New speakers

[spin mobile disco]

I am looking for a new pair of speakers to act as stand alone without sub for mobie work. So lightweight is an advantage.
They must be powered.
They must be of a high spl 126+
They must have good all round response including bass if they are to be used without subs.
My budget is maximum £900 but prefer change for bags etc.

I am currently looking at the rcf art 312a - the rcf art310a - the db 402d or 405d

I have heard nice things about the 312a's and like the look of the spec but would like some first hand experience information on pros cons etc.
Or is it worth spending a little more and getting the 15" version?

Reached a bit of an impass on deciding here. Mackie has gone down in my estimation since the returns numbers are so high.
RCF seem to have the best reliability index.
And I currently have DB 402's (non digital) but feel that on their own are a bit lacking in the lower bass. So are concerned that the digital version would have similar responce.
The Db are the lightest as well by nealy 5 kilos whcich is a plus and seem to have a higher spl.

please all suggestions welcome I have the money ready so need to order tomorow and hen can test at the weekend.

[Dynamic Entertainment]

I have a pair of the 312A's and I honestly can't find any cons with them.

They are exceptionally "loud" and offer a well rounded sound for 12 inch drivers...to the point where I've had other djs/entertainers assume that they are 15's.

Definately my best purcase ever, and if you have a decent mixer they a even better I thought they were good with a Citronic..the Denon blew it away :D )

[simonp]

RCF's all the way Matt - I've got the 525a's - Darren has something in the 300's and looking at his first hand they looked far better than mine, especially the rear panel had a lot more to it, and they sound great with or without a sub :D

[TONYTIGER]

QSC K series would be my choice.

[Dynamic Entertainment]

QSC K series would be my choice.

I like the K12's...but at £800 EACH...and I'm assuming that the OP reference to £900 is for a pair ;)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

RCF's all the way Matt - I've got the 525a's - Darren has something in the 300's and looking at his first hand they looked far better than mine, especially the rear panel had a lot more to it, and they sound great with or without a sub :D

I have the 325s which are 15s. I'm pretty sure they were on offer for £1000 a pair recently, which is good considering they were £1400 a pair.

[spin mobile disco]

Yes its for a pair. Im willing to invest in good equipment up to a paoint for example what i do a nexo system would be overkill as would other very high end systems.
I wouldnd touch warrior, sound lab, skytec, prosound etc with a fully extended lighting winch stand :)
No I like my mid range are, I used to like my passive mackie c300z's they where, reliable nice sound, and compact. But I decided to make my rig entirely active as both a space saving measure and to keep cabling simple.

I have pretty much made up my mind on the rcf 312a's because they are in my budget nicely and with the left over cash I can buy nice bags for them protecting my investment.

I was a little in 2 minds as to if the 10" version may also suit my needs as some people say they have better bass response than the 12". But then my previous experience is telling me get a 15" because they always have a deeper bass. The difference is basically around the £100 between each of them.
So does everyone agree on the summation that the 15"" will have better low end or is that no longer true due to the beter build of the rcf? And if that is the case will the 310a's also have a good bottom end?
The spl seems to be very similar between the 310a - 312a and 315a anyone had a play with these models? feel free to throw opnions in people I need ideas.

[TONYTIGER]

I like the K12's...but at £800 EACH...and I'm assuming that the OP reference to £900 is for a pair ;)

£ 610 each down in Dorset but i agree its over budget but there so nice.

[Excalibur]

I've heard Twinspin's 12" RCF's on their own, and they sounded superb. I couldn't believe the bass. Personally, I might be inclined to go for a lower cost option.

[Megamix]

I'm in exactly the same boat - deciding between the 310a - 312a and 315a - I guess I won't know for sure until I hear them - hopefully soon - (but i'm hoping the 312a will suffice)

[Excalibur]

I'm in exactly the same boat - deciding between the 310a - 312a and 315a - I guess I won't know for sure until I hear them - hopefully soon - (but i'm hoping the 312a will suffice)

I find that scenario quite likely.

[spin mobile disco]

Yes I think it seems the better cost vs effect ratio. I have heard some but it was so long ago I remember very little about them. But I do think the cainats look better than the new db and rcf digital range.

[Twinspin]

The 312a are nice speakers and you could easily use them without subs. You can get a pair of these for £800 which is a good price.

Amplifiers and cooling is decent on the RCF speakers. They run extremely cool
wether you run them at background level or crank them up a bit.

Weight... 18kg for an Active speaker is lighter than a lot of passive models.

Main thing is the sound quality. These do sound lovely and 127db is LOUD for a speaker.

I had Mackie SRM450s and i certainly will never regret changing them for these they are better.

