electrical phases

[Thames Valley Discos]

does anyone know, if i run my mixer and pc through one ups, and amp through another ups. would this cause any problems. would they be on a different electrical phase. couyld do with an answer before i buy two ups,s. reason for two is, it works out cheaper to buy two 1500va types than it is to buy a 3000va. because amp draws a lot, i want that on another ups.

[A1DL]

does anyone know, if i run my mixer and pc through one ups, and amp through another ups. would this cause any problems.

I can't see why it would, except remember the UPS running the mixer and PC will be drawing very little power, whereas the UPS running the amplifier/s will in comparison be drawing loads (assuming they're not idle) and in the event of an outage the amplification UPS may only last a couple of minutes.



would they be on a different electrical phase. couyld do with an answer before i buy two ups,s. reason for two is, it works out cheaper to buy two 1500va types than it is to buy a 3000va. because amp draws a lot, i want that on another ups.

If you are coming out of the wall on 13s next to or adjacent to each other, most probably not, (but not definitely not)

If you are running off a 3phase distro, then you'll be able to see / choose whether they are.

Although I'm not too sure of the relevance of the question - perhaps you can elaborate.


HTH

Tony:beer:

[DMX Will]

No, they wouldn't be on another electrical phase.

A phase of electricity is basically a line in from the local power station (or more likely sub-station). If a venue has more than one phase (larger venues only) you won't find more than one phase in the same room*, simply because it scares electricains to high hell. This is because with each phase you then get another 230v, so say you had a band or dj on a stage being powered by two sockets, each on a different phase...you instantly have 415v flying round the place....which simply isnt safe.

So no your UPS wouldn't be on different phases if your plugging them into the same phase (which is almost impossible to do)

* - with exclusion of venues that have larger sound systems and lighting systems (inc theatres/large function rooms) - so basically only in 13a/basic lights on the ceiling type situations

[Thames Valley Discos]

Yes, i,m getting them for use with gennies. To regulate the output. I,m not fussed about the lights, but the electronics i am. According to QSC tech, they say the rmx at normal full power with light just clipping draws about 3-4.5 A depending wether 4ohm or 8ohm load. So i want that on one ups, the mixer/pc on another. Its not really for the backup, more for a clean electrical supply.

[DMX Will]

Yes, i,m getting them for use with gennies. To regulate the output. I,m not fussed about the lights, but the electronics i am. According to QSC tech, they say the rmx at normal full power with light just clipping draws about 3-4.5 A depending wether 4ohm or 8ohm load. So i want that on one ups, the mixer/pc on another. Its not really for the backup, more for a clean electrical supply.

In that case each gennie = one phase :)

If you have intelligent lighting/anything that isnt a bulb and a plug then you'll need it to run off clean power too

[Thames Valley Discos]

anything that isnt a bulb? dont most lights use bulbs? if the power drops, surely lights will just dimm. i realise the gennie is one phase, but would the two ups,s be in sync, or could they output at different phases


oh, mis read your reply. I think lights will have to go direct to gennie, otherwise i,ll need atleast one 3000va,

[DMX Will]

anything that isnt a bulb? dont most lights use bulbs? if the power drops, surely lights will just dimm. i realise the gennie is one phase, but would the two ups,s be in sync, or could they output at different phases


oh, mis read your reply. I think lights will have to go direct to gennie, otherwise i,ll need atleast one 3000va,

A phase is another line of electricity, and in this case is impossible as the root of the power is from the same source.

Anything thats not a just bulb - ie has electronics to spin a gobo motor or mirror etc.

[Thames Valley Discos]

Anything thats not a just bulb - ie has electronics to spin a gobo motor or mirror etc.
yeah sorry, mis read your reply.

interesting fact, i got my home pc and tft monitor pluged into a power checker, and it only takes 0.9-1 amp. thought it would be more. approx 220va

[A1DL]

No, they wouldn't be on another electrical phase.


Will, I don't want to be pedantic matey, but that is a very dangerous assumption. I said they PROBABLY wouldn't, but without current venue wiring diagrams or visual inspection, you cannot say 100% they would be on the same phase.



you won't find more than one phase in the same room*, simply because it scares electricains to high hell. This is because with each phase you then get another 230v, so say you had a band or dj on a stage being powered by two sockets, each on a different phase...you instantly have 415v flying round the place....which simply isnt safe.


You will often find more than one phase in one room, typically air conditioning, lighting and 13a sockets will be on different phases.

Sometimes you will see "415v between sockets" (or the like) labels attached where say, light switches are close to heater switches in public areas.

In entertainment, the old "two metre rule" has long fallen by the wayside. I'm looking at a rack of 3phase dimmer packs right now, 415v is perfectly safe and socapex are rated up to 600v, i.e it's perfectly safe to patch off different legs down the same soca into a splitter box. 415v is perfectly safe if treated with respect and understanding. Remember 240v can kill you :omg:

[Thames Valley Discos]

If a room runs on two ring mains, then would that not be a different phase?
And its not the voltage that kills, its the current, hence a fuse rated at 32a, and not 100A provided to the main box.a vandergraph generator puts out a lot more than 600v, and that dont kill

But i,m off the point now, it was just the outputs from two ups,s not the inputs to them i was concerned about.

[A1DL]

anything that isnt a bulb? dont most lights use bulbs?

No, they use lamps :D

[A1DL]

If a room runs on two ring mains, then would that not be a different phase?


It may be, look at the distribution board & you will see.

Lots of smaller venues only have single phase power.

[DMX Will]

Will, I don't want to be pedantic matey, but that is a very dangerous assumption. I said they PROBABLY wouldn't, but without current venue wiring diagrams or visual inspection, you cannot say 100% they would be on the same phase.

You will often find more than one phase in one room, typically air conditioning, lighting and 13a sockets will be on different phases.

Sometimes you will see "415v between sockets" (or the like) labels attached where say, light switches are close to heater switches in public areas.

In entertainment, the old "two metre rule" has long fallen by the wayside. I'm looking at a rack of 3phase dimmer packs right now, 415v is perfectly safe and socapex are rated up to 600v, i.e it's perfectly safe to patch off different legs down the same soca into a splitter box. 415v is perfectly safe if treated with respect and understanding. Remember 240v can kill you :omg:

Totally, regarding installation kit it's going to happen, dimmers being the prime example in this market. All my information is going on how I know the school I work at is wired, and talking to electricains and other staff, i know electricains don't do more than one phase in a room. (We're also running large quantities of install kit including projectors, large sound systems and dimmers)

And yes, you cannot be sure regarding the phases and 13a sockets, but a venue with that amount of electricity readily available for the likes of a DJ, is *i think* against some H&S - but i will look it up in the morning

[Thames Valley Discos]

so two ups,s should be ok?

[A1DL]

so two ups,s should be ok?

Yes, Paul

[Paul James Promotions]

you won't find more than one phase in the same room*
* - with exclusion of venues that have larger sound systems and lighting systems (inc theatres/large function rooms) - so basically only in 13a/basic lights on the ceiling type situations

You will find a lot of venues have sockets spread across 3 phases on stage. The venue I was at on Saturday did (and it wasn't labelled up :mad: ), which is why I had to spend 30 mins working out which socket was on each phase, then running sound from brown phase, lighting from black phase, then visuals from grey.

Oh, and it was a banqueting suite, no installation of sound or lighting.

Jamie

[A1DL]

You will find a lot of venues have sockets spread across 3 phases on stage. The venue I was at on Saturday did (and it wasn't labelled up :mad: ), which is why I had to spend 30 mins working out which socket was on each phase, then running sound from brown phase, lighting from black phase, then visuals from grey.

Oh, and it was a banqueting suite, no installation of sound or lighting.

Jamie

No TPNE 32 or 63 either by the sound of things, Jamie :sad:
Makes it even worse when the provision is actually there :omg: