RCF 715 v RCF 425

[DJColsie]

Hi

It is time to upgrade the quality of my tops.

I presently use Wharedale Pro Titans 15a. They have been really good and I would recommend them to anyone.

I do 3 - 7 gigs a month, mostly without subs, although I have Mackie 1800SRMs which I use when subs are required.

My motivation for improving is to gain a better quality and more detailed sound, especially in the mids and highs, while still being able to use the tops on their own most of the time.

I have narrowed the choice down to the above to choices. The 425 having better mids and highs with the 2 inch tweeter but only 400 rms (although similar to what has served me well for the last 4 years). Or the 715 with 700 watts rms and 200 watts going through a 1 inch tweeter.

Does anyone have experience of these two speakers or thoughts on the situation. Secondly, have i missed any obvious obvious alternatives.

I am reluctant to go down to 12 inch speakers as I feel they would not perform as well on their own. Although I have the subwoofers, if I use them I have to borrow or hire a van. Without them everything fits happily in my Mondeo.

Your thoughts please gentlemen.

[Sapphire Disco]

My thoughts the 12" RCF would sound better than the Wharfedale 15" anyway but when I replace my speakers I'm going for a pair of these http://www.disco-world.co.uk/speakers/ld-systems-maui28-active-system/prod_2158.html

[DJColsie]

My thoughts the 12" RCF would sound better than the Wharfedale 15" anyway but when I replace my speakers I'm going for a pair of these http://www.disco-world.co.uk/speakers/ld-systems-maui28-active-system/prod_2158.html

Thanks and they look really good.

However altogether they weigh over 75kg and I don't think 115dB SPL would be loud enough. Would look good at small weddings though!

[DJColsie]

Thank you, they look fab.

Think I will stick to a traditional speaker for weight and SPL reasons.

[DJ Jules]

I've got a pair of 422a's and I've worked with a guy who has a pair of 712's. Personally, to the ear, I wouldn't have said there's a massive audible difference in volume between the 422's and the 712's. In terms of the sound (both in