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REVOLUTIONS
18-08-2006, 12:26 PM
Hello

I'm new to this game & would appreciate some pointers into the power requirements of amps & speakers. I'm looking into JBL/Crown combo's but how much wattage will I need for small, medium and large scale events?

I know this is a broad question but I'm looking for a ball park idea on how many speakers & amps I'll need.

Many Thanks

BeerFunk
18-08-2006, 12:31 PM
Extremely hard to say, but one thing I will say is that the number of people at the event is a bigger factor than the size of the hall. A packed small hall will need more power than an empty large hall.

I normally use a 300W amp with 500W speakers, and they can comfortably handle to 200/250 people, in a decent sized hall :)

Paul James Promotions
18-08-2006, 12:32 PM
Hi,

Welcome to the forum :D

For general disco use, up to around 300 people, a good 1000w RMS PA system will be sufficient.

What sort of budget do you have for the system? Also, how will you transport the equipment?

Regards,

Jamie

P.S. Why not introduce yourself in the 'Newbies' area? :)

REVOLUTIONS
18-08-2006, 12:40 PM
Hi

Thanks for the feedback.

I plan on using top quality gear to give me the edge in terms of sound quality. I'm looking at Pioneer CD players, Allen & Heath mixer & Technics turntables fitted with upgraded Origin Live arms (plus the JBL & Crown speaker/amps combo's).

I've not looked into lighting yet. I'm planning on getting started over the next couple of months using the profit from a house sale which is currently going through.

My mode of transport will be a medium sized van which I can also use to get me to my day job.

I have a large collection of CD's & records (working in a record shop feeds my record buying habbit).

How do you feel about using mp3's or wav files from a laptop during a set? I have Ableton Live 5 software. Do customers expect to see a DJ with CD's & vinyl?

Thanks

Paul James Promotions
18-08-2006, 12:44 PM
Do you have a budget in mind for speakers and amplifier?

Shaun
18-08-2006, 12:45 PM
How do you feel about using mp3's or wav files from a laptop during a set? I have Ableton Live 5 software. Do customers expect to see a DJ with CD's & vinyl?

Thanks


Digital (laptop) dj'ing is becoming common-place these days. As long as you encode your collection at a high quality bitrate you should be fine....minimum 192 kbps...256kbps would be better though.

Welcome to the community. Feel free to introduce yourself over in the new members section (http://www.mobilediscodirectory.co.uk/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=32) of the forum :)

REVOLUTIONS
18-08-2006, 12:49 PM
Budget for amp/speakers is about £5,500. Is this realistic?

Corabar Steve
18-08-2006, 12:53 PM
Budget for amp/speakers is about £5,500. Is this realistic?
More than enough, I'd say.

P.S. Start a newbies thread to keep everyone happy & we'll all say hello to you. :teeth:

Paul James Promotions
18-08-2006, 01:05 PM
I recently moved to Void sound, from EV / Bose / Crown Macrotech and wouldn't look back.

Two of these http://www.voidaudio.com/product_detail.asp?id=46 would do a fantastic job, and be well under your budget, leaving plenty to spend on other equipment.

Jamie

leighinstoke
18-08-2006, 01:29 PM
£5000 is a huge budget I feel, especially as I got setup for £1500 and play to venues about the size you say.

Leigh....

Have a disco
18-08-2006, 03:15 PM
I would say limit yourself to £2000 for sound try to get say 1.5k system I currently have 1.6 militec (MT) and 2.4k behringer speakers 2 x PA & 2 x Subs/bass speakers

which are more than ample in large or small venues of upto 500 people, obviously you get £5,000 worth if you intending to have the best system in the world ever. but in general usage it may be pointless use the extra £3000 for your lighting and you can get a quality set up for that price

leighinstoke
18-08-2006, 04:49 PM
How much are the Lucas HK systems now?

DMX Will
18-08-2006, 04:58 PM
£5k :omg: You could probably look into the Funktion One stuff.

abyssdjhire
18-08-2006, 05:10 PM
£5k :omg: You could probably look into the Funktion One stuff.

doubt it.

lucas systems are still overpriced if you ask me, especially for what they are. theres similar systems around that are better, louder, and cost less

A1DL
18-08-2006, 05:11 PM
£5k :omg: You could probably look into the Funktion One stuff.

still be cutting it fine, two F218s and two Res2s trade come to about that,
then you still need the amps

abyssdjhire
18-08-2006, 05:13 PM
couple of soundlab amps would do................................................ ..............................

