Why ban Soundcloud?

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Genuine question to the Mods/Admins?

I can understand the copyright issue and agree with your stance if the poster has the "Download" link enabled on their mix, but if its disabled then I cant see the issue...it then becomes no different to posting YouTube links.

Just a thought, but why not allow it with the very specific instruction that enabling the mix to be downloaded will not be tolerated on the forum?

Steve

:beer1:

[Happy Jack]

Thanks for putting this up Steve. I was a little baffled, as my post was screened and the clip was only meant to be demonstrative. I'd rather not up to Youtube to be honest just for the purposes of streaming a small audio clip, so I'd be curious to know if there are another other suggestions apart from hosting it on our server and linking it there?

[Shaun]

I'm not familiar with the site but if people have posted mixes that are streamed/broadcasted then I presume there would need to be some some sort of licensing involved? It's possible that it's all above board and were being overly-cautious, but until we've had time to look into this further then we've instructed our moderators not to allow sound cloud links for the time being.


Thank you for your patience and understanding. Hopefully we'll have a definite answer soon for you.

[Shaun]

I've had a very brief look..

From soundcloud.....


Am I allowed to upload any audio & music file to my account?
You may upload your originally created audio and/or music files to which you hold all appropriate permissions and rights. If you're not sure if you have all necessary rights, please review our terms of use and community guidelines below:
http://soundcloud.com/terms-of-use
http://soundcloud.com/community-guidelines Permalink Back to top

As far as I can see you need to have the rights or correct liscensing to upload and broadcast any recordings that are copyrighted. As far as I can see it's a legal minefield at first glance. I'll read the the site in more detail when I have more time and hopefully be able to give a more definitive answer to the OP.

[Ecstatic Events]

It may be a legal minefield. But I am almost certain MDD would not be breaking ANY laws regarding copyright if they allowed members to share thier "soundcloud" links.

Could we have a "soundcloud" sub forum? Pretty please ;)

[Shaun]

Could we have a "soundcloud" sub forum? Pretty please ;)

A few posts in and we appear to be going around in circles already. :p


Until we've had time to look into this further then we've instructed our moderators not to allow sound cloud links for the time being.

[Ecstatic Events]

A few posts in and we appear to be going around in circles already. :p

I wouldnt say you were going round in circles.

Im just in favour of sharing links and really see no "legal" complications for MDD in doing so :cool:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

You obviously aren't listening to what Shaun has posted, so I am closing this thread until we have had time to discuss it.

[Shaun]

Just to wrap this up...


No soundcloud (or similar) links either directly or via facebook etc are to be posted on the forum. Sorry.

Posting mixes without the permission of the copyright holder is still illegal here in the UK. Maybe someday the UK will adopt a fair usage policy similar to the one in the US, but as it currently stands posting mixes of your sets (whether streamed or downloadble) isn't entirely legal unless you have permission from the copyright holder.

For the above reason we cannot allow soundcloud (or similar) links. Whilst I'd also enjoy hearing mixes of our members, the MDD has always strived to promote best practice, especially when it comes to legality within our industry. So untill the law changes we just can't allow it.

I know it's not the answer people want to hear but it is what it is. Sorry. :(

[Ecstatic Events]

Facebook are basically screwed then - Most of my DJ friends are constantly sharing soundcloud links on Facebook.

I dont personally have a soundcloud account that I upload mixes to. However, I'd be interested in hearing fellow forum members work.

Could we perhaps start a thread detailing peoples soundcloud usernames (no links)

For example - Mine is removed by the admin

[Shaun]

Facebook are basically screwed then - Most of my DJ friends are constantly sharing soundcloud links on Facebook.

I dont personally have a soundcloud account that I upload mixes to. However, I'd be interested in hearing fellow forum members work.

Could we perhaps start a thread detailing peoples soundcloud usernames (no links)

For example - Mine is REMOVED

You're still posting details via MDD of how to reach copyright material being shared, which we won't allow. No matter what 'workaround' may be suggested our stance is firm. Any links, or pointers in the direction of copyrighted material will be removed.

