Active Speakers Mackie/RCF/Kam? - help!!

[alexperrins]

Hi all, bit of a long one, but any help would be appreciated :teeth:

I'm a bit of a newbie and I'm looking to buy active speakers for my set up. I have really only DJ'd at parties before now for friends and relatives at weddings and birthdays, but now I'm booked for a couple of weddings and I really need a reliable set of speakers.

Firstly, portability is an issue, and I could do with a quick set up time, which is why I'm looking at the active speaker market - however, are there any downsides of going active rather than passive that I should know of?

The three main speakers I have looked at are the Mackie SRM350s, the RCF ART 310As and the KAM IMS-PRO15As. The JBL Eon G10s are I think a little out of my price range, unless somebody can convince me they are worth it.
For information, I will probably be performing for around 150 people max in village hall sized venues. If anybody has any recommendations, please let me know!!

Now, the KAMs have a 15" drivers but are obviously larger. I am worried that the Mackies and RCFs won't have enough base/power. I am aware the Mackies are only 195watts each but apparently they are very efficient, especially with their bass boost system. Does anybody have any opinions on this? The KAMs are 400w each, which is nearly twice the power - but I have no idea on their sound quality.

To conclude!! Are my choices suitable and is there anything else I should look at?

Many thanks

Alex

[wensleydale]

i have unpowered rcf 312s and jbl eon 15s.
first question would be do you really need powered speakers or could you consider using a separate amp which is a bit more verstile in case one part of it breaks and allows more flexibility.
i have used the rcf and jbl powered version and for "a village hall" i am certain you would be fine with either- there seems to be a trend to have enough power these days to provide sound for a small village when in reality all you need is enough to provide music for the dancefloor and immediate area around, plus gear that can cope with speeches for the whole room.
The RCFs would get my vote.
rich

[alexperrins]

Thanks, I have thought about passive speakers as an option, maybe I'll give it another think over. Anybody else got any info?

[DMX Will]

Hi Alex, welcome to the forum! Why not introduce yourself by creating a thread in our "Newbies" section.

In regard to your post...

I haven't personally heard the KAM active cabs live, and I've heard a few speakers in my short life span :P. This sort of says the professionals don't use them. I would personally go with the Mackie active cabs, if you want to go active. The 195w Vs. Kam 400w well, the mackies may even end up louder. 200w is plenty for these "village hall" situations.

There are pro's and con's to both active and passive, and at the end of the day the prices arn't too different. Passive speakers, in my opinion have the more pro look, where as i find active have the "turn on and go" which doesn't appeal to me personally. If you on a budget, I can highly reccommend the Class D stuff, my company have one of their systems, and it's great for the smaller venues. You can pick up a pair of passive cabs for something stupid like £140 @ 250-350watts a cab.

Then, with regards to amplifiers, the Behringer Europower pair are amazing for their money (£200-250).

The only different you will have when setting up is running speaker leads, BUT running shorter line leads to the amp. :)

Hope this helps, if you need any more information, let us know!

Remember! New thread in newbies section to introduce yourself and say Hi!

[abyssdjhire]

welcome to the forum. the RCF Art310A's are by far the most superior speaker out of those you have listed.

as for passive vs active.... how often do you actually have a problem with an active speaker? in all the time we've been running, and out of all the active speakers we've sold (far more than passive) we've had one single problem, which i believe was down to a couriers rather slack handling.

as for the volume of them, the kam's are naff... they dont even state the pressure levels, so i wouldnt even want to imagine what the figure actually is. the mackies are OK (although i dont like mackie) at 121dB, which is about normal for a 10" cabinet... and the RCF cabinets knock the socks off both at 127dB, which is absolutely incredible at 10". they are world known to be better than many larger and "more powerful" cabinets.

i have just sent you a pm with a bit more info

[alexperrins]

Thanks for your PM AbyssAudioLighting, I will send a reply!! I did want to stay clear of KAMs to be honest, I hadn't heard much bad press but I don't particularly trust the name as far speakers go. I've read a couple of reviews on the RCFs and they are my top choice.

Alex

[abyssdjhire]

what kam have done with the IMS stuff (amongst others) is try to turn a range of entry level low budget gear into "professional looking" stuff. quite a few manufacturers are doing it now, and for most of the part they are fooling people :(

all it really is, is flashy cases and shells on equipment that used to be in a naff basic box

[CRAZY K]

Out of interest I used a DJs system at a Wedding a few weeks ago with KAM speakers--passive.

They sounded fine to me.

The DJ who was using this set up actually owns and runs his own Disco shop-

Hope this is of interest--also worked on some Yamaha Kit last night which sounded pretty good for a small set up.

CRAZY K

[alexperrins]

Thanks, it is nice to hear another point of view.