A1DL
18-08-2006, 05:14 PM
couple of soundlab amps would do................................................ ..............................


oi!:teeth:

you referring to my soundlab thread from a few days ago? :teeth:

abyssdjhire
18-08-2006, 05:16 PM
nope... although i did read it, ish. i think.

you'd be pushing it to get a useful F1 system for anywhere near that money... gotta remember how the speakers are designed to work

A1DL
18-08-2006, 05:22 PM
Getting back to the original question, as a rule of thumb you won't go far wrong with the "10 watts RMS per head" rule

abyssdjhire
18-08-2006, 05:33 PM
mmmmmm you can though, as wattage doesnt equal volume. it all depends what you're buying really. far too many factors come into it to make it a simple task, or a simplifiable task for that matter

A1DL
18-08-2006, 05:57 PM
mmmmmm you can though, as wattage doesnt equal volume. it all depends what you're buying really. far too many factors come into it to make it a simple task, or a simplifiable task for that matter

Like I said, this is only a rule of thumb, but one that is usually quite reliable without being scientific.

Going slightly off topic, although still relevant to power, I note you quote on your website:

"Our speakers are powered by an amazing BEHRINGER amplifier which outputs at 700watts per channel. Our research has shown that the majority of mobile dj and disco services use 500watt amplifiers. Hearing this with our own ears we decided this was not enough. Far from enough. Our amplifier outputs 700watts a side, equaling to 1400watts, which is 2.8x more power than the average service provides."

I'm sure many members of this forum would be interested in where this research came from, as I doubt there's many guys n gals on here that only take out 250w a side, except perhaps to the very smallest of functions. IMHO the statement is somewhat inaccurate.

Paul James Promotions
18-08-2006, 06:02 PM
lucas systems are still overpriced if you ask me, especially for what they are. theres similar systems around that are better, louder, and cost less

Yep, like a Void Basys. :teeth:

Tested against a Elias and Lucas 2000 and it wipes the floor....

abyssdjhire
18-08-2006, 06:25 PM
i dont like HK gear at all, particularly the lucas systems... i just dont know how they can justify charging what they do for a system of that standard.

leighinstoke
18-08-2006, 07:48 PM
So can I assume the DAP systems are equally as unpopular?

Leigh....

abyssdjhire
18-08-2006, 09:01 PM
well, we sell them so i cant say too much, but we've not sold one.... so i'll leave you to make up your own minds :)

Sapphire Disco
18-08-2006, 09:05 PM
I normally use a 300W amp with 500W speakers, and they can comfortably handle to 200/250 people, in a decent sized hall :)[/QUOTE]

Are you sure that's enough and have got the amp & speaker power mixed up?
Not having a dig just doesn't sound enough to me :)

abyssdjhire
18-08-2006, 09:16 PM
again it depends on the speakers... and also depends if he means 300w/side, or 300w total.

our wharfedale cabinets are only 300w rms and we've never had a problem with volume with large crowds.

Sapphire Disco
18-08-2006, 09:25 PM
Must be me then, I use 400w class D subs with 300w studiomaster tops, a 700p/c amp and sometimes I feel it's only just enough in a big place, I am thinking of getting a 1200 p/c amp to drive them harder.

Paul James Promotions
18-08-2006, 09:33 PM
Efficiency plays a big part too, as well as the spec of different amplifiers.

A high quality specification 500w system would probrably sound as loud as a cheaper 1000w system.

DMX Will
18-08-2006, 09:40 PM
Must be me then, I use 400w class D subs with 300w studiomaster tops, a 700p/c amp and sometimes
we have some class d subs. take out the passive crossover, and use a rack mount crossover instead, increases the power (that and the passive crossover in one of our subs blew up twice) ;)

abyssdjhire
18-08-2006, 09:42 PM
thats what i meant, just without saying the word efficiency. :) of course volume isnt everything though, and it should be kept comfortable rather than overpowering

Sapphire Disco
18-08-2006, 09:42 PM
Thanks I will try that.

A1DL
18-08-2006, 10:07 PM
I normally use a 300W amp with 500W speakers, and they can comfortably handle to 200/250 people, in a decent sized hall :)

Are you sure that's enough and have got the amp & speaker power mixed up?
Not having a dig just doesn't sound enough to me :)[/QUOTE]

As Jamie rightly points out, cabinet efficiency is key.

However, no matter how efficient your cabs are and how perfect a venue's acoustics are, I can't see how a 300w amp can be sufficient for 250 guests in a decent sized hall. Unless you are using it for vocal PA (announcements) and background music only.