[Shaun]

I was going to leave this discussion open, but since some members are still trying to think of ways around it I have no choice but to close the discussion.

The MDD has provided our stance regarding this matter, and the decision is final.

[Shaun]

Ok,

Thanks to Martin (funkymook) we may have found a compromise.

Mixcloud.

Here's their FAQ's. http://www.mixcloud.com/faq/#link1.



As all content posted on the MDD has to be checked by the moderators (to make sure it's family friendly) we don't have time to check all mixes. So if we go ahead with allowing this, mixes will only be allowed to be shared via the MDD supporters area, we could also add a sub forum in that section for mixes if there's enough interest.

Comments?

[Shaun]

I guess all the people that wanted to share mixes weren't that bothered after all.

[Corabar Entertainment]

Funnily enough, I was thinking something similar.

Issues are raised, several people moan about not being able to share their mixes, we go off and spend time trying to come up with something as a compromise that's legal, and no-one can even be bothered to comment when we do!

Makes you think that some people just like moaning and complaining, doesn't it? (Surely not! :p :p :p :p :p )

[Dynamic Entertainment]

I guess all the people that wanted to share mixes weren't that bothered after all.

Lol...just caught up with this :D

[Ecstatic Events]

I guess all the people that wanted to share mixes weren't that bothered after all.

I mentioned this to you Shaun via email - Soundcloud is not just about sharing "mixes" it's primary use is for artists to promo their OWN material. I fully understand you cannot police this, and that is the reason you will not allow the MDD members to share links. :D

Sharing mixes is a bit old hat anyhow, personally I'm really not that bothered about listening to "mix cds" from *wannabe DJ's nowadays.

*This is not directed at ANY forum member.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

geez....

[Mark Wild]

Sharing mixes is a bit old hat anyhow, personally I'm really not that bothered about listening to "mix cds" from *wannabe DJ's nowadays.

*This is not directed at ANY forum member.

Put up or shut up :D

[Shaun]

Put up or shut up :D

Soundcloud mixes are not allowed on the forum, so I've had to delete your thread in the supporters. An alternative has been mentioned above.

[Shaun]

I mentioned this to you Shaun via email - Soundcloud is not just about sharing "mixes" it's primary use is for artists to promo their OWN material. I fully understand you cannot police this, and that is the reason you will not allow the MDD members to share links. :D


The issue is members wanting to share their mixes that they don't own copyright of. So your post is a moot point!

However, we've found an alternative site (see post #13 above) where members can share their mixes legally.

[Mark Wild]

As all content posted on the MDD has to be checked by the moderators (to make sure it's family friendly) we don't have time to check all mixes. So if we go ahead with allowing this, mixes will only be allowed to be shared via the MDD supporters area, we could also add a sub forum in that section for mixes if there's enough interest.

Comments?

I'm confused..... No I'm not, it's bloody mixcloud not sound :daft:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I'm confused..... No I'm not, it's bloody mixcloud not sound :daft:

Dullard...:boxer2: :D

[Mark Wild]

Dullard...:boxer2: :D

I thought I was losing the plot there for a minute :o and I bet when Shaun saw my soundcloud mix post go up he called me bad things lol :D

[Shaun]

I thought I was losing the plot there for a minute :o and I bet when Shaun saw my soundcloud mix post go up he called me bad things lol :D

Not at all. I thought "poor Mark must have missed my post in this thread". And I felt really really bad about having to delete your post.


Honest guv'ner...I did! :ph34r:

[Ecstatic Events]

I guess all the people that wanted to share mixes weren't that bothered after all.


geez....

Oh dear - chipping in again to stir things up - Please ellaborate on you "geez" - it's open to allsorts of misinterpretation :mad:


Put up or shut up :D

I'll shut up for the time being - Until I've finished listening to your mix - It's streaming now :D :D :D :D


The issue is members wanting to share their mixes that they don't own copyright of. So your post is a moot point!