I am always interested in the opinions of other DJs. I wanted to stay clear of KAMs as they are not always top of the pile when it comes to brand names and although I have not heard any bad reviews in the press, I haven't heard anything that fantastic about them either. If anybody has seen any respected reviews on the passive or active KAM range, or in fact the Mackies/RCFs, please let me know!!

[Groove Spinner]

I use the RCF 310A actives, along with a 705 AS sub for larger venues. The speakers just just fab; a really top quality sound and an incredible amount of power for their size. I'd recommend them, although if you can afford it, the sub adds a real kick to the bottom end. The 312A's are worth considering if you want a bit more bass without using a sub.

[alexperrins]

Thanks for everyones help. It seems, if my budget is not to be extended drastically. the dB technologies basic200s might be an option. Has anybody had any experience with these?

[DJ Spinko]

Alex,

I have used active speakers for the past 5 years, with no real problems - the only issue I had is a 'vol-pot' having gone.
The night one of them died on me, I survived the rest of the gig on just one speaker.
I have two pairs that I tend to use alternately, db Technologies Opera 412's and Alto PS4HA's.
You can pick these up for about £800 and £600 a pair respectively. The are a bit more expensive than the Gemini and KAM 'equivalent' but cheaper than the Mackies 450's.
They both have more than enough for a village hall size venue.
They are connected directly to the balanced outputs from the mixer, (Citronic CDM8:4)
The Opera's are unbelievably light also, weighing at around 17kg each.
I can only speak for this make/type but I would thoroughly recommend them.

Cris
DJ Spinko

[abyssdjhire]

you can buy both of them for less than £800 and £600... i know that, because we sell them both :)

the basic 200 is, as i mentioned in pm alex, a cut down version of the opera live range. people that want a bit more power over the basic 200's often go for the live 202, which i think i also mentioned.

as dj spinko has said - theyre both very reliable. the whole complaint about amps going is quite honestly an old story now... 10+ years old at that. and if you really did want to keep a spare amp with you... purchase the dB speakers, and also buy a spare amp module at the same time.... simple as that. costs less than a spare amp too

[pdarnett]

How about a HK lucas system, plenty of ooomph for 200+ people, nice and easy to setup......Nothing to do with the fact I'm selling one !!!

[abyssdjhire]

lucas systems are overpriced and underpowered... and you also have to use them with the sub, whether you like it or not.

[A1DL]

I'd go for the Mackie SRMs, they are very popular on the mobile scene, we have a number of DJs who use them and are extremely satisfied with the results.

Have a chat to Daz (Solitaire), he also swears by his Mackies

[BeerFunk]

Are any of these suggestions that good??

I mean, I'm having trouble to believe they could stand up to a hall with 200 people in it - particularly if they're only 12" or something...

[A1DL]

Are any of these suggestions that good??

I mean, I'm having trouble to believe they could stand up to a hall with 200 people in it - particularly if they're only 12" or something...

agreed, you'd really need to use with a pair of subs for 200 guests

[abyssdjhire]

you'd IDEALLY need a pair of subs. it all depends what you're doing with them, and what type of speaker you end up with, doesnt it?

[wensleydale]

i don't agree with this- i think most could cope with 200 people- it goes back to my earlier post that people often get carried away and use enough gear to fill twickenham- 200 people is not that many in a hall.

[BeerFunk]

There are many pairs of passive speakers which can perform to 300+ without subs, which is why I asked :)

[A1DL]

There are many pairs of passive speakers which can perform to 300+ without subs, which is why I asked :)

if being used for background music or vocal PA only, then yes, I would agree.

but if performing to that sort of number for general disco / dancefloor applications, then the mid-highs should be positioned to throw above head height, and subs would be needed to reinforce the bottom end.

without getting the positioning of the mid/highs right, with a packed dancefloor, apart from at the front, the sound coverage will be minimal and the quality poor

[alexperrins]

Thanks for all your info. I think what I am planning to do is buy a pair of actives at about 200 watts each and then if need be, also purchase a subwoofer for larger gigs. That way I hopefully have a bit of flexibility. Though I don't fancy carrying three speakers around!

I have definitely taken Wensleydales thoughts on board, I have found in the past I am being deafened by the DJ speakers halfway across the room, let alone on the dance floor and without buying a Bose system, I would imagine 12" speaker system at about 400-500 watts (Mackies, say) would be plenty.

[wensleydale]

can only comment on experience- different venues have different requirements but an average wedding/function should be fine.

my view is if you can get away without subs, then it's well worth choosing speakers that can do the job without and save carrying an extra 2 speakers.

compact and effective- it's the future.

