Starter Light Package

[symo]

OK I am looking at the following as my startup light package.

http://www.decks.co.uk/products/lighting/acme/dynamo_pack

with

http://www.decks.co.uk/products/lighting/lasers/isolution_ilaser

with perhaps one mirrorball mounted in the centre between the scanners. Is this a good initial startup?

[alexperrins]

If you are interested in the dynamos,

look here! (http://www.ebdj.co.uk/shop/product_list.php?terms=dynamo&page_id=search) Can't recommend ebdj enough!

[DMX Will]

The dynamo's are good, but im not convinced you'll have enough light (depending on the size of your venues)

As for the lasers, I would scrap the idea, and spend the £300 on other lights, and maybe add the lasers later on.

A good setup to start with should consist of:

2-4 Scanners
2 Barells
2 fixed projectors/moons (like the Acme Puma/Falcon etc)

Then if you do shows that require the addidional light, or professional look, add some generic lighting (par cans perhaps)

That's my view anyway :)

[DMX Will]

If you are interested in the dynamos,

look here! (http://www.ebdj.co.uk/shop/product_list.php?terms=dynamo&page_id=search) Can't recommend ebdj enough!
Why link them then? lol.

[alexperrins]

They are just a bit cheaper! Lol.

Out of interest, has anybody had any experience with the iColour series - either the 3 or the 4 for DJ work?

[dj_ags]

I would recommend the Acme Dynamos as they are good little effects at an affordable price. However, i wouldn't get the lasers as they are not essential, and i would put that money towards a few more effects.

NJD Datamoons - http://www.djkit.co.uk/acatalog/DMX_Projectors.html
Acme Rovers - www.djkit.co.uk/acatalog/copy_of_Acme_Rover_Scanner_Barrel.html

These scanners are a little more powerful than the Dynamos, as they are 250w scanners, whereas the Dynamo's are only 100w.

Acme Winners - www.djkit.co.uk/acatalog/copy_of_Acme_Winner_Scanner.html

Hope this helps :)

[DMX Will]

Seems we're on the same wave length Scott :)

You pick up a nice bargin on all 3 of those products from CPC, contact Shockwave on this forum for a discount. :)

[dj_ags]

Seems we're on the same wave length Scott :)

You pick up a nice bargin on all 3 of those products from CPC, contact Shockwave on this forum for a discount. :)

Yeah, i think we are. I reckon we were posting at around the same time, just that i spent ages looking for links :teeth:

I had a look through the CPC catalogue yesterday at my cousins, and i was pleasently surprised in how many products they do :omg:

As Will said, worth contacting Shockwave as he can knock you a bit off, as well as getting your MDD discount :teeth:

[DMX Will]

They are just a bit cheaper! Lol.

Out of interest, has anybody had any experience with the iColour series - either the 3 or the 4 for DJ work?

Yeah I have, horrible, horrible, horrible. Take your average 500w garden light from homebase/do it all etc Yeah well put four of them in a box, and you've got the same effect.

These lanterns are floods, which any lighting designer knows is useless unless your lighting a cloth. Acme designed these with bands in mind and not mobile DJs, but personally I wouldn't touch them, and I do a fair amount of band lighting in theatres/ameature venues.

If you are wanting to add some extra colour to your show, to provide light. I would recommend two things:

Either:
- Some par cans, the par 56 short nose arn't too bad for their money at £25 a shot including lamp.
OR:
- The same product but an LED version allowing for colouring mixing

Stay away from the iColour's!

[DMX Will]

I had a look through the CPC catalogue yesterday at my cousins, and i was pleasently surprised in how many products they do :omg:


I was too, last year's catalogue was shocking for lighting. Some good DMX accessories (splitters/converts/combiners) now as well :)

[dj_ags]

I like the iSolution range from Acme. I cannot recommend their range of moonflowers/projectors, scanners, barrels and moving heads enough...but for some reason, they let themselves down in producing the iColour :( but i think they wanted to target bands and live acts with this effect and i personally don't think that it was intended for use by mobile discos :cool:

I haven't seen the iLasers and iBeat (strobes) in the iSolution range so i cannot comment on them. Have any of you seen them in action, and if so, what are your verdicts? :)

[lightspeed]

I had a wee look at the video (http://www.prolight.co.uk/product_more_info.php?hdnProductID=356)
for the i-show is4 flower. Seperate colour/gobo wheel, shutter strobe and al the rest of it. Thinking of getting some in the future. They look great imo!

- Chris

[DMX Will]

I like the iSolution range from Acme. I cannot recommend their range of moonflowers/projectors, scanners, barrels and moving heads enough...but for some reason, they let themselves down in producing the iColour :(

Its because the idea behind the iColour and all the other similar units is to create a stage wash of any colour with one unit. Which is never ever going to work and look good.

Ie: Its a lost cause!

[dj_ags]

I had a wee look at the video (http://www.prolight.co.uk/product_more_info.php?hdnProductID=356)
for the i-show is4 flower. Seperate colour/gobo wheel, shutter strobe and al the rest of it. Thinking of getting some in the future. They look great imo!

