Looking at other DJs and discos from a guests point of view....

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

The last 2 weeks, I have been out with the photo booth and have seen other DJs working. Now I am not going to name names or slate them as none of them were that bad, but none made me think that I'd want to pay big money for them either.

Hardly any microphone use from either, even when there was an empty floor for quite a long time.
Speakers not on stands, so when the first dance was announced, you couldn't hear the DJ.
Both had loads of LED lights, randomly flashing all night, from the first dance until we left.
Aforementioned LED lights were not that powerful and didn't extend much beyond 15-20 feet.
DJs dressed in jeans.
Mixing - both made an effort but did too much and ended up messing a few mixes up.
Both played the most cheesy wedding music imaginable. (I realise this might have been asked for)
Quite horrible sound systems.

So why would people want to pay a premium for guys like this? I suppose they wouldn't, and there's room in the industry for all shapes and sizes so to speak, but does this make it more difficult to those people who are providing a premium service when the premium service is compared initially to these kinds of guys?

I realise people may be offended by this as quite a few of you may have or do operate this way. It is not my intention to offend or upset and I am just giving my thoughts from the perspective of actually being at a wedding and observing other DJs.

I also have to say that one of the guys had people up all night too.

Thoughts?

[Shakermaker Promotions]

I don't see why people would take offence at your post Darren because you are just stating what you've seen with your own eyes. As you said on Sunday, the written word on a forum can be taken a number of different ways but I certainly don't take offence.
With reference to your post, yes there are plenty of DJ's out there doing what you have described and I've seen some myself too. I must admit that when it comes to lighting (as we said the other day), I use some LED fixtures too but they are Revo III's and a bit different to the usual RGB dots. One thing I am a bit guilty of is letting the lights do their sound to light thing. Early on in the evening I will just have the 2 DJ Sparkles on which are just white and they revolve slowly on the dance floor. I'll use these for a first dance at a Wedding too just to keep it simple. After that I turn on the others and let them do their thing but they are all positioned so that they don't conflict with eachother and make a mess. That will change now I have the moving heads (just tested them and they're great little things).

I'm not sure if the average guest at a Disco would notice the things that you've mentioned above but we obviously do.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I'm not sure if the average guest at a Disco would notice the things that you've mentioned above but we obviously do.

That's the point though. Why would a guest pay more than the average price if the examples given were what they perceived every disco to be?

[funkymook]

I'd say what you've described Darren is what they expect from a DJ and is therefore acceptable to them. Hardly anyone ever asks me what my set-up is like before booking me, so if I turned up with no stand and used a table with no cloth etc. I doubt they'd complain, it doesn't appear to be a priority.

Did you manage to get their business names to check what they offer on their websites? Would be interesting to see if it matches the reality.

[Excalibur]

That's the point though. Why would a guest pay more than the average price if the examples given were what they perceived every disco to be?

Because they don't know the average price? Because they don't know what an average disco should provide? Because they don't know what is average? Because it came as part of a package, and they trust the package provider? Because they don't want to antagonise the package provider, in case they become less than helpful?

In short, ignorance. We are blessed with the knowledge of what we should get for our money. Many punters aren't.

[wensleydale]

Why would people pay a premium? As you say, I guess they wouldnt if the service isn't premium in some way, but if anything I would argue it makes it easier to sell a premium service as there is something to compare it against.

I suppose the question is whether the guys you saw were charging a premium price or not.

I know we've all got different views on some aspects of the way we work- I quite happily admit that I don't talk a lot on the mic, and depending on the function I may wear smart jeans, but I'm happy with that and I don't believe it's a bad thing- it's not because of lack of effort or that I don't care though.

Ultimately I guess what I'm trying to say is that there isn't a one size fits all approach- people will always want to pay a variety of prices and in return will probably expect different levels of service/product.

[ianforest]

Thank God the booth gig you did for me was more than two weeks ago! It's not a great advert for PB though if you're going to post on here and slag DJ's off. I do think your post is a bit...well...mostly :Censored::Censored::Censored::Censored::Censored: :Censored::Censored::Censored: to be honest.