[abyssdjhire]

i don't agree with this- i think most could cope with 200 people- it goes back to my earlier post that people often get carried away and use enough gear to fill twickenham- 200 people is not that many in a hall.

indeed, and lets not forget that some people dont necessarily want to be deafened all night. those that sit at the back often dont want to be right in the middle of the music, they go there to get away from it for a break

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

if being used for background music or vocal PA only, then yes, I would agree.

but if performing to that sort of number for general disco / dancefloor applications, then the mid-highs should be positioned to throw above head height, and subs would be needed to reinforce the bottom end.

without getting the positioning of the mid/highs right, with a packed dancefloor, apart from at the front, the sound coverage will be minimal and the quality poor

I disagree Tony.

You could use a pair of Mackie SRM450s for 200 people dependant on the size of the dance floor. This is where the music is needed in most venues after all, and as you said subs are for re-inforcement. If you put a pair of speakers on stands at head height, you will get more throw and be able to be heard further back. Also the 450 is a full range cab, so when you use them in their own, they are fine. If you run them with subs, you then have a choice of using the high pass out instead of the full range out.

It really depends on the cabs too. I know people's opinions differ when it comes to the Mackies, but I have yet to play a venue (and this includes a large marquee) where the 450s were struggling. They are just extremely loud and very bassy for a 12" cab.

It is hard to describe unless you have heard them. I posted somewhere else about a pair of EV SXA100s I bought from someone on this forum - they have got to be heard to be believed. The sound is slightly better then the 450s and these cabs are 200W RMS! They are very efficient though.

Having said all that, I very rarely use my 450s on their own, preferring to use 1 or 2 subs with them, but only because I prefer the smooth bottom end sound that you get when using subs. This is not to say that you need them volume wise.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

what kam have done with the IMS stuff (amongst others) is try to turn a range of entry level low budget gear into "professional looking" stuff. quite a few manufacturers are doing it now, and for most of the part they are fooling people :(

all it really is, is flashy cases and shells on equipment that used to be in a naff basic box

Just reading back through this thread....

I have a pair of Kam IMS Pro 10s that I use for quizzes, small PA hire and I think you'd be surprised if you heard them to be honest.

I use them with a Behringer powered mixer and the sound is surprisingly good from a 10" speaker.

I think maybe sometimes people need to use a hear equipment before having an opinion on it (Not aimed at you Liam!). I know Tony at A1 is always having a bit of a pop at Behringer gear, but I use the powered desk for karaoke and quizzes, which is brilliant value, great features and excellent build quality.

[abyssdjhire]

i've not heard the 10's... didnt know there was any to be honest, not really the kind of stuff i keep an eye on... but i have heard the larger cabinets and found them muddy... wasnt impressed at all. dunno bout the 10s though.

[alexperrins]

Sorry to bring it up again, just wondered if anybody had any experience with the Wharfedale range - particularly the 12" or 15"?

I had a look at a pair of these Wharfedale EVP-X12Ps today, looked pretty good for the money. (Don't worry Liam, I haven't forgotten.) Anybody got any?

[abyssdjhire]

we use the earlier passive version of the X215 (ie the evp-s215) which are excellent, as are the rest of the range. they have a very nice balanced sound to them.. well recommended

however, the powered version are let down by the amps, which is a shame :( thats what put my off buying some myself.

[alexperrins]

What problems have the amps brought about then? Just wondering!

[abyssdjhire]

not problems as such, just very disappointing stuff. firstly, they're not biamped, which is a big shame as they lose a good deal of efficiency that way. the way they work is basically like the passive versions, only they have an amp bolted on the back.

from what i've heard (from the speakers, not from people) they also seem to run out, and go quite flat when they're pushed. its a real shame, because they're nice speakers in passive form.

the amps just basically take away the actual benefit... as they dont have the biamping, dont REALLY have good enough amps in them, and the amps just make them heavier.

kind of offsets the whole thing, as you could buy the speakers in passive form and power them with a better amp

[alexperrins]

Thanks for the info. A couple of other guys I talked to have said the dbs (basic 200s) are not particularly good for disco work, maybe more of a vocal pa speaker, do you think there is any truth in that?

[abyssdjhire]

to be honest, theyre fine for discos... much better with a sub, obviously. the sensible upgrade would be (as i mentioned before) live 202's.

edit - at your budget, there isnt a HUGE range of speakers that many would class as "good for discos"... but the truth is, its often to get you to spend more. the basic 200's would be fine, but theres better there if you upped the budget a bit. after all, the basic range is, as i mentioned before, the entry level of dB's stuff

[alexperrins]

I've managed to have a look at the spec actually on the wharfedale pro website, and I can’t find anywhere where it states the peak SPLs for the powered versions. Even the available manual available for download is for the passive version, which is useless to me!
See below for more details

http://www.wharfedalepro.com/frames/loudspeaker.evp_xp.html

I have emailed Wharfedale on the subject – apparently their customer service is quite good so I’ll update you!

[abyssdjhire]

read the PM i just sent to you, and the reasons for no SPL's will all make sense, unfortunately!