- Chris

Yeah, we have got one, and they are a brilliant light effect. The separate gobo and colour wheels provide excellent effects and they fill up the room superbly. We generally place them on t-bars, having them projecting on the dancefloor, which i think adds that extra little effect...but then again, im a little wierd as you lot may have gathered :cool:

However, the video doesn't do themselves much justice as they need slowing down. This is where the CA-8 controller comes in. You plug that in the designated socket and you're away. I must say that the pre-programmed shows are pretty cool but if you're into DMX and like controlling your lights, then i would recommend the iLead controller, also from the iSolution range. However, in saying that, you can change the gobos, colours and mode with the CA-8 controller :)

[DMX Will]

I had a wee look at the video (http://www.prolight.co.uk/product_more_info.php?hdnProductID=356)
for the i-show is4 flower. Seperate colour/gobo wheel, shutter strobe and al the rest of it. Thinking of getting some in the future. They look great imo!

- Chris

"Combined Gobo/ Color wheel GOBO14 Goboswith 12 dichroic colors. "

[alexperrins]

Thanks for your warning! They are a hell of a lot of money for what they are so I did have reservations. I have never used PAR cans before, (I am really new to this game!) Are there issues in powering them and what is the best controller/sequencer on the market to provide basic functions? I really appreciate any help you can give. I apologise for my lack of knowledge!
Alex

[dj_ags]

The iShow 3s are the ones with the combined colour and gobo wheel, whereas the iShow 4 (pictured) is the one with the separated gobo and colour wheels :cool: :teeth:

[dj_ags]

Thanks for your warning! They are a hell of a lot of money for what they are so I did have reservations. I have never used PAR cans before, (I am really new to this game!) Are there issues in powering them and what is the best controller/sequencer on the market to provide basic functions? I really appreciate any help you can give. I apologise for my lack of knowledge!
Alex

That is what we are here to do mate, help :)

Like i said before, ask any questions that you may have and there will always be someone on hand to help you :thumbs_up

In regard to lack of knowledge, we all have to start somewhere, so don't worry :beer:

[DMX Will]

Thanks for your warning! They are a hell of a lot of money for what they are so I did have reservations. I have never used PAR cans before, (I am really new to this game!) Are there issues in powering them and what is the best controller/sequencer on the market to provide basic functions? I really appreciate any help you can give. I apologise for my lack of knowledge!
Alex

Yes! There are issues powering them! If your looking at the Par 56 short cans, they take a 300w lamp, and you really don't want anything for a mobile disco. Most DJ's will use these in multiples of 4, but not normally more than 8.

We use 12 Par 56's short cans and 2 Par 64s Long cans (brighter version) with 500w lamps in. As well as that we also use two CCT 650w Frensels, which is your average theatre lantern.

So if your going to power say 4 par cans at 300w each, thats 1,200 watts in total and 2,400 if your using 8 of them. Which isnt far off the max you can draw from a 13amp socket (you can draw 2990watts in total from a 13a socket). I tend to plug our dimmers into a dedicated DOUBLE socket,leaving the other socket in the double empty, so I can draw enough power.

You'll also need something to "control" the par cans. Either a DMX dimmer pack, which works just like a dmx fixture, except you plug your lights into it, or you could get hold of a normal controller which will just power your par cans. Either way you'll need to look into bulgin cables to connect them (8 pin sockets and plugs designed to hook up 4 lights (like par cans) with one cable.

Let us know if you need more help :teeth:

[DMX Will]

In regard to lack of knowledge, we all have to start somewhere, so don't worry :beer:

With regard to that, and this par can chat, I first started out by rigging up those 4 way boxes into desk lamps (for some reason), my show was desk lamp mania for about a year .... GO ME!

I was 10 :)

[alexperrins]

Sounds complicated! I guess that is why I wondered about the iColours!

Is there anything simpler (other than the traditional but in my opinion rather tacky light sequencer box) that you could perhaps recommend? You mentioned there might be an alternative in LED form?

[Have a disco]

The led versions are selling on Ebay quiet cheaply with a controller I believe, and are the future, as par 56 & 64's do have the annoying habit of being oversensitive. would say goo have a gander see what you think 16,000 colours under DMX control sounds very interesting.

Im personally awaiting LED lightboxes but have yet to meet anyone prepared to build them although a manufacture was interested, but expected me to stump up for the new moulds etc etc the controllers would have been easy to source and linkage to computer would have made messaging a piece of cake with 2 linked a giant message board as well as lightboxes

[CRAZY K]

Just a few thoughts on all the posts--

Coloured Floods can be very effective depending on what kind of show you are putting on.

I use them together with "standard" disco effects for Weddings where I present Barn Dances needing coloured flood lighting on the floor, walls and ceiling and then change to disco effects during the Disco sessions.

I use a NJD 4 channel sound to light unit with override switches so you can have no light, full lights, individual lights on or sound to light for Disco with chase effects, no dimming though. That cost about £70 I think.

