't learn with the AA, was the £25 price tag
(You may be a Franchisee, I'm not sure)

So - you didn't learn with the AA because you thought they were too expensive; and instead went with the cheapest option you could find?

And - if someone phoned you up and told you that your DJ service was too expensive, you'd lower your price to 60 quid, would you?

I work 100% for myself, I have my own driving school and pay nothing to anybody for the privilege. I charge the same price as the AA / Big School of Motoring because I am good at what I do.

If any one of my pupils said to my face that driving lessons were a waste of money, I would humour them by not letting them give me any more of their money for lessons, and let them find out for themselves how to pass the driving test. In the last fortnight I have had 2 different parents phoning me up for lessons for their offspring, as they have failed their driving tests due to the poor tuition given to them by their previous (major franchise) instructors.

(Sorry for the late reply - I have been spending last night and today with my wife before 'turning up' for my weekend gig. Still, I'm home nice and early; that's the good thing about being part-time, you just have to shut down your laptop full of illegal downloads, unplug the red Soundlab speakers, take the Maplins lights off the top and load it all into the driving school hatchback in 5 minutes!)

[simonp]

have been spending last night and today with my wife before 'turning up' for my weekend gig. Still, I'm home nice and early; that's the good thing about being part-time, you just have to shut down your laptop full of illegal downloads, unplug the red Soundlab speakers, take the Maplins lights off the top and load it all into the driving school hatchback in 5 minutes!

:Laugh: Quality :lol:

[DJMaxG]

So - you didn't learn with the AA because you thought they were too expensive; and instead went with the cheapest option you could find?

My Instructor is a Grade 6 with over 18-22 years of experience and a decent pass rate. This was backed by a DSA Former Examiner who was conducting tests for several years.

It was My Friend's Mother (Instructor - Very Good) that I said that driving lessons was a waste of money to; like I said before, it was mainly to hear her reaction. (expensive is what I should have said, not 'waste of money')

I meant From My POV , it was a waste of money, as it would be for a Student.



And - if someone phoned you up and told you that your DJ service was too expensive, you'd lower your price to 60 quid, would you?

I may consider it, the answer wouldn't be an immidiate No, but then again, it's unlikely that anyone being it for a main income would say 'Yes'.



I work 100% for myself, I have my own driving school and pay nothing to anybody for the privilege. I charge the same price as the AA / Big School of Motoring because I am good at what I do.

Good on You! :approve:
You are not paying the heavy Franchise fees, and are advertising Youself rather than a big name, which You are part of (making money out of You).



In the last fortnight I have had 2 different parents phoning me up for lessons for their offspring, as they have failed their driving tests due to the poor tuition given to them by their previous (major franchise) instructors

I have heard that some of the Franchises are terrible, and some only offer discounts as the money (more of which) is coming out of the Instructors, and some are also very supportive of Pink Badge holders, but once they turn green, they don't care so much. Loads of stories, and issues.

My Instructor charges £20 per block or £22 per lesson, that's a saving of £5.00, which soon adds up.

I wasn't so aware just how bad the Franchises can be, so it's lucky I chose to go Private, otherwise I'd potentially be in an even worse situation.



(Sorry for the late reply - I have been spending last night and today with my wife before 'turning up' for my weekend gig. Still, I'm home nice and early; that's the good thing about being part-time, you just have to shut down your laptop full of illegal downloads, unplug the red Soundlab speakers, take the Maplins lights off the top and load it all into the driving school hatchback in 5 minutes!)

My Previous statements/questions were made on the basis of working DJs with Ameteur Standards, there are decent ones out there.

You knew this, I could tell by your comment above.

[Tony Scott]

....(Sorry for the late reply - I have been spending last night and today with my wife before 'turning up' for my weekend gig. Still, I'm home nice and early; that's the good thing about being part-time, you just have to shut down your laptop full of illegal downloads, unplug the red Soundlab speakers, take the Maplins lights off the top and load it all into the driving school hatchback in 5 minutes!)

Nah true part timers have the blue Soundlabs, you're practically a pro using the red ones! :D