Sapphire Disco
18-08-2006, 10:13 PM
Yes that's my opinion to, by the way my quote was the second quote, the first quote was by BeerFunk not me ,I think it's got a bit mixed up.

abyssdjhire
18-08-2006, 10:13 PM
diamond - your pm's are full, i cant reply to you

BeerFunk
18-08-2006, 11:09 PM
However, no matter how efficient your cabs are and how perfect a venue's acoustics are, I can't see how a 300w amp can be sufficient for 250 guests in a decent sized hall. Unless you are using it for vocal PA (announcements) and background music only.
Aaah, you're right, slight mistake in my original post..

The amp is 300W at 8ohms, although those Peaveys are 4ohms. So the amp is outputting at well over 400W :)

theoloyla
21-08-2006, 02:06 PM
As you know I am a bit old fashioned BUT for the record I run a Peavey 900 (450 + 450 at 4 0hms) with 4 Deltec Mini Bins (8 ohms each). The folded horn design makes them very efficient and even though they only have a 100 watt drive plus horn and tweeter I find them perfectly loud enough for the gigs I do. In fact at many of the smaller venues I only run 2 speakers and have been ok for up to 200 people. The largest venue I have played is Margate Winter Gardens (capacity 1,000?) and I have had requests from organizers to turn down the volume as it was too loud!

spin mobile disco
06-09-2006, 09:32 PM
I run a pair of 300 watt speakers from an 620watt amp (300w is rated max 150watts rms) amp can provide 230 watts per channel at 8oms (280watts peak) Now i have had no problems with sound for up to 200 people with this setup with the amp set to about 7 /10 on the volume pots. However i am aware that my speakers only have an efficientsy rating of PSL 92DB which as some of you may know is rather poor for 15" cabs with widehorns in. However If i were to spend some real money and buy some PSL 97DB rated speakers i could get almost double the sound from them than i do from my current speakers. And this would put no extra load on the amp. I think a lot of people think that power = more noise but if the speakers are not very efficent and the amp is having to make up the shortfall then the big power amps become required because the speakers are so poor in handling. The whole point is air movement the cones on a 50watt speaker could move air more than a 1000 watt speaker but the end result would be the same. More air = more noise. Want to increase your voulume get some efficient speakers then double them . 4 speakers at 4 ohms from a good amp with a psl rating of 96db or more will probably still be under a 1000 watts and i would use that setup for just about any ' mobile disco '

Thats my opinion anyway please feel free to nitpick as everyone tends to have their own opinion on this matter. My recomend would be follow the majority.

Have a disco
06-09-2006, 10:51 PM
Just to clarify what would one class as a decent hall for size work in ft n inches if it helps but try to keep metric

Murrough
06-09-2006, 11:18 PM
I Have a rule of thumb for this.

I've always worked on 200 + 2 RMS Watts per person up to 500 People, 2.5 upto 750 and 3 up to 1000 3.5 Over 1000 etc etc. This is the total wattage so halve it for each speaker.

300 People I would take 800 Watts total (400rms per side)

800 People I would take 2600 Watts total (1300 rms per side)

1500 People I would Take 5450 Watts total (2.75kW rms per side) (Only ever done a couple in 18 Years)

Solitaire Events Ltd
06-09-2006, 11:53 PM
Can't really see how that would work, as surely it would depend on the kind of venue and also the efficiency of your speakers.

Have a disco
06-09-2006, 11:55 PM
exactly what I was asking what would someone class as a decent sized hall to measure all these factors

Candybeatdiscos
07-09-2006, 01:18 AM
i have a 600 watt amp and a 1000 watt amp, i just go with the flow and try places out - some have limiters anyway

spin mobile disco
07-09-2006, 01:24 AM
Can't really see how that would work, as surely it would depend on the kind of venue and also the efficiency of your speakers.
I agree with you on venue try this one i had the other day.

I played Towcester racecourse the other day for a wedding it must have been about 250ft x 70ft normally not a problem but the whole room was carpeted with thick carpet and it had a low ceiling with accoustic tiles. And to make matters worse they had the dance floor about 70ft from where they made me set up in an alcove with pillars that just loved being half in front of my speakers with doors either side of me so i couldnt move them.

LMAO

Best layed plans and all that basically nothing i could have taken with me short of a 10k rig designed for a concert could have made that room sound great. Luckily i managed to get everyone up dancing on the carpet instead and they had a great time. But i wish they hadn't stuck me in the corner.
I have done big halls , like sports halls bigger than this and been no where near half power to get a good sound but this one room has to have been one of the worst i have played must have been about 1 notch from burning my speakers out but still didnt clip. Phew .
i use normally use an spl of 92 asmy speakers but after that one i went out and ordered some peaveys with an spl of 98 in the hope of avoiding this in the future.