[spin mobile disco]

Yes i have db 402's I use at the moment and they are actually rated higher but I suspect that is becuse they do not go down as low in frequency as the rcf and that has probably had a factor in the spl rating.
So looks like the 12" version have the most going for them. I had kind of hoped that the 10" version my do but that was only because they are only 10 kilos each :)

[yourdj]

Yes i have db 402's I use at the moment and they are actually rated higher but I suspect that is becuse they do not go down as low in frequency as the rcf and that has probably had a factor in the spl rating.
So looks like the 12" version have the most going for them. I had kind of hoped that the 10" version my do but that was only because they are only 10 kilos each :)

10's are great! especially as they are so light. Go for the bigger one if no bass bin present.
I have used mine allot without but would not be happy all the time. :)

[deltic]

QSC K series would be my choice.

i'll second the k12's fantastic sound,in fact i was impressed by the k10's very tight sound.

[spin mobile disco]

Another late entry here. The Db 405D had been reduced in price and offers more power and higher spl than the rcf with a 8 kilo weight reduction. I must admit hese have just become a real possibilty (even though they are ugly)
For the same price as the art 315's they are 10 kilos lighter than the 315's 1 spl higher (i know only a 1)
I was speaking to another member regarding the 312a earlier today and he seemed to think the rcf lacked any real bass. Anyone have a differning viewpoint?

[Excalibur]

I was speaking to another member regarding the 312a earlier today and he seemed to think the rcf lacked any real bass. Anyone have a differning viewpoint?




I've heard Twinspin's 12" RCF's on their own, and they sounded superb. I couldn't believe the bass. Personally, I might be inclined to go for a lower cost option.


The 312a are nice speakers and you could easily use them without subs. You can get a pair of these for £800 which is a good price.

.
Well John and I apparently, for a start, as we said earlier. . :D :D :D :D :D

[spin mobile disco]

Thats what I thought. I have noticed on some websites selling the 312a's they list them as version 2's however I cannot find a reference to version 1 so it is possible he is refering to the v1 not v2 or visa versa.

[DJ James Lake]

Another late entry here. The Db 405D had been reduced in price and offers more power and higher spl than the rcf with a 8 kilo weight reduction. I must admit hese have just become a real possibilty (even though they are ugly)
For the same price as the art 315's they are 10 kilos lighter than the 315's 1 spl higher (i know only a 1)
I was speaking to another member regarding the 312a earlier today and he seemed to think the rcf lacked any real bass. Anyone have a differning viewpoint?

Matthew not sure about the digital ones but I own a pair of the 405's (non digital) and up against the Mackies they seem to have so little bass. If your not working Friday night I will have both at a gig in Yardley Hastings your welcome to pop along and hear them running together.

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Well John and I apparently, for a start, as we said earlier. . :D :D :D :D :D

Thats you, John and me then.

Never heard of v1 and v2 either....

[spin mobile disco]

Fraid im working James but I have the 402's anyway and im told the 402s and the 405s have almost exactly the same bottom end.
For the first time in ages I actually have the money to buy some speakers not just drool but seem to be stuck in the not enough to buy the upper mid range but not happy with the lower mid range.
I like DB sound but I agree they are a little lacking on bass side without a sub. But have never had a client mention it or suffered losses on dancefloor due to this.
But the rcf have a nice rounded sound a good name and to be honest look very appealing compared to the others on offer. Down side its weight and worrying about bass responce below the 60hz mark.
The mackies are slightly out of my price range when i add in the need for padded bags with whatever speakers I choose. Also with the feedback from owners of these I have my doubts about reliability since the change over to chinese manafacture. I know this is a small amount of owners but still has me second guessing them.

In terms of money what I can afford is :

The rcf art 312a's at £800 a pair 19 kilos each
The DB402 Digital at £850 a pair 12 kilos each
The RCF art 315 at £850 a pair. 24 kilos each
Bags work out about another £80 on top give or take depending on speaker chosen.
The Mackie is out of my price range at £950 a pair for the black version (dont like the blue )
But will consider the mackies if anyone can find a cheaper source for them.

Thanks for the help so far guys as it is helping me make up my mind at least I have narrowed the choices a bit.

[spin mobile disco]

Sorry should read MKII not v2

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Still never heard of a mk2 ;)

[spin mobile disco]

Yeah its got me as well I cant find reference to any other speaker without same name and specs but several websites list it as the mkII. Maybe the MKI is the passive version but not sure.

[TONYTIGER]

The only difference i can think of is the prefix 2 which means a 2" exit driver on the horn rather than 1".

[spin mobile disco]

Yes could be right their.
Anyhow thank you for all those who inputed on this thread advice was taken on board and have now made my. Decision. Drum roll........

I chose the rcf312a reasons are the good reviews on them, no major theads on problems with them. They worked out only £890 including padded bags so have some change to buy some stand adapters for my ultimax. They are going out for first gig tomorow and I will let you all know how it went afterwards.

[sweetie]

£ 610 each down in Dorset but i agree its over budget but there so nice.

any link? I know someone looking for these. thanks

[Megamix]

I chose the rcf312a

Hope I'm not too far behind you - I found them for £790 but not sure on bag price

[Twinspin]

The RCF bags tend to fray after so long. Mine have started to fray a bit on the bottom.

Id say that was probably the only Con. But the speakers themselves i cant think of a bad word to say about them.

One thing i will tell you though. On the back of the cabs there is an EQ button so you can set them to the right level.

Yellow - Voice
Green - High (best used if you are using subwoofers with them)
Red - Full Range (if you are using the tops on their own)

for what you want to do with them. RED is the EQ mode to run them in.
the mode indictator led is on the front of the speaker in the middle just behind the grille and the top.

[spin mobile disco]

Thanks Twinspin, yes I tend to run my Db with the same setting and let the external crossovrs do the work if I am running with sub as well. I am looking forward to hearing them Tomorow, taking my Db along as well just in case though.
I didnt buy the rcf bags in the end as I was offered an alternative make that are made of the same material cheaper so I will give review to those as well when they get here incase anyone else wants some. They work out at about half the price of the rcf ones so if any good I will let you all know.

[Twinspin]

When i bought another sub. I ordered some covers and asked them for the original RCF ART705 subwoofer bag. By mistake the company sent me a Falcon Pro Audio cover. So i had to send it back to get the original bag

I opted for the RCF bags because they are designed in such a way where you can keep the bags over them while using the speaker which is ideal.... For outdoor events to keep them as dry as possible.

At any otber event ill take the covers off and put them in my box trailer so i dont really take advantage of the features of the original cover that often.

So any cover that is nicely padded to protect your investment is perfect.
doesnt have to be an original bag. The falcon bags were that little bit cheaper
but still they was just as good as the original but without the features.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs514.ash1/30293_404095900956_512570956_4888891_4204997_n.jpg

[spin mobile disco]

Update to this thread and its important to anyone buying new rcf speakers.

Well my new speakers are ere and lo and behold have MK II printed both on the speaker and the box. And a bit of a shock the 312a has been redesigned and no longer matches the ones shown on the internet.
Changes I have spotted so far.

Ok Cabinate is slightly bigger than the advertised size its taller now around the 70cm so a couple of cm higher than the original.

The contour eq control has been removed and is not abscent.

Its lighter. It was advertised as 19kilos the same as my DB 402's however on comparing the 2 it is definatly lighter than the Db my best guess is around the 18 kg mark.

It has lost its 6.3 mm jack connector and now only has the xlr in and out conector. The 1" tweeter has been replaced with the 1.5" version (according to the specs anyway)

And the power draw has now been upped to 480w power. Note the rms output has not changed just the power draw.

So upshot of this is the bags I ordered do not fit :( as the speaker is several cm to tall although all the other dimesions seem the same.

It no longer has a seperate 6.3 that could be used as a mic input but It does have a mic select witch for input on the xlr.

I can see no sensor or light array for the remote control so my guess is that this has now been discontinued.

It also no longer has selectable high pass output switch. It bascally looks like some of the features have been removed in the v2.

They are going out to this evenings gig for testing so will give an account of that later. Still a little miffed at the lose of these functions especially as the site I bought it from shows a picture of the back panel still with all these functions on it.

[CRAZY K]

Update to this thread and its important to anyone buying new rcf speakers.

Well my new speakers are ere and lo and behold have MK II printed both on the speaker and the box. And a bit of a shock the 312a has been redesigned and no longer matches the ones shown on the internet.
Changes I have spotted so far.

Ok Cabinate is slightly bigger than the advertised size its taller now around the 70cm so a couple of cm higher than the original.

The contour eq control has been removed and is not abscent.

Its lighter. It was advertised as 19kilos the same as my DB 402's however on comparing the 2 it is definatly lighter than the Db my best guess is around the 18 kg mark.

It has lost its 6.3 mm jack connector and now only has the xlr in and out conector. The 1" tweeter has been replaced with the 1.5" version (according to the specs anyway)

And the power draw has now been upped to 480w power. Note the rms output has not changed just the power draw.

So upshot of this is the bags I ordered do not fit :( as the speaker is several cm to tall although all the other dimesions seem the same.

It no longer has a seperate 6.3 that could be used as a mic input but It does have a mic select witch for input on the xlr.

