Denon 2500 freezing

[Fullforceeventsltd]

Had a few probs with the Denon 2500 over the last few gigs.

Playing background music on continous one one side for 20 - 30 mins. No problems, all playing as usual. Go to use other channel to cue up and load a track and it freezes for about 1 minute and wont do anything even though it's still playing the background music on the other channel without any issues.

It's like it's gone on standby and takes a while to come back to life.

It only happens when your playing tracks over a period on one side for lengthy background type stuff and not using the denon why it's playing the long background stuff. When you go to use it itaskes a while to do anything.

If I'm using the denon all time and loading a track in one side and playing off the other it's fine. The issue only seems to happen if your leaving the denon playing one one side for over a period.

Is this normal? Or any ideas what it is. All music is from an external 1tb hard drive connected to a powered 4 way USB port.

[Excalibur]

I can't explain it, or understand it, but it sounds like the HD is sleeping. Which doesn't make sense, because it's feeding the other side. :daft:

The simpleton's fix would be to set both sides playing continuous, and leave the fader down on one side. I do know that one member on here has had issues with the drive sleeping while inactive, but that was with both sides idle.

The Technocrats may be able to tell a way to ban the HD from sleeping, but like I said, I'm a simpleton.:o :o :o :o

[Fullforceeventsltd]

Lol, that's what I have done so far to overcome the problem. I've loaded the other side and left it playing with volume down just to stop it from not responding.

[Vectis]

it sounds like the HD is sleeping.


I would have concurred, until I read


it freezes for about 1 minute

Now if the OP had said 'about 20 seconds' then I'd definitely finger the drive spin-down (especially if the unnamed external drive is Western Digital as these are the biggest culprits).



Which doesn't make sense, because it's feeding the other side. :daft:


Actually it can make sense ... now bear in mind I have no working knowledge of the Denon kit but plenty of Numark experience. The Numark boxes (d2/dds etc.) all pull the file from the HDD and convert it to it's own internal format for playout. Said format I believe is akin to .wav (ie uncompressed) which is why picking a large-ish MP3 takes 5-10 seconds to pull in from disk, whereas a WAV can be quicker, despite being bigger. On playout the file is then streamed from internal RAM.

So, Deck 1 loads a long-ish track (longer than the disk spin-down setting) so that when deck 2 is accessed there's the inevitable wait whilst the disk spins again.

The 'do nothing' workaround is to always have deck 2 cued in advance.

The 'root cause' workaround is to determine the manufacturer and model of the HDD, get online and find the method for disabling spin-down. With most WD's and some Seagates there is some utility software you can download, shove onto a Windoze machine, attach the drive and tweak it from there. But the process does vary so be careful to match the drive and software.

HOWEVER the "1 minute" thing worries me. If it really is a minute and not an exaggeration, then the above could well be misleading.
:beer1:

[Fullforceeventsltd]

Yeah it's definitely about a minute if not a bit more. The drive is a Hitachi Simpledrive 1tb

[Excalibur]

The 'do nothing' workaround is to always have deck 2 cued in advance.



Vectis, I was agreeing with every keystroke you'd made, and marvelling at your wisdom, until this point.

I forget lots of things nowadays, but I seem to remember NKR moaning that his Denon would "Hibernate" while Kev was singing, even with tracks cued on both sides.

Being a simpleton in these matters, I offered my standard reponse:

Leave the faders down, and both sides running. ;)

Vectis, I'm not clever enough to tell the HD to stay awake, so I keep prodding it with a stick. :o :o :o :o :o

[Vectis]

The drive is a Hitachi Simpledrive 1tb


Google 'hitachi', 'simpledrive', 'spin' and 'down' in the same search. And weep.

There's a clue in the phrase "value oriented storage" that suggests it's probably not the type of kit for business critical use. Unless you have oodles of backup.

[Excalibur]

Google 'hitachi', 'simpledrive', 'spin' and 'down' in the same search. And weep.

There's a clue in the phrase "value oriented storage" that suggests it's probably not the type of kit for business critical use. Unless you have oodles of backup.

Vectis, you don't half burst some bubbles, mate. :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

There was this simple old DJ thinking bout buying one, becuase it said " Simple". ;)

Catch me buying anything that says "Complex", "Involved", or "Quite tricky"? Not likely. :D :D :D :D

[Twinspin]

Im getting rid of mine when i can afford to.

[Fullforceeventsltd]

Even if one track is cued up on the other side it still freezes after playing for a while.

The only cure I've found is to leave another track playing with volume down.

I do have 4 back ups of my hard drive.

Would you suggest a different drive that may be more suitable?

Cheers for advice so far.

[Vectis]

Even if one track is cued up on the other side it still freezes after playing for a while.

The only cure I've found is to leave another track playing with volume down.

I do have 4 back ups of my hard drive.

Would you suggest a different drive that may be more suitable?

Cheers for advice so far.


I'm not really in a position to recommend a suitable drive, having never used Denon and understood its foibles. But it does seem clear that you may be suffering as a result of the spindown and power saving processes this drive brings.

I have successfully used the Freecom range of Toughdrive Pro's with the Numark d2/DDS/iDJ kit for the best part of 3 years without these issues. The one time I attached a WD MyBook directly to the d2 (a backup drive) I experienced 10-15 second startup stutters after a drive spindown. On this occasion there was a utility freely available on the web to switch off the spindown, which I applied, and the problem went away.

So in my mind, in order to eliminate this possibility, you need to either

a) find a utility for your drive that makes it spin continually;
b) swap out the drive for one that spins continually (or is SSD / Flash)

A quick and cheap test is to use a flash thumb drive in the same USB port. Load it up with the same set of tracks that have proved problematic and try to reproduce.


HTH.
:beer1:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I have successfully used the Freecom range of Toughdrive Pro's with the Numark d2/DDS/iDJ kit for the best part of 3 years without these issues.

I couldn't get mine working with my Denon when I used it. :(

[Corabar Steve]

Might be a long shot, but have you thought of defragging the drive?

[Fullforceeventsltd]

I haven't defragged the drive - might be worth a try as there is a lot of music on there.

[Corabar Steve]

It solved the issues I was having with My HD2500

[Fullforceeventsltd]

Defo worth a go

[Excalibur]

I couldn't get mine working with my Denon when I used it. :(

My Cortex wouldn't accept one, until: I applied Excalibur's Three Golden Rules. The Freecom is one of the few USB powered drives with a power socket. The power supply from a Belkin hub was a compatible connector, and correct voltage. Result: Compliance with the rules, and the Cortex loved it.



Might be a long shot, but have you thought of defragging the drive?


It solved the issues I was having with My HD2500

Not something I've ever tried. My oldest drive currently in use has probably been going for over three years, never been defragged, and doesn't suffer sleep or playback problems.

Steve, I wonder if your drives being FAT 32 has a bearing? Mine are all NTFS.

[Corabar Steve]

Steve, I wonder if your drives being FAT 32 has a bearing? Mine are all NTFS.
It's possible I suppose

[WWDJ]

It's possible I suppose

Denon HD2500 doesnt support NTFS so it isn't that.

[Vectis]

I wonder if your drives being FAT 32 has a bearing? Mine are all NTFS.

NTFS drives which are essentially written once and then appended gradually are unlikely to frag as much as a FAT32 drive when used with this type of hardware. Reason? The device can't write back to the drive, so no clutter from cuepoint and similar data, which to be fair tend to be numerous tiny files.

Files must occupy at least one block on a HDD irrespective of size. So a 1K file on a drive with 4K blocks will occupy 4K. As will a 4K file. A 5K file will occupy two blocks. And so on.

When you have a device splurging and deleting lots of small files across a drive, this can quickly cause fragmentation issues.

But to be honest, unless you're continually writing and rewriting the BIG files (ie the media files (mp3s/whatever)) then they themselves oughtn't become fragmented as such.

So it all comes down to drive husbandry.

Another good reason to use NTFS or HFS if you're in the mac/numark world.

[Excalibur]

Denon HD2500 doesnt support NTFS so it isn't that.

Errr, you're not reading carefully, are you?

Originally Posted by Excalibur
Steve, I wonder if your drives being FAT 32 has a bearing? Mine are all NTFS.

Steve's drives are indeed FAT32, because it's all his Denon will accept.

Mine are NTFS, because I use Cortex 1000/Numark D2, and because I'm a sceptical old git.

[Corabar Steve]

Thanks for saving me from pointing out the obvious Peter :sj:

[WWDJ]

Thanks for saving me from pointing out the obvious Peter :sj:

It's been a long day sorry :D

[Excalibur]

So it all comes down to drive husbandry.

Another good reason to use NTFS or HFS if you're in the mac/numark world.

Vectis, I love how you give chapter and verse on my empirical findings. Thank you.

And it's even better when I can understand your posts. :D

And finding out that you are broadly in accordance with my views, well it just doesn't get any better than that. :D

[NKR]

Vectis, I was agreeing with every keystroke you'd made, and marvelling at your wisdom, until this point.

I forget lots of things nowadays, but I seem to remember NKR moaning that his Denon would "Hibernate" while Kev was singing, even with tracks cued on both sides.

Being a simpleton in these matters, I offered my standard reponse:

Leave the faders down, and both sides running. ;)

Vectis, I'm not clever enough to tell the HD to stay awake, so I keep prodding it with a stick. :o :o :o :o :o

Yeah mine likes a nap and did it again tonight and would not come back to life until it was turned off and on again (emergency repair procedure 1). Never had it half sleep though.

[Twinspin]

During the last song at last nights gig my hd2500 threw a wobbler. I am going to use it for tommorow nights gig and if it kicks off again ive got all my cd's with me.

Then ill look at getting either a denon hc4500 or a denon mc6000 next week before next saturdays job.

[deltic]

During the last song at last nights gig my hd2500 threw a wobbler. I am going to use it for tommorow nights gig and if it kicks off again ive got all my cd's with me.

Then ill look at getting either a denon hc4500 or a denon mc6000 next week before next saturdays job.

oh goody john i could do with a 2500 for spares.:D

[Twinspin]

oh goody john i could do with a 2500 for spares.:D

The hd2500 comes complete with a free sledgehammer which has been used many times :D :p

[deltic]

The hd2500 comes complete with a free sledgehammer which has been used many times :D :p

just put mine on the 1400 firmware,can't wait to see what that does to it.:D

[Twinspin]

Ive just got the internal hardisk working again. Trying it out as we speak. I installed V1400 a while ago on this one.

There is a few changes from the original firmware.

[Excalibur]

just put mine on the 1400 firmware,can't wait to see what that does to it.:D

Better things than 1300, apparently. ;) :eek:

[deltic]

Better things than 1300, apparently. ;) :eek:

was only on 1050

[Twinspin]

On the original firmware on the hd2500 i noticed the text scrambled up sometimes on the screen. It was V1400 that stopped this happening.

I still fancy moving over onto a HC4500 or the MC6000 denon. Something more reliable as a primary playout to replace the hd2500