DJ not talking much - maybe that's what the client wanted.
Empty dance floor - it happens...not to Darren though clearly.
LED lights - not everyone sees the value in better fixtures.
Lights not extending beyond 20ft - Is that a problem? I was always told lights & sound on the dance floor.
DJ's in Jeans - i'll give you that one.
Mixing...LOL...ok Judge Daz
Cheesy Wedding Music - Clients requests
Horrible sound systems - in what way? Sound is personal.

So there you go.

[JAMdisco]

Thank God the booth gig you did for me was more than two weeks ago! It's not a great advert for PB though if you're going to post on here and slag DJ's off. I do think your post is a bit...well...mostly :Censored::Censored::Censored::Censored::Censored: :Censored::Censored::Censored: to be honest.

I think you'll find that Darren wasn't 'slagging anyone off' but before this gets into a heated debate....

I kind of agree with Darren on this one (and most peoples replies) but every disco I do is geared towards the clients requests, I too have had people ask for me not to 'banter' too much and i do find it hard to keep my hands off the mic. As for clothing, I'm always smartly dressed and always wear a suit for weddings. I think lighting is more for us than the guests, my lighting setup is fairly basic (4 LED PAR56's, 1 ImpossibLED, 1 cluster laser and starcloth) but never had any complaints. I am looking to increase my lighting in the next few months but mainly just for a change as I'm getting bored of my setup.
I rarely beatmix as I've never been at a disco that requires it, but I never have 'dead-air' - that's what the mic is for IMO.

[ianforest]

Not every DJ has the benefit of being a member of a place like this, or other forums.

To be honest, I really couldn't give two hoots if someone doesn't like my speakers, or my lights, or my music choices or whatever. What you have to remember is that due to the nature of our job we don't have the luxury of being able to go out and see how other people do it.

If you see lots of (what you would consider to be) bad stuff then that would compound the fact that what YOU do is correct. If it's all you know, and no-one has complained then how will you know it's wrong? It may not be wrong, it's probably right, but there might be a better way to do it?

Education is everything.

OUR expectations of other DJ's is FAR GREATER than the clients expectations.

[JAMdisco]

The last 2 weeks, I have been out with the photo booth and have seen other DJs working. Now I am not going to name names or slate them as none of them were that bad, but none made me think that I'd want to pay big money for them either.


He was slagging DJ's off!

He moaned about their lack of mic use.
He moaned about their music choices.
He moaned about their LED lights.
He moaned about them wearing jeans (i'll give him that one)
He moaned about their mixing technique.
He moaned about their sound system.

How is that not slagging anyone off? Other than not mentioning their names?

If i'd have booked Daz to do a photo booth...and then saw that...i'd be annoyed.

I'll let Darren defend his statement but look at the quote I've highlighted in Darren's original post... He was simply saying that he wouldn't like to pay big money for what he saw. There is a place for all the different DJ's in our sector - I'm mid priced (some would say cheap) but still give every disco 100% and make sure I adhere to clients requests/expectations.

[DiscoPromotions]

I'll let Darren defend his statement but look at the quote I've highlighted in Darren's original post... He was simply saying that he wouldn't like to pay big money for what he saw. There is a place for all the different DJ's in our sector - I'm mid priced (some would say cheap) but still give every disco 100% and make sure I adhere to clients requests/expectations.

Is this not why the good DJs lose the bookings to cowboys.. Potential customers 9 times out 10 do not know the difference between Mobile Disco A and Mobile Disco B. It is the sale pitch at the end of the day and to whom the customer believes/trusts that will deliver the service they want.

There is one provider I know that promises everthing, but delivers the mininum.. However this provider has got the gift of the gab and could sell ice to eskimos..

One the flip side to this, if the customers could see actually what they are going to get before, I predict most of them would choose another service provider.

[JAMdisco]

Is this not why the good DJs lose the bookings to cowboys.. Potential customers 9 times out 10 do not know the difference between Mobile Disco A and Mobile Disco B. It is the sale pitch at the end of the day and which customer believes/trusts that will deliver the service they want. If the customers could see actually what they are going to get before, I predict most of them would choose another service provider.

You may be surprised at what/how some people advertise.

I was recently looking at a disco-services website (I won't mention any names) but there were pictures/examples of the 'gold' setup and while some were fantastic, there were some that were awful, cables all over the place, shabby lighting, tatty equipment and (presumably) not the best sound quality looking at the speakers and speaker positioning.

I remember a post from Darren a long while ago about 'everything matters' and that has stuck in my head and I still follow that advice now.

[Javlingames]

To the untrained eye a disco is just a disco and to the general public the quality of it is measured by how many people are on the floor and how suitable the music is. Just by playing someones request can make you the best dj in the eyes of the person who made the request!

On a saturday night at 11pm the most important thing at a party is the music, equipment and presentation is a long way down the line at that particular moment.

[DiscoPromotions]

You may be surprised at what/how some people advertise.

I was recently looking at a disco-services website (I won't mention any names) but there were pictures/examples of the 'gold' setup and while some were fantastic, there were some that were awful, cables all over the place, shabby lighting, tatty equipment and (presumably) not the best sound quality looking at the speakers and speaker positioning.

I remember a post from Darren a long while ago about 'everything matters' and that has stuck in my head and I still follow that advice now.

It is always to late for the customer by then, as the DJ is there, setup, and ready to go...

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Thank God the booth gig you did for me was more than two weeks ago! It's not a great advert for PB though if you're going to post on here and slag DJ's off.

Firstly, I didn't do a booth gig for you. You passed me their details. Secondly, I am not slagging DJs off. It was merely my thoughts about why and how people would pay for a premium service based on what I saw.


I think you'll find that Darren wasn't 'slagging anyone off'

Correct.


I'll let Darren defend his statement but look at the quote I've highlighted in Darren's original post... He was simply saying that he wouldn't like to pay big money for what he saw. There is a place for all the different DJ's in our sector

Correct and correct.

I am merely saying that sometimes it is difficult to sell or justify a premium service if a client has seen something budget or mid price.

[funkymook]

It's an interesting question - and one that shouldn't be denigrated to blame the 'cowboys and Sids' - that isn't what Darren was talking about.

A premium service depends on what the client considers a priority and what they're prepared to pay for.

I'd expect a lot of DJ's would consider one of my recent set-ups so minimal as to be not worthy of being called a disco - one mirror ball and everything else hidden behind a screen, tops sitting on bins so nothing visible over the top, apart from me (just!). Minimal mic work, and a selection of music not usually heard at most weddings.

So another DJ wandering in early on before the dancing started would probably think I couldn't be bothered putting lights up, didn't own speaker stands, couldn't speak and had no idea about the charts and the usual party hits and was playing 'weird music' to suit myself. Now all that may well be true, but it's also exactly what the client wanted for their wedding day, it took meetings, venue visits and playlist consultations to end up with hardly any show at all and 'strange music - and for that they were happy to pay a premium price and give me excellent feedback.

So find out what your prospective clients priorities are, make sure you can deliver in what they tell you is important (make it your priority as well, and let them know this) and they will happily pay you more than someone who doesn't understand what they really want.

[Vectis]

So another DJ wandering in early on before the dancing started would probably think I couldn't be bothered putting lights up, didn't own speaker stands, couldn't speak and had no idea about the charts and the usual party hits and was playing 'weird music' to suit myself. Now all that may well be true, but it's also exactly what the client wanted for their wedding day, it took meetings, venue visits and playlist consultations to end up with hardly any show at all and 'strange music - and for that they were happy to pay a premium price and give me excellent feedback.

So find out what your prospective clients priorities are, make sure you can deliver in what they tell you is important (make it your priority as well, and let them know this) and they will happily pay you more than someone who doesn't understand what they really want.

That last sentence is probably the single best and most sensible one liner I've ever read in a pricing/service related thread, ever :thumbsup:

[ianforest]

Firstly, I didn't do a booth gig for you. You passed me their details. Secondly, I am not slagging DJs off. It was merely my thoughts about why and how people would pay for a premium service based on what I saw.
Ok, correct you didn't go a booth gig for me...

And yes you are slagging DJ's off. Do I need to repeat myself...?

You said you've seen some other DJ's recently...

You slagged off their sound systems.
You slagged off their mic technique.
You slagged off their lighting...

Shall I go on?

How do you know they were asking "big money" ? Did you ask them? Did you ask the client how much they paid? Did you ask the client if they were happy with the service they got from the DJ?

If not...then how can you make an assumption?

If the client got exactly what they wanted and were happy to pay what they paid then what does it matter?

[Corabar Entertainment]

I really think you've missed the point of this thread, Ian.

[DJ Jules]

That last sentence is probably the single best and most sensible one liner I've ever read in a pricing/service related thread, ever :thumbsup:

:agree:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I really think you've missed the point of this thread, Ian.

Yep, I do too.

I didn't slag off anything.

I think Ian needs to read my first post very carefully where it says I am not slating them, just pointing out reasons why these guys wouldn't be worth a premium price (IMO)

[ianforest]

think Ian needs to read my first post very carefully where it says I am not slating them, just pointing out reasons why these guys wouldn't be worth a premium price (IMO)
Ok so because you said you're not doing it...and then do it anyway, that makes it alright?

That's like me saying "i'm not going to kill you" and then I stab you in the chest. Ok it's a bit extreme and not a great analogy but...ahh well, i'll draw the line there, agree to disagree.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Ok so because you said you're not doing it...and then do it anyway, that makes it alright?

That's like me saying "i'm not going to kill you" and then I stab you in the chest. Ok it's a bit extreme and not a great analogy but...ahh well, i'll draw the line there, agree to disagree.

Nothing to agree to disagree with. I know I am not slating the DJs. I am stating reasons why I don't think they would get a premium price for what they provided in my opinion.

I repeat, it is my opinion why they wouldn't be worth the premium price and why others may find it difficult to achieve a premium price if that's what the general public are basing their pricing on.

[DJ Jules]

I repeat, it is my opinion why they wouldn't be worth the premium price and why others may find it difficult to achieve a premium price if that's what the general public are basing their pricing on.

This is really relevant to my business (as someone who currently struggles to get a premium price - but has worked for "higher fees" a number of times with only compliments and positive feedback).

Which parts of my services the public attach a value to (and will subsequently pay a premium to get) is really important for me to be able to decide what to focus my (limited) time and resources on improving (advertising, website, mic skills, light show, customer service, sound, etc???) Obviously I'm thinking about both what attracts premium clients during the sales process prior to the event and what makes people who come to my gigs think "I want him to DJ at my wedding [kids party/birthday/christening] and I'll pay loadsamoney to get him". :D

Julian

[paulg]

Nothing to agree to disagree with. I know I am not slating the DJs. I am stating reasons why I don't think they would get a premium price for what they provided in my opinion.

I repeat, it is my opinion why they wouldn't be worth the premium price and why others may find it difficult to achieve a premium price if that's what the general public are basing their pricing on.

Well said and yes it does make things more difficult. I've been able to go to a few weddings lately as a guest not a DJ and even in what I'd call good quality venues the standard of DJ / Disco was below what I expected from that sort of establishment. When the venue offers polite well dressed staff, beautifully presented rooms, excellent food in restaurant surroundings etc, rightly or wrongly, I expect the theme to continue into the night time celebrations.

I watched and listened to exactly the sort of DJ's mentioned in this thread. Dotty flashing lights during the first dance? Not my cup of tea. Laptops with not even a soundcard to enhance the compressed mp3 signal? breaks in the music, mixing from Nicki Minaj to Swing the Mood and then to Metallica? Just setting aside how some of us might relate to some of the comparisons that have been made (lots of us have dotty lights), this shouldn't be the default impression people get of a DJ but if customers and venues are content with this standard at whatever it costs, then premium operators will find it harder to compete.