However, we've found an alternative site (see post #13 above) where members can share their mixes legally.

I'm not mentioning this subject EVER again...

[Corabar Entertainment]

I'm confused..... No I'm not, it's bloody mixcloud not sound :daft:To summarise, mixcloud is UK-centric and has been licensed in the UK and is therefore legal. Soundcloud is not.


I bet when Shaun saw my soundcloud mix post go up he called me bad things lol :D


Not at all. I thought "poor Mark must have missed my post in this thread". And I felt really really bad about having to delete your post. You might have.... I didn't :p :p :p :D


I'm not mentioning this subject EVER again...Why? We've found a legal alternative and a way round it all for you now!

[Shaun]

I'm not mentioning this subject EVER again...



Why? We've found a legal alternative and a way round it all for you now!

I don't think he's interested anyway (see quote below)


Sharing mixes is a bit old hat anyhow, personally I'm really not that bothered about listening to "mix cds" from *wannabe DJ's nowadays.


It kind of makes you wonder whe felt the need to comment at all on the issue if that's what he thought all along. Quite possibly answered by one of your comments earlier Angela.


Makes you think that some people just like moaning and complaining, doesn't it?


Cynical...moi?

[Creature]

I cant see what all the fuss is about - someone posted something that Admin/Mods thought might cause them/ the forum legal problems, so they deleted the links

Surely thats fair enough - after all sure most would complain if this forum was shut down !

Its no secret that this forum does NOT promote ALLOW illegal material and everybody on here knows that as it has been made very clear by the boards Admins.

now can we move on to something interesting please :)

[Mark Wild]

I cant see what all teh fuss is about - someone posted something taht Admin/Mods thought might cause them/ teh forum legal problems, so they deleted the links

Surely thats fair enough - after all sure most would complain if this forum was shut down !

Its no secret that this forum does NOT promote ALLOW illegal material and everybody on here knows that as it has been made very clear by the boards Admins.

now can we move on to something interesting please :)

Thanks for the input :)

[Happy Jack]

However, we've found an alternative site (see post #13 above) where members can share their mixes legally.
A fantastic platform for mixes. Although the clips I put up would not be permitted.


We accept all types of radio content from talk to music shows (that have 5 tracks or more) in mp3 format.



I'm not mentioning this subject EVER again...
I'm glad it came up as it has wiped a few misconceptions of my own. US 'fair use' and UK 'fair dealing' are two distant cousins. However, even with that in mind, this did jump out of the CDPA 1988 -

30 (1) Fair dealing with a work for the purpose of criticism or review, of that or another work or of a performance of a work, does not infringe any copyright in the work provided that it is accompanied by a sufficient acknowledgement [F1 and provided that the work has been made available to the public].

As a demonstration of a particular technique, prefixed with the dialog and the prompt for a 'real world example', would that constitute a 'review'?

What about section 32 (1) Copyright in a literary, dramatic, musical or artistic work is not infringed by its being copied in the course of instruction or of preparation for instruction, provided the copying—

(a)is done by a person giving or receiving instruction

and provided that the instruction is for a non-commercial purpose.

[Ecstatic Events]

I don't think he's interested anyway (see quote below)



It kind of makes you wonder whe felt the need to comment at all on the issue if that's what he thought all along. Quite possibly answered by one of your comments earlier Angela.

WTF? This is getting a bit silly - What is your problem with me and all this personal "he" business? Is it because I sent you a PM about the matter?

Other forum members bought up the subject about sharing mixes, and I PERSONALLY didnt see an issue with sharing soundcloud usernames. Although I respected the forums wishes on this subject and left it alone.

I would love to HEAR PERSONAL PRODUCTIONS FROM MEMBERS OF THE FORUM - NOT necessarily mixes. And soundcloud would be the place for this. I've listened to god knows how many "mix tapes" during my years as a promoter... and most "mix cds" are garbage.

[Mark Wild]

"mix tapes"

Ah those were the days and flyers on your bedroom wall......

[Corabar Entertainment]

I would love to HEAR PERSONAL PRODUCTIONS FROM MEMBERS OF THE FORUM - NOT necessarily mixes. And soundcloud would be the place for this. I've listened to god knows how many "mix tapes" during my years as a promoter... and most "mix cds" are garbage.Not being antagonistic here - genuine question (since I am completely clueless on this subject, having no interest in any of it), but can you explain why the compromise we have suggested - ie the UK-centric Mixcloud would not be suitable for this?

[Happy Jack]

In fact, those who were not witness to the exchange can have a read from post # 68 here, as this seems to be going off on another tangent...

http://www.forum.mobilediscodirectory.co.uk/showthread.php?t=33051&page=7

I do not have an issue with this, I'm not trying to stir things up, it's just, as far as I am aware, my post in that thread was the catalyst for this debate.

I was glad to be able to lend a little weight to my words with an example people could listen to, Martin in particular. The fact I mentioned I would be uploading to Soundcloud was not pulled and was, at the time, something of a 'knee jerk' reaction; a convenient place to store and share the clips. Via Soundcloud, I appreciate that is something you cannot endorse being that the example tracks I used are not of my making. It was only attempt to validate what I had discussed, and something that would not be permitted via Mixcloud for the reason I mention above.

[funkymook]

The option of Mixcloud is offered for discussion but for some reason no real interest (or even thanks) has been shown for us looking into it.

I'm disappointed, I honestly thought there was a bit more to some people on here. :(

[Mark Wild]

The option of Mixcloud is offered for discussion but for some reason no real interest (or even thanks) has been shown for us looking into it.

I'm disappointed, I honestly thought there was a bit more to some people on here. :(

You drama queen :p

Well I misread it all initially :o I joined mixcloud but my mix was over its limit of 100 meg. It'd be great if forum members put something together for us to hear via mixcloud, whatever their genre, mixed or not. I'm always interested to hear what other DJ's are into.

[Shaun]

You drama queen :p


I know your comment was in jest, but I'll comment anyway. :p

In fairness I don't think he is being a drama queen. Martin took a lot of time looking for alternatives to help the members out, and provided us with an alternative to put forward that would benefit the members. On top of that he took even more time to convince the admins to give the alternative a go, despite some reservations. So with that in mind I think his earlier post and comments are fair. I can understand why he feels a little deflated by the response.

[Mark Wild]

I know your comment was in jest, but I'll comment anyway. :p

In fairness I don't think he is being a drama queen. Martin took a lot of time looking for alternatives to help the members out, and provided us with an alternative to put forward that would benefit the members. On top of that he took even more time to convince the admins to give the alternative a go, despite some reservations. So with that in mind I think his earlier post and comments are fair. I can understand why he feels a little deflated by the response.

Fair play to the Mook and thanks for taking the time. :beer1:

[funkymook]

Fair play to the Mook and thanks for taking the time. :beer1:

That's OK......now everyone just leave me alone......sob!





:D

[Ecstatic Events]

Ah those were the days and flyers on your bedroom wall......

Oh yes! Those were definitely the days ;)


Not being antagonistic here - genuine question (since I am completely clueless on this subject, having no interest in any of it), but can you explain why the compromise we have suggested - ie the UK-centric Mixcloud would not be suitable for this?

My personal opinion is that Souncloud is a preferred platform for artists to share thier work. A bit like favouring Facebook to Myspace, Bebo etc for social networking. I think that might be the main reason behind the lack of response. But what do I know :)


The option of Mixcloud is offered for discussion but for some reason no real interest (or even thanks) has been shown for us looking into it.

I'm disappointed, I honestly thought there was a bit more to some people on here. :(

I'm sure your efforts are appreciated. I don't really have anything current to share, or I'd of been all over it!!!