Rather than 4 dynamos I bought 2 Dynatwins for about the same price--
I like them because they are compact--

I think Daz can give you an opinion and somewhere for a good price :teeth:

His sounded cheaper than mine!

CRAZY K

[alexperrins]

I did have a look at the Dynatwins actually - looked like a good buy!

LED Par cans sound intersting. I shall have a look into them! Anybody got any?

[symo]

Wow thanks for all the feedback guys, I like the ebdj deal on the dynamo's will hold off on the ilaser for now then.

http://www.ebdj.co.uk/shop/product_info.php?product_id=11563

The above leaves me about £200 on my budget any more suggestions?

Are the dynatwins better value than the dyanamo's?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Just a few thoughts on all the posts--

Coloured Floods can be very effective depending on what kind of show you are putting on.

I use them together with "standard" disco effects for Weddings where I present Barn Dances needing coloured flood lighting on the floor, walls and ceiling and then change to disco effects during the Disco sessions.

I use a NJD 4 channel sound to light unit with override switches so you can have no light, full lights, individual lights on or sound to light for Disco with chase effects, no dimming though. That cost about £70 I think.

Rather than 4 dynamos I bought 2 Dynatwins for about the same price--
I like them because they are compact--

I think Daz can give you an opinion and somewhere for a good price :teeth:

His sounded cheaper than mine!

CRAZY K

Yeah.....

Well, they are good value for money, and are fairly bright, but you need to use them really either as part of a bigger show if using them without smoke, as they wouldn't really cut it on their own.

Probably best to use then with a couple of gobo/moon flower type effects - Datamoons are excellent value.

I use them master and slave, and to be honest, they are quite jerky and way too fast for most styles of music, so get to grips with a DMX controller and they'll look much better. Even used with the CA8, they seem too fast. This however is comparing them to Abstract effects which are a lot smoother and responsive, and also a lot more money!

I do have a piece of video footage, but unfortunately one of my drives on my main office PC has died and that has the main footage on it.....Grrrrrr... :mad:

Anyone any good at data recovery? Anyway that's another story.... :sad:

I got my two at Discoworld for around £280. but that was while they were having a 10% promotion weekend.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Wow thanks for all the feedback guys, I like the ebdj deal on the dynamo's will hold off on the ilaser for now then.

http://www.ebdj.co.uk/shop/product_info.php?product_id=11563

The above leaves me about £200 on my budget any more suggestions?

Are the dynatwins better value than the dyanamo's?

If you want to put your show together quicker, then get the Dynatwins. If you don't have issues with that, then I would get the individual ones.

As suggested the Dynatwins are just that - 2 heads in one box.

[alexperrins]

I haven't got a video of the Dynatwins but there is a video of the Dynamos in action on the web - they are very fast!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2763292650775741837&q=dynamo+acme&hl=en

That should work, hope it helps

[symo]

I have seen the Dynamo's at decks and they are fast which is why I like the idea of the NJD Datamoon paired with them.

[Corabar Entertainment]

Out of interest, has anybody had any experience with the iColour series - either the 3 or the 4 for DJ work?
Yeah I have, horrible, horrible, horrible. Completely disagree! We bought a pair of iColor 3's with controller to try out and are now going to add them to all our rigs.

You can control the colours so that you can mix them and have just about any colour wash you want from white to purple to (you get the idea).... but the other thing is that ou can dim them so you can have as much or as little light a you want.

As mentioned, they are an ideal modern replacement for the old spot chasers, but they are far more versatile. You can use them as band lighting when you are working with a band; you can use them on full white instead of putting the house lights up if you need more light; you can color-wash to co-ordinate with a bride & groom's colour scheme; you can put them on 'spectrum mix' so that they just gently go through the colours of the rainbow (quite nice for slow dances), and you can alter the speed of the fade; all that as well as just putting them on 'chase' to give the same effect as the old spots - and as I've said already - you can have them as bright or as dim as you want.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I have seen the Dynamo's at decks and they are fast which is why I like the idea of the NJD Datamoon paired with them.

That would work well - the only thing I would say about the Datamoons, is that they do seem to have an awful lot of white used with the basic programmes.

[alexperrins]

Thanks for your advice. I had ruled out the iColours after reading some of the posts but now I would like to see them in action. Hope you don’t mind – I’ve PMs you for more info.


Completely disagree! We bought a pair of iColor 3's with controller to try out and are now going to add them to all our rigs.

[abyssdjhire]

i find the icolours and similar stuff a bit naff, but then it depends what kind of effect you want

[alexperrins]

After mixed response from the iColours, can I ask – what starter package would somebody recommend if they were largely doing weddings? (i.e. playing traditional, pop and indie/rock) Scanners could be inappropriate I would have thought if they are fast as they would not compliment the music. Though a couple would obviously be good to liven things up at certain points!

Also, does anybody have any recommendations for lighting when playing music for slow dances? I have had a look at the Acme Aurora, and I guess a mirrorball is always a good look? Any more thoughts on LED par cans?

Thanks!

Alex

[Corabar Entertainment]

i find the icolours and similar stuff a bit naff, but then it depends what kind of effect you wantThey are obviously not a substitute for other lighting effects such as scanners, barrels or whatever you chose - but rather in addition to.

You say that you find them and similar stuff naff. What would you recommend as an alternative, Liam? and why?

[abyssdjhire]

when i said naff, i should really have explained it a bit more. i find them naff for discos etc, as there isnt really anything much for people to see from them... they're basically just a wash of colour which goes right in your eyes 100% of the time.

on a stage, and for bands etc, theyre very good. same applies for uplighting ceilings etc in marquees and so on... so i suppose its not the fixture that i find naff, rather than the common uses.

again it all depends really what you want to do. however that said, we dont really sell the icolour lights any more, we've changed to a showtec unit which is tons more vivid, and looks better in itself. it also functions in a more "sensible" kind of way when dmx'ed

[DMX Will]

Without sounding snobby or arrogant, designers/riggers don't use the iColour units, or anything like them because they don't give off good light due to the type of luminaire the are. As i said before in a previous post, floods were designed to FLOOD cloths, and thus light them up, you then get into beam lights (Par cans etc), and then the more commonly used (in theatre) frensels/PCs, and then your profiles, other wise known as "spots". The hard edge beams that floods create doesn't matter on cloths, as you can see them, but for any purposes (unless your trying to create a hard edge sillouette or something) they're not fit for the job.

If you find they work well for your disco thats okay, I know I wouldn't personally choose them, I'd rather build myself something out of LEDs, which I do, a bit here and there, but mainly in my car!

[abyssdjhire]

Without sounding snobby or arrogant, designers/riggers don't use the iColour units, or anything like them because they don't give off good light due to the type of luminaire the are.

obviously... but then, they're not intended for designers and riggers... they're there to be a low cost solution, which is, as i said above, naff for discos in my opinion.

very good for schools, bands, and so on though that just want basic functionality.

if you wanted the stuff that designers and riggers use, you'd be paying a lot more than a couple of £100s.

[DMX Will]

very good for schools, bands, and so on though that just want basic functionality..

Not really, I'm a tech at a schoool, and I must say I wouldn't buy a set, no matter how small the budget.

Likewise with bands, I do alot with them, and I've never seen results that are good enough.

The idea of a RGB mixing in non-LED light is good in theory, but so far it hasn't been put into good practice

[abyssdjhire]

so i take it you've never used a real colour mixing fixture then? for example the robe colormix 240at? or perhaps the 575at if you want more light....?

how many bands (or schools...) have enough money for either 1. expensive professional CMY mixers, or 2. expensive RGB led mixers? not that many...

i do hate to jump on the "experience" bandwagon, as i in no way agree with it... but how much experience of colour mixing fixtures do you actually have? i'm in no way saying that the icolour etc are good for "high up the scale" and more professional applications, but as a low budget alternative, they're very useful. they flood an area with colour reasonably well, and thats what the purpose is.

again, i'll emphasise the term basic functionality. not everybody wants something with 10 dmx channels, remember? a small band doesnt really want to have a full size control desk for just a few colour washes. they want something they can plug in, point at their band members, and play away without worrying about it.

the thing to remember with LED fixtures is that they're very new, and very expensive. keep in the back of your mind that this:

http://www.thecorestore.com/images/Products/P64LED.jpg

does not really compare with this:

http://www.robe.cz/images/products/ledwash136lt.jpg

before you comment, yes - i know one is a static fixture and the other is not... but i'm talking about the head itself. i just couldnt be bothered to find a high end static led fixture.

just remember... everything has its place, whether its cheap and cheerful or "professional" and expensive.

[DMX Will]

The idea of a RGB mixing in non-LED light is good in theory, but so far it hasn't been put into good practice

I was talking in the budget/DJ range



how many bands (or schools...) have enough money for either 1. expensive professional CMY mixers, or 2. expensive RGB led mixers? not that many...

I could name one, lol. We're a state school, but I make it clear to the faculty that we don't buy ****. I should be having a Strand 300 installed for a mere 30 dimming channels into a drama studio soon. Along with a purpose built mini-theatre aimed for development in 2010.



but how much experience of colour mixing fixtures do you actually have?

I don't have experience with any of the Robe Kit, if im honest, but i've worked with the vari-lite for a bit, and thats no plain sailing, as it runs on its own protocol, and has seperate dimmers, but thats another can of worms.



a small band doesnt really want to have a full size control desk for just a few colour washes. they want something they can plug in, point at their band members, and play away without worrying about it.

Clearly not, however im not a band, im of the variety doing the lights for the band, and wouldn't consider an iColour 3/4.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

so i take it you've never used a real colour mixing fixture then? for example the robe colormix 240at? or perhaps the 575at if you want more light....?

how many bands (or schools...) have enough money for either 1. expensive professional CMY mixers, or 2. expensive RGB led mixers? not that many...

i do hate to jump on the "experience" bandwagon, as i in no way agree with it... but how much experience of colour mixing fixtures do you actually have? i'm in no way saying that the icolour etc are good for "high up the scale" and more professional applications, but as a low budget alternative, they're very useful. they flood an area with colour reasonably well, and thats what the purpose is.

again, i'll emphasise the term basic functionality. not everybody wants something with 10 dmx channels, remember? a small band doesnt really want to have a full size control desk for just a few colour washes. they want something they can plug in, point at their band members, and play away without worrying about it.

the thing to remember with LED fixtures is that they're very new, and very expensive. keep in the back of your mind that this:

http://www.thecorestore.com/images/Products/P64LED.jpg

does not really compare with this:

http://www.robe.cz/images/products/ledwash136lt.jpg

before you comment, yes - i know one is a static fixture and the other is not... but i'm talking about the head itself. i just couldnt be bothered to find a high end static led fixture.

just remember... everything has its place, whether its cheap and cheerful or "professional" and expensive.

So when have you used all this gear then Liam to get these opinions?

[DMX Will]

So when have you used all this gear then Liam to get these opinions?
Yeah I would be interested to know, you only seem to have knowledge of stuff from your sales, not from an on the road use.

And all this banter, doesn't exactly do your shop/web shop any good does it. With your username as your bussiness name, i would have thought you would be acting professionally and on behalf of?

[Corabar Entertainment]

....you'd be paying a lot more than a couple of £100s.If you can do a twin head package and controller for £200, then you've got yourself a sale! :omg:

[symo]

Just a couple of silly questions. What is a moonflower effect? what is a gobo? :confused:

[A1DL]

That would work well - the only thing I would say about the Datamoons, is that they do seem to have an awful lot of white used with the basic programmes.


if memory serves me right, isn't there a dip switch setting you can use to avoid programmes 9 and 10 (9 being the fast rotating whites and 10 being the strobing) ?

[DMX Will]

Just a couple of silly questions. What is a moonflower effect? what is a gobo? :confused:

Gobo - the bit of metal or glass (if its a coloured gobo) that makes the light a certain pattern or picture (ie bubbles, hearts, a hand etc).

A Moonflower, not entirely sure of its actual definition. Although its like a circle of coloured dots/sqaures that spin/move (normally in time with the music) they can be DMX controlled, or sound to light. Rather than gobos, these dots/circles are created with mirrors, normally of different colours, for different colour beams :) :teeth: :teeth:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

if memory serves me right, isn't there a dip switch setting you can use to avoid programmes 9 and 10 (9 being the fast rotating whites and 10 being the strobing) ?

I tried them all for about 10 minutes, got bored and sold them! :teeth:

I then bought a couple of Abstract T4s which don't have quite as much...

[abyssdjhire]

So when have you used all this gear then Liam to get these opinions?


Yeah I would be interested to know, you only seem to have knowledge of stuff from your sales, not from an on the road use.

And all this banter, doesn't exactly do your shop/web shop any good does it. With your username as your bussiness name, i would have thought you would be acting professionally and on behalf of?

to either of you, please point out to me where i've said i've actually used any of it? however as a matter of fact, i have used the majority of what i have mentioned, and yes, i have also seen it in action in the places they have been installed to. that ranges from nightclubs to theaters, so take your pick which you would like to quiz me on next.

i dont actually see where you get your ideas from, will. what gives you the idea that i have no "on the road" experience of the gear? basically, you dont have a clue about my knowledge, do you? you're just making a rather unintelligent guess.

anyway, at the end of the day, what you actually said in short, is that a colour mixing fixture that isnt LED based isnt worth it. you didnt mention budget/dj ranges anywhere, so how is anyone supposed to know what you're talking about? LED colour mixing fixtures are currently nowhere near as developed as traditional mixing fixtures, particularly in the budget/dj ranges.

you may (apparently) be "tech" at a school, and you may not buy **** as you put it... but you still haven't given me the idea that you're using high end gear there. yes, the strand stuff is very good and used widely... but what about these LED fixtures you speak of? give us all some examples of fixtures that give a satisfactory result to you.

as far as our business is concerned, its you that has the problem, and you that is making a point of picking at and correcting things for the sake of it. i'm not going around pretending that i've used every fixture and every piece of kit we sell, and if i haven't used something, i wont go and tell someone that i have.

besides, we could turn the whole thing around and question YOUR "on the road" experience, couldnt we? "all this banter" that you mention is basically you picking at hairs, and me returning it. mobile dj's are a minority of our customers, and quite frankly, if you dont buy an icolour fixture from us, it really doesnt affect me.

[A1DL]

I then bought a couple of Abstract T4s which don't have quite as much...

did you get the HP version Daz?

Abstract are a great company, nice guys too. I remember them from when their early days in a small unit on theoutskirts of Leicester, I went up there just after they took on the Numark UK franchise for a couple of years, must have been around 1994

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

to either of you, please point out to me where i've said i've actually used any of it? however as a matter of fact, i have used the majority of what i have mentioned, and yes, i have also seen it in action in the places they have been installed to. that ranges from nightclubs to theaters, so take your pick which you would like to quiz me on next.

i dont actually see where you get your ideas from, will. what gives you the idea that i have no "on the road" experience of the gear? basically, you dont have a clue about my knowledge, do you? you're just making a rather unintelligent guess.