Solitaire Events Ltd
07-09-2006, 01:33 AM
I think what people forget, is that mostly we need to fill the dance floor with sound and not the whole place.

abyssdjhire
07-09-2006, 01:35 AM
I think what people forget, is that mostly we need to fill the dance floor with sound and not the whole place.

do you know how often i try to tell people that?


but i want them to hear my voice right at the back

hmm...

spin mobile disco
07-09-2006, 02:27 AM
of course easier if the dance floor isnt another time zone lol

Corabar Entertainment
07-09-2006, 02:31 AM
of course easier if the dance floor isnt another time zone lolLOL - Like that one :teeth:

CRAZY K
07-09-2006, 09:26 AM
Towcester Racecourse eh?

Better put that on my black list :sad:

Doing Fakenham Racecourse East Anglia at Xmas--any one know that venue?


CRAZY K

alexperrins
07-09-2006, 09:26 AM
Sorry about Towcester. I work at an architects in Sutton Coldfield who designed the new stands! Didn’t personally have anything to do with the design – not being qualified and all – but I’ll mention it to the architect that his dancefloor wasn’t very well positioned.

soundtracker
07-09-2006, 09:51 AM
I think what people forget, is that mostly we need to fill the dance floor with sound and not the whole place.
Absolutely spot on, all filling the room with sound does is to **** people off, especially at family parties where they want to talk! As long as its loud on the dancefloor, nowhere else matters, as for the microphone thing- just turn it up more than the decks- works for me! :teeth:

theoloyla
07-09-2006, 02:27 PM
Absolutely spot on, all filling the room with sound does is to **** people off, especially at family parties where they want to talk! As long as its loud on the dancefloor, nowhere else matters, as for the microphone thing- just turn it up more than the decks- works for me! :teeth:
Absolutely right. That is what you do a sound check for.

Murrough
07-09-2006, 11:33 PM
Well my rule of thumb has always worked for me. Generally people normally book the right sized venue for the number of people they have. Yes some venue's are acoustically different, but that is always the case.

I also try and visit beforehand, where I can adjust accordingly say for high ceilings or such. But if I can not, then I take enough to cover my rule of thumb. AFter all I dont have to turn it up full do I, but if I dont have enough, well then thats a problem.

A1DL
08-09-2006, 12:58 AM
I Have a rule of thumb for this.

I've always worked on 200 + 2 RMS Watts per person up to 500 People, 2.5 upto 750 and 3 up to 1000 3.5 Over 1000 etc etc. This is the total wattage so halve it for each speaker.

300 People I would take 800 Watts total (400rms per side)

800 People I would take 2600 Watts total (1300 rms per side)

1500 People I would Take 5450 Watts total (2.75kW rms per side) (Only ever done a couple in 18 Years)

even with a lot of assumptions which have been discussed at length in this thread, whilst this rule of thumb may work for very small headcounts, the latter two examples are way under-speced.

to be honest, 800wrms for 300 guests is tiny

assuming for the two larger options, we're talking an active system with a 2:1 bass:mid/high ratio (which is a common industry standard to work to) even if you're flying the mid-high boxes, and have horn loaded subs, this is drastically under powered, assuming the dancefloor is of a size to hold around one third of the guests.

I always work to the 10wrms per head rule on FOH, and often put in a bit more than on the spec on the day, especially for big marquee jobs where both a band and DJ are going thru FOH, where bass is so easily absorbed.

abyssdjhire
08-09-2006, 01:22 AM
as a general rule, you should ditch the wattage:people ratio, and work off what you know the speakers will handle.

A1DL
08-09-2006, 01:28 AM
as a general rule, you should ditch the wattage:people ratio, and work off what you know the speakers will handle.

the rule is used to determine roughly how much kit is required and to get an idea of how the stacks will be built

abyssdjhire
08-09-2006, 01:41 AM
the rule is used to determine roughly how much kit is required and to get an idea of how the stacks will be built

well, it all depends how you work i suppose. each to their own :)

colinm345
08-09-2006, 09:41 AM
Well at one particular event we use 950rms for 380 people and it must work as we keep getting asked back for this event year after year :)

Murrough
08-09-2006, 10:11 AM
I always work to the 10wrms per head rule on FOH, and often put in a bit more than on the spec on the day, especially for big marquee jobs where both a band and DJ are going thru FOH, where bass is so easily absorbed.

I'll give you the marquees, I normally double up at least if I know ita a marquee :)