Credit Crunch Wedding DJ.

[Twinspin]

Last week. I took two good wedding bookings both good paid gigs. Sent the booking forms and contracts out to the clients. Both the clients send back their paperwork along with the deposit

starting this week ive lost both gigs in one day because there is someone out there willing to do them for a third of the price when ive actually secured the booking.

and ive lost both bookings. I cant take the deposits off them because the bookings arent within the time where they will lose their deposits.
there is more than 2 months before the weddings.

Anyone got the number for the Inland revenue to find out if they pay their taxes :eek:

[Vectis]

Sorry to hear about the cancellations BUT you really want to be taking a look at those Ts & Cs :eek:

Change "Deposit" for "Non Refundable Booking Fee" and at least you get to keep something for your trouble. :o

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Sorry to hear about the cancellations BUT you really want to be taking a look at those Ts & Cs :eek:

Change "Deposit" for "Non Refundable Booking Fee" and at least you get to keep something for your trouble. :o

What he said....

[Charlie Brown]

:agree:

[Twinspin]

thanks lads.

I have been making some changes to the terms anyway. So ill have to change that. There is something in my terms about them losing a deposit if cancelled within 8 weeks (4 weeks they have to pay full amount) thats how it was.

Also... I had to change my terms of payment for the final balance after the deposit. It was originally on the night before the entertainment starts but changed that to 2 weeks before now.

[Vectis]

They hand over the NRBF (deposit) to secure the date. Once it's handed over, they never get it back no matter what.

In my Ts & Cs cancellation over 30 days - they lose the NRBF
30 - 15 days - they lose the NRBF and I invoice 50% of the balance
14 days or under - they lose the NRBF and I invoice the whole balance

Postponements I tend to treat on a case by case basis, but the Ts & Cs state that if their revised date is already fully booked, it's treated as a cancellation.

If anyone books short notice (ie within 30 days) it's the full amount upfront with no refunds.

Hope these help :)

[rob1963]

I cant take the deposits off them because the bookings arent within the time where they will lose their deposits.
there is more than 2 months before the weddings.


Sorry to hear about the cancellations BUT you really want to be taking a look at those Ts & Cs :eek:

Change "Deposit" for "Non Refundable Booking Fee" and at least you get to keep something for your trouble. :o

I agree with Vectis...not so much with what you call the deposit, but with changing your terms so that all deposits are non-refindable.

That's what I have in my own terms, so once I've got their deposit, it's mine, regardless of when the gig is or whether they cancel.

The other advantage is that they're less likely to cancel in favour of a cheaper disco in the first place.

[Dynamic Entertainment]

13 Cancellations of this contract must be in writing. If this contract is cancelled within eight weeks of the function date, then any advance payment will be retained, and a further amount of fifty percent of the total booking fee will be payable. If the cancellation is within thirty days of the performance then the whole of the agreed fee will be payable.


Feel free to rob... :)

[Shakermaker Promotions]

If you say DEPOSIT then the customer will think that they can get it back if they cancel. A BOOKING FEE is totally different! They pay a booking fee to secure your services and the date. You pay a booking fee on concert tickets etc so look at it that way.
Your Terms & Conditions sound like they need a full makeover.

[Twinspin]

The wedding gigs i took there was 70 odd days till the first wedding ... and about another 3 weeks after that on the other booking.

8 weeks - reservation fee
4 weeks - the whole balance - thats how i had them set.

[Dynamic Entertainment]

I would seriously go down the lines of what me and Martin said.

If you get a cancellation at 5 weeks, all you keep is the NRBF, or reservation fee as you put it (i would go for Non-Refundable Booking Fee - more direct and easy to understand).

If you have that gap between 8-4weeks as NRBF & 50% of the cost, you get more money back.

Ask yourself how likely it is to refill that date thats only 5 weeks away...

[Twinspin]

the cancellation terms have never applied until now. Because since ive never had anyone cancel in the last few years ive used terms and conditions.

But i suppose its come to into the light that the cancellations clause in the contract does need changing.

[Vectis]

You need to take a look at your marketing costs to ascertain how much it costs you per converted lead - not just in advertising costs but in the amount of time you need to invest to land each customer.

That's how much your NRBF should at least cover.

For example, if over the course of the year you spend £1000 on directory listings, business cards and flyers etc. then maybe £500 on a wedding fayre and say 50 hours chatting to potential customers in a pre-sales capacity, and you land 100 gigs. If you value your admin time at a very conservative £10 per hour then your conversion costs are £20 per gig. Add to this another 30 minutes per gig for paperwork, some printer ink, an envelope and a few sheets of paper, a stamp, bank charges (say 3%) on a typical £300 fee and that's approaching another £10.

That's how much money you've wasted when you get a cancellation.


If you do lots of pre-sales face-to-face meetings (like me) then it's not inconceivable for a cancellation to cost £50+.

[rob1963]

If you say DEPOSIT then the customer will think that they can get it back if they cancel.

Not if they've signed to say they've read, understood & agree to accept your terms & conditions...one of which states that the deposit is non-refundable!

I've had a few cancellations in recent years, and a couple of them had the cheek to ask if they could have their deposit back.

Needless to say, I politely told them where to go!


A BOOKING FEE is totally different! They pay a booking fee to secure your services and the date. You pay a booking fee on concert tickets etc so look at it that way.

I personally don't like the phrase "booking fee" as I think it might confuse some customers, whereas everyone knows what a deposit it.

Don't certain companies make some kind of EXTRA charge which they call a booking fee if you book certain services over the phone & pay using your credit card?

If that's the case, customers might get confused if we quote the price for a disco and then tell them there is a booking fee of £xxx, as they could easily think that the booking fee was in addition to the price you quoted rather than part of it.

As someone who likes to keep things as simple as possible, my up front payments will always be called deposits...and it's been even better since last September, when I increased the deposit from £50 to £75. I might even increase it again to £100...which is still only about 25% of the total fee anyway.

[dj keevers]

Have any of you ever had your contracts you offer and use, verified and checked by a contracts solicitor. You cant just add and change terms and they become effective just as if there law. All contracts must be deemed as fair and legally structured to be effective and enforceable. I just hope none of them are ever challenged by the legal profession at any time.

Do you think its reasonable to pay for a service you no longer need and will not receive. While its reasonable for you to seek recompense for loss of booking, are you willing to repay any moneys you withhold, if you later rebook that date and hence undertake no losses.

just a few words of warning

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Good point Rob.

When i book tickets for clubbing, it often says tickets are (say) £20...but when i buy it, a £1.50 booking fee has been added, so i end up paying £21.50

[rob1963]

Have any of you ever had your contracts you offer and use, verified and checked by a contracts solicitor.

Not a contracts solicitor, but my t & c HAVE been checked by a solicitor & given the green light.


Do you think its reasonable to pay for a service you no longer need and will not receive.

That depends on the circumstances, but in many cases...yes.


While its reasonable for you to seek recompense for loss of booking, are you willing to repay any moneys you withhold, if you later rebook that date and hence undertake no losses.

Even if you DO later re-book the date, you still HAVE made losses, as there was the time spent doing the paperwork for the original booking before it was cancelled, which may include research, a client visit, purchasing music etc.


Good point Rob.

When i book tickets for clubbing, it often says tickets are (say) £20...but when i buy it, a £1.50 booking fee has been added, so i end up paying £21.50

Exactly.

[DJ Jules]

Personally, as a consumer, I expect a deposit to be non-refundable, that's the point of a deposit - otherwise what was the point of having it there in the first place?

If I put a deposit on a car, I expect to either buy the car or lose the deposit and the same applies to any other goods - if the deposit can be refunded on a whim (given enough notice), then what's the point, it's not securing anything??

Julian

[Corabar Steve]

I think the confusion lies in the fact that some hire companies take a "deposit" which is refunded then whatever is hired is returned in good order.

[rob1963]

Personally, as a consumer, I expect a deposit to be non-refundable, that's the point of a deposit - otherwise what was the point of having it there in the first place?

If I put a deposit on a car, I expect to either buy the car or lose the deposit and the same applies to any other goods - if the deposit can be refunded on a whim (given enough notice), then what's the point, it's not securing anything??

Julian

:agree:

[Get Me A DJ]

Last week. I took two good wedding bookings both good paid gigs. Sent the booking forms and contracts out to the clients. Both the clients send back their paperwork along with the deposit

starting this week ive lost both gigs in one day because there is someone out there willing to do them for a third of the price when ive actually secured the booking.

and ive lost both bookings. I cant take the deposits off them because the bookings arent within the time where they will lose their deposits.
there is more than 2 months before the weddings.

Anyone got the number for the Inland revenue to find out if they pay their taxes :eek:

Hum, I wonder who that could be?
A*** F*** ;)

[Get Me A DJ]

Ok, how would you guys go about adding the cancellation part for a hotel residency?
They do not pay a deposit as you get paid full on the night or on account, so what do you do if they cancel on you, as it could risk you losing the residency if you ask for money for the loss of the gig.

Kev

[Dynamic Entertainment]

My cancellation terms;

13. Cancellations of this contract must be in writing. If this contract is cancelled with the us within eight weeks of the function date, then any advance payment will be retained by the Business and a further amount of fifty percent of the total booking fee will be payable to us. If the cancellation is within thirty days of the performance then the whole of the agreed fee will be payable.

As you say, booking fees are not usually took when im working for hotels, so if the cancellation is made before the 8 week period, then its just something i take on the chin. If they hit the 8 weeks or sooner, they pay us as per my terms.

Ive had this happen twice, and im still working with the hotels in question.

[TONYTIGER]

Hi ,have any of you ever taken legal action on one of your contracts not being honoured,if so how did you get on.

[CRAZY K]

Hi ,have any of you ever taken legal action on one of your contracts not being honoured,if so how did you get on.

Erm, its getting close here on a highly intelligent Wealthy chancer who appears to be trying to get out of paying for a Barn Dance because he organised a Barn Dance but didnt realise that the 12th June was the day England were playing --even after I told him (only verbally)

I have always wondered how you use the small claims court--might find out soon
;)

I believe there are other agencies that can be used for debt recovery as well.

Previously verbal threats from me have always produced a payment for cancellations--thats Court action--- nothing physical ;)

[Twinspin]

Hum, I wonder who that could be?
A*** F*** ;)

Its not actually mate. Its another company. I know the company thats been doing it. £80.00 which is 1/4 of what i charged them for the disco.

But if they want someone for that kind of money i couldnt stop them. I just said ok and that was it. I cant stop them.


As for hotel residencies. I was resident of the Portland Hotel in the city centre i was there for nearly 2 years and i got kicked out by someone cheaper.

But it was june 2009 when i left they had been using some cheaper for about 3 months and they didnt give me any notice they just called me up one day and said we have found an alternative and we will not be needing your services anymore. Only to find out someone had been in and undercut.

I bet there is something you didnt know about AF the guy that owns it is called C*lin C*nman (replace both * with o) It made me laugh when i found out.

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Ive had 3 cases where a stern letter threatening court action and copies of the contract have worked a treat...

[Get Me A DJ]

I bet there is something you didnt know about AF the guy that owns it is called C*lin C*nman (replace both * with o) It made me laugh when i found out.

Knew that over 15 years ago.
I saw his check book when he had the disco shop.

[Excalibur]

Erm, its getting close here on a highly intelligent Wealthy chancer who appears to be trying to get out of paying for a Barn Dance because he organised a Barn Dance but didnt realise that the 12th June was the day England were playing --even after I told him (only verbally)

I have always wondered how you use the small claims court--might find out soon
;)

I believe there are other agencies that can be used for debt recovery as well.
Previously verbal threats from me have always produced a payment for cancellations--thats Court action--- nothing physical ;)
I'm charging the cordless drills, as I type. ;) :D :D :D :D

[jon s]

People do seem to change their minds. I have over thje years had a few cancellations for what I thought were cheaper quotes. These have always been prior to them returning their contract so I never chased any money purely because it's more hassle than it's worth, and that's what people expect.