Oddly enough, on Tuesday I did a 21st Birthday in a big venue. The birthday girl's dad looked at the stage and the room and said how nice it looked but then said I suppose you must have had to limit things to work to our budget. We were talking here about £4000PA. £1700, Lighting, £1000 deckstand and truss, £1000+ playout, £1200 microphones, goodness knows how many £1000's in media and ancilliary kit and yet, it didn't seem to matter. It was, to all intents and purposes, just a disco/karaoke worth whatever the client though was the going local rate.

So, in my opinion it's fair to say that the disco's in the OP will never make premium money and in time, nor will anyone else.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Well said and yes it does make things more difficult. I've been able to go to a few weddings lately as a guest not a DJ and even in what I'd call good quality venues the standard of DJ / Disco was below what I expected from that sort of establishment. When the venue offers polite well dressed staff, beautifully presented rooms, excellent food in restaurant surroundings etc, rightly or wrongly, I expect the theme to continue into the night time celebrations.

I watched and listened to exactly the sort of DJ's mentioned in this thread. Dotty flashing lights during the first dance? Not my cup of tea. Laptops with not even a soundcard to enhance the compressed mp3 signal? breaks in the music, mixing from Nicki Minaj to Swing the Mood and then to Metallica? Just setting aside how some of us might relate to some of the comparisons that have been made (lots of us have dotty lights), this shouldn't be the default impression people get of a DJ but if customers and venues are content with this standard at whatever it costs, then premium operators will find it harder to compete.

Oddly enough, on Tuesday I did a 21st Birthday in a big venue. The birthday girl's dad looked at the stage and the room and said how nice it looked but then said I suppose you must have had to limit things to work to our budget. We were talking here about £4000PA. £1700, Lighting, £1000 deckstand and truss, £1000+ playout, £1200 microphones, goodness knows how many £1000's in media and ancilliary kit and yet, it didn't seem to matter. It was, to all intents and purposes, just a disco/karaoke worth whatever the client though was the going local rate.

So, in my opinion it's fair to say that the disco's in the OP will never make premium money and in time, nor will anyone else.

Ah, someone who understands what I am getting at. :)

[funkymook]

Oddly enough, on Tuesday I did a 21st Birthday in a big venue. The birthday girl's dad looked at the stage and the room and said how nice it looked but then said I suppose you must have had to limit things to work to our budget. We were talking here about £4000PA. £1700, Lighting, £1000 deckstand and truss, £1000+ playout, £1200 microphones, goodness knows how many £1000's in media and ancilliary kit and yet, it didn't seem to matter. It was, to all intents and purposes, just a disco/karaoke worth whatever the client though was the going local rate.

So, in my opinion it's fair to say that the disco's in the OP will never make premium money and in time, nor will anyone else.

What was the budget for context?

I think there's more damage from premium DJ's going out at cheap rates and making next to no profit than a few chancers who up their prices but can't deliver.

[Shaun]

:agree:

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Ian, I have to agree with Darren, I don't see any slagging off going on. This is a perfect example of the written word on a computer screen being taken the wrong way. It's easily done. I used to be a great one for looking at something and seeing it in a negative or the wrong way. The reader sometimes sees something differently to the way it was intended.
The reason I mention this is because when I met Darren and Martin on Sunday, Darren mentioned the exact same comments that are in this thread. I didn't see it as Darren slagging off the other DJ's he had seen and we were talking face to face. There was humour in it not anger or sarcasm etc.

Another thing that was mentioned was the actual presentation etc... There are a number of DJ's out there that go out with loads of lighting effects and also a number that go out with a couple because they can do the same job. A customer could look at the supplier with a couple of effects and think that they are the budget DJ and the one with lots of lights etc is the premium. I think sometimes that some DJ's hide behind an 'all bells and whistles' set up because it may hide the fact that they aren't great at the end of the day...
It's a really tough question at the end of the day and I don't have an answer to it really. I think Martin summed it up when he said that you need to speak to the customer to find out what their priorities are.

[Corabar Entertainment]

I think Martin summed it up when he said that you need to speak to the customer to find out what their priorities are.Whilst I agree, therein lies the rub, too, because you've got to get to the point where you can talk to the client.