I can see no sensor or light array for the remote control so my guess is that this has now been discontinued.

It also no longer has selectable high pass output switch. It bascally looks like some of the features have been removed in the v2.

They are going out to this evenings gig for testing so will give an account of that later. Still a little miffed at the lose of these functions especially as the site I bought it from shows a picture of the back panel still with all these functions on it.

I suppose it depends on whether the differences affect your way of working--misdescriptions would be covered by consumer law.

You havent tried shaking the house yet with the Bass end Matt:confused:

:Laugh: :Laugh: :Laugh:

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Update to this thread and its important to anyone buying new rcf speakers.

Well my new speakers are ere and lo and behold have MK II printed both on the speaker and the box. And a bit of a shock the 312a has been redesigned and no longer matches the ones shown on the internet.
Changes I have spotted so far.

Ok Cabinate is slightly bigger than the advertised size its taller now around the 70cm so a couple of cm higher than the original.

The contour eq control has been removed and is not abscent.

Its lighter. It was advertised as 19kilos the same as my DB 402's however on comparing the 2 it is definatly lighter than the Db my best guess is around the 18 kg mark.

It has lost its 6.3 mm jack connector and now only has the xlr in and out conector. The 1" tweeter has been replaced with the 1.5" version (according to the specs anyway)

And the power draw has now been upped to 480w power. Note the rms output has not changed just the power draw.

So upshot of this is the bags I ordered do not fit :( as the speaker is several cm to tall although all the other dimesions seem the same.

It no longer has a seperate 6.3 that could be used as a mic input but It does have a mic select witch for input on the xlr.

I can see no sensor or light array for the remote control so my guess is that this has now been discontinued.

It also no longer has selectable high pass output switch. It bascally looks like some of the features have been removed in the v2.

They are going out to this evenings gig for testing so will give an account of that later. Still a little miffed at the lose of these functions especially as the site I bought it from shows a picture of the back panel still with all these functions on it.

The mic select switch is also on mk1
If theyve took out the auto eq feature then the remote (other than remove volume) would be obsolete anyway.
Selectable High Pass Output :confused: ... i didnt know mine had that feature :o

If the functions were listed (and its listed thats the important part regardless of what the pictures show (i think i remember that right)) and arnt present on the Mk2's then you may have grounds for a return if your not happy :)

EDIT --- I cant even find the mk2 version on RCFs website :shrug:

[spin mobile disco]

The mic select switch is also on mk1
If theyve took out the auto eq feature then the remote (other than remove volume) would be obsolete anyway.
Selectable High Pass Output :confused: ... i didnt know mine had that feature :o

If the functions were listed (and its listed thats the important part regardless of what the pictures show (i think i remember that right)) and arnt present on the Mk2's then you may have grounds for a return if your not happy :)

EDIT --- I cant even find the mk2 version on RCFs website :shrug:

Yeah I know mine do not match ony of the litrature on their site. The back panel is plain the same as the new digital series 4. I got a price reduction already on them due to price match and one of the cabs being scratched on arrival. It wasnt until after plugging n for testing I noticed the panel differences, main one of course being the eq button missing.

I think I intend to keep them partly due to the price reduction and partly due to that they do sound nice. Although I do feel their response below the 90hz mark seems to be rather lacking but im guessing an externa eq will now be required as the speaker no longer has a music mode built in.

[busydancefloor]

How have you found the 312s? Are you considering buying a sub to go with them too? I guess the main option is the ART 705-AS?

[spin mobile disco]

No the art sub I have heard and still prefer my db-sub15 . These tops have only been bought to act as my backup to main system and for use in smaller venues with bad access when I do not want to take a sub.
If I decide I like them I may move them up to my main play out and move my db tops to my backup but I have not reached a decision on this yet. Maybe after another few gigs.

[paulg]

"Originally Posted by spin mobile disco
I was speaking to another member regarding the 312a earlier today and he seemed to think the rcf lacked any real bass. Anyone have a differning viewpoint?"

Yep, I tend to agree there. The RCF 12 inch's do lack a bit of bottom end but perhaps I need to try them with a different mixer. They wouldn't be my choice for stand alone speakers or as speakers paired with small subs.

I've got RCF 722's and they are loud but they are somehow lacking in the low frequency range. So much so, I've paired them with 4 pro subs and that, to be fair, does give a crystal clear full range sound that I need.

[Ecstatic Events]

In terms of money what I can afford is :

The rcf art 312a's at £800 a pair 19 kilos each
The DB402 Digital at £850 a pair 12 kilos each
The RCF art 315 at £850 a pair. 24 kilos each


Apologies for hijacking this thread, but could someone be so kind to let me know where I could source the 315's at that price?