Why so agressive Liam?

I only asked a question.

I do 'know' a little bit about you, having talked to you at length about different subjects, and yes, I do believe you need to try and test products on the road to have a proper opinion of them.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

did you get the HP version Daz?

Abstract are a great company, nice guys too. I remember them from when their early days in a small unit on theoutskirts of Leicester, I went up there just after they took on the Numark UK franchise for a couple of years, must have been around 1994

I did indeed.


It's a shame they don't really seem to have much of an interest in the DJ market so much anymore.

Very good fixtures though, well built, nice colours and very bright.

In fact, I normally have the lamp saver on, as they are too bright...

[abyssdjhire]

not being intentionally aggressive towards you daz, but im getting a bit ****ed with wills attitude already. since i've been back on here all i've seen is a know-all personality with an answer for everything.

anyway, yes i do agree, you do need to test something in its proper place to have a real opinion of them. most of my opinions are based on that, and the ones that arent are in no way made out to be.

my opinion of the icolours isnt based on the fact that we've sold a few... its based on real life experience, and from that experience i, personally, wouldnt touch them with a barge pole. all i tried to say before i was corrected is that they have their place, particularly in budget and entry level applications. aparently, it would seem i am wrong to say that.

like i said, i dont pretend to be something or somebody im not.

[DMX Will]

i dont actually see where you get your ideas from, will. what gives you the idea that i have no "on the road" experience of the gear? basically, you dont have a clue about my knowledge, do you? you're just making a rather unintelligent guess.

Where do I get my ideas from? You work in a shop selling the gear, and i believe there was a post, just the other day stating you don't do discos.

I don't see you want to have a "pop" at Daz and myself. You don't like others opinions maybe.


mobile dj's are a minority of our customers, and quite frankly, if you dont buy an icolour fixture from us, it really doesnt affect me.

Can't help but feel thats a slightly bad attitude, no matter your position weather you own the company or have a 5 hour shift each week.

Anyway enough. I call peace.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

all i've seen is a know-all personality with an answer for everything.



Perhaps a bit too close to home eh Liam? :teeth: :teeth:

[abyssdjhire]

some might say so daz. will, just because i "work in a shop" selling gear, doesnt mean i dont use it, does it?

what does a post about us not doing discos have to do with anything? we dont... if you dont like my attitude, dont read my posts - i dont like yours either. you call peace, ill call ignore list. good night

[A1DL]

Liam

Out of curiosity, do you actually "stock" or "see" the products that you sell, or is your business an internet project from your bedroom?

The reason I ask this is that your business is registered to a small semi in the Derby sururbs, as opposed to a business premise. I also note from your website you omit your house number 24, possibly not to draw attention to the fact that you haven't got a business premise?

Also, the contact details being just a mobile phone, as opposed to having a land number and a fax, which is commonplace and expected amongst established businesses.


A few questions:


If I were to buy stock from you, would I be able to see before I buy?
Where would I collect from, or are you strictly mail order?
Your website quotes prices, but doesn't mention VAT. Do these prices include VAT, exclude VAT.... or are you not VAT registered?
I assume from the brands you list on your site that you are serviced by Leisuretec or Batmink? I didn't think they granted trade accounts unless you have a businee premise, but perhaps that's changed now?

Please take this post in the spirit it is intended, i.e. to give other forum members a better insight and understanding into your operation.

Best regards

Tony

[Keri]

I honestly give up if i kill myself now i will just save myself so much hassle. People make life not worth the effort.

[DMX Will]

This isnt a dig at all, just a neutral, no alteria-motive question: Why are you hosting your website somewhere other than the internet (as i've noticed your no-ip account)

[A1DL]

I honestly give up if i kill myself now i will just save myself so much hassle. People make life not worth the effort.

Keri

Please don't do that, if you feel that bad give these guys a call.

http://www.samaritans.org.uk/

[abyssdjhire]

tony

to answer your curiosity, no, we dont stock them, we dont have room. but yes, we do see the stuff we sell. we can ship most of it direct, but recommend that instead, people collect it from us where possible.

the reason the house number is omitted is so that people dont break into our precious little abode expecting to find thousands of pounds worth of gear, only to be disappointed.

the contact details should also show an 0845 number, so thanks for pointing that out. however, if you look at the top of the page, and the footer on every page, you will see that number.

if you wanted to see it before you buy it, then no, we're not for you - sorry.

you can collect it from here, or alternatively you can collect it from the middle of tescos carpark, if you like.

no, we are not vat registered, but most likely will have to be very shortly.

as for accounts, you assume correctly, almost. we do have accounts with both leisuretec and batmink, and yes they do allow accounts. if you want to check that with them, feel free. however, you will also find that we have accounts with dB/RCF, highlite, steinigke (inc. omnitronic, eurolite, futurelight), proel, amongst others. you can check with those too, if you like.

i'm not taking the post in any way, just replying to it. if you want any more information just ask.

hope that sums everything up, at least for now. i

ps. the house is not a small semi, it is actually a rather sizey detached.

[A1DL]

tony

to answer your curiosity, no, we dont stock them, we dont have room. but yes, we do see the stuff we sell. we can ship most of it direct, but recommend that instead, people collect it from us where possible.

the reason the house number is omitted is so that people dont break into our precious little abode expecting to find thousands of pounds worth of gear, only to be disappointed.

the contact details should also show an 0845 number, so thanks for pointing that out. however, if you look at the top of the page, and the footer on every page, you will see that number.

if you wanted to see it before you buy it, then no, we're not for you - sorry.

you can collect it from here, or alternatively you can collect it from the middle of tescos carpark, if you like.

no, we are not vat registered, but most likely will have to be very shortly.

as for accounts, you assume correctly, almost. we do have accounts with both leisuretec and batmink, and yes they do allow accounts. if you want to check that with them, feel free. however, you will also find that we have accounts with dB/RCF, highlite, steinigke (inc. omnitronic, eurolite, futurelight), proel, amongst others. you can check with those too, if you like.

i'm not taking the post in any way, just replying to it. if you want any more information just ask.

hope that sums everything up, at least for now. i

ps. the house is not a small semi, it is actually a rather sizey detached



Thanks for clarifying, just a couple of observations

the high end equipment you are selling - I guess most of that goes to companies/organisations as opposed to individuals. But without the ability to issue a VAT invoice? (i.e. you are including the VAT in your price as you are having to pay it but cannot reclaim it - surely that makes your SELLING price to a VAT registered body either (a) negative margin or (b) non-competitive?
strange that no.22 and no.26 are both small semis, which last sold for £39k and £66k respectively

[abyssdjhire]

some of the high end gear goes to individuals, but yes, most to companies and organisations. without me going into how the (extremely) varied margins work, it actually makes no real difference to us.

22 and 26 are indeed semis. ours however is a large detached, with double bay windows either side. was about £65k when we bought it, and is now valued at over £230k, if i remember right. dont really pay much attention to the figures.

[Corabar Entertainment]

[QUOTE=abyssdjhire]the high end equipment you are selling - I guess most of that goes to companies/organisations as opposed to individuals. But without the ability to issue a VAT invoice? (i.e. you are including the VAT in your price as you are having to pay it but cannot reclaim it - surely that makes your SELLING price to a VAT registered body either (a) negative margin or (b) non-competitive?Good point Tony.... Liam, whether or not you NEED to be VAT registered, you will probably find it beneficial to go for voluntary registration. This would mean that you could claim back the VAT element for everything you buy, and your VAT registered customers could claim back the VAT that you charge them.

Worth looking into if you haven't done so already. :teeth:

[abyssdjhire]

yes, angela, i know.

[Keri]

[QUOTE=A1DL]Good point Tony.... Liam, whether or not you NEED to be VAT registered, you will probably find it beneficial to go for voluntary registration. This would mean that you could claim back the VAT element for everything you buy, and your VAT registered customers could claim back the VAT that you charge them.

Worth looking into if you haven't done so already. :teeth:

Already looked into VAT registration ages and ages and ages ago.
some of the high end gear goes to individuals, but yes, most to companies and organisations. without me going into how the (extremely) varied margins work, it actually makes no real difference to us.

22 and 26 are indeed semis. ours however is a large detached, with double bay windows either side. was about £65k when we bought it, and is now valued at over £230k, if i remember right. dont really pay much attention to the figures.


Yup it was 230k i do pay attention.......

[Corabar Entertainment]

yes, angela, i know.
Already looked into VAT registration ages and ages and ages ago.Well, I apologise for teaching my grandmother to suck eggs. Just thought I'd mention it in case you hadn't looked into it. Don't worry, I won't bother making any suggestions that might be viewed by some people as helpful in the future.

BTW - is that the same '0845' number you are using as you got from the link I passed on to you when you couldn't get a landline number and were concerned that only having a mobile number was putting customers off?

[abyssdjhire]

no need to be so defensive, we merely answered the post... and yes, i believe it is the same number.

[Keri]

no need to be so defensive, we merely answered the post... and yes, i believe it is the same number.

We use the number more for ringing people back as we have alot of trouble with it, so really having one on the landline would be better but... that serves its purpose and saves people the cost of ringing us because we have to ring back 90% of the time.

[Corabar Entertainment]

no need to be so defensiveI wasn't being defensive Liam - more irritated. I apologise if your posts were not meant in that way, but they came across to me as dismissive and quite rude.

[abyssdjhire]

I wasn't being defensive Liam - more irritated. I apologise if your posts were not meant in that way, but they came across to me as dismissive and quite rude.

well no, they weren't indended that way... but thats exactly how i'm reading many peoples posts towards me, so that gives you a rough idea of what its like i suppose.

hre have a cat, a telephone, a flower and a lightbulb and that makes everything better - :cat: :phone: :rose: :lightbulb

[dj_ags]

Just to bring this "feud" to a premature halt!

Can we please get back on topic. We have a couple of starter DJs here in Symo and Alexperrins who are asking us for advice about what lighting they could buy to start off with.

Ok, i admit that this has been answered to a degree but can any others offer them advice about what to lighting to buy?

Im sure comments will be appreciated :thumbs_up :)

[soundtracker]

F-E-U-D

P-R-E-M-A-T-U-R-E

H-A-L-T

Please write out ten times each, and you're grounded until you have. There'll be a test next week.

For a start up, get yourself a couple of moonflowers, Acme, Wildtech or Firebird will do nicely, a couple of the nice new LED par cans, and a centre feature,such as the wildtech orbiter. That should get you through most start up gigs for under £300.00
If you decide DJings for you, you can then build on this as the pennies roll in, and improve the set up according to your needs.

Other brands are available! :teeth:

[dj_ags]

F-E-U-D

P-R-E-M-A-T-U-R-E

H-A-L-T

Please write out ten times each, and you're grounded until you have. There'll be a test next week.

:embarasse

I cannot believe i made them mistakes, still my excuse is that its early in the morning and im not "fully" with it this morning :teeth:

[alexperrins]

Thanks! I think that was pretty helpful and straightforward.

I have to say – after looking back through this thread I was actually laughing to myself. All this over a few lights! I can only feel sorry for symo who started it all. Don’t worry mate!

Alex

[soundtracker]

I don't blame you Ags, its all Blair's fault!

[dj_ags]

I don't blame you Ags, its all Blair's fault!

:teeth: LOL :teeth:

And to think i got a B in English language last week :omg:

I just cannot believe that i made them mistakes, but still :)

Anyway, enough of my embarassing spelling mistakes :)

So have you decided on what lights you are going to get Symo and Alex?

[alexperrins]

Not entirely DJ Ags! But I certainly have more of an idea now than before! I have looked at the prolight range quite in depth. Though the only ideas I can get of what they actually look like is from their average (yet a good idea) videos on their site.

Was mainly thinking along the lines of Soundtracker. Couple of moons, centrepiece and par cans or similar (I wouldn’t like to mention the iColours again!!)

My budget isn’t that huge, but I’m only starting off at around 100 – 150 people per gig.

I’m definitely looking into the Ultimax stands as well as they look like a good range.

Plus, someone who shall remain nameless has recommended me so db technologies basic 200s as a start as my budget is only really at the £400 mark, which I know isn’t a lot – but I can hopefully upgrade to the db SUB 12 if that is sensible?

Thanks again

Alex

[symo]

No I think a little healthy debate never hurt anyone.

So thanksfor answering. In around 2 months I will be buying;

Dynamo Pack
2 x NJD Datamoons.
Deckstand (Ideally with starcloth)
1xCDJ1000mk3
PLI Insurance
PAT Testing for the electricals.

Oh and a decent (3k)Volvo to put it in!. Hopefully in time for News/Christmas bookings.

Just out of interest how easy is it to change Gobo's?

[alexperrins]

What speakers are you starting up with Symo, just out of interest?

I have Numark CDN-88s and a Citronic 10:4 (mk2 though nearly new!)
Plus an old Gemini mixer for backup
Shure SM58 (or pG58 I can’t remember which) microphone

Plus I will need..

Lighting – not sure what to get but something similar to above
Deckstand (probably Ultimax, maybe starcloth or customised cloth with logo)

Does anybody know any good t-shirt/cloth makers with personalised logos by the way?

Db technologies Basic 200s or if I can stretch – RCF Art 310s

[symo]

Currently I have a pair of Behringer B1520's and I am getting the matching subs shortly plus a second amp (probably another ep2500) to power them. I already have a CDJ100mk2 which I will be getting a mk3 to match. I have a pair of 1210's mk5 a Allen & Heath Xone 62 and a Rane Empath (Probably use the Allen and Heath for mobile work as the Rane is really my scratch mixer). Still need the list above plus a few other bits and pieces.

The reason I am doing this purely to support my music buying habit :D and I like to make people dance. In my normal time I am a engineer who mixes a heck of a lot of dnb but I can't see that going down to well at a wedding :D.

I am also moving to Exeter so I am hoping that with all the hotels and such in Devon there is going to be a bit of work available.

The irony is I bought these speakers on Ebay as a friend of mine was having a bash in her back garen in Streatham and no-one there believed how much I payed for them (£130). Because they were all musicians etc (plus 3 sound engineers) I felt quite complimented. But as soon as I thought about it, this was the excuse I needed to get this little busines together.

[alexperrins]

I’m doing it for the music too. My passion is house music and I can’t afford to buy record upon record on vinyl at £5 - £7 quid a go - so as I have a growing CD collection I thought I’d give mobile DJing a try. I don’t really expect to make much money in the short run, but I hope my passion for music and seeing people dance to what I’m playing will make me a little extra on the side in a few months. Obviously if I could do it full time and make my living through music I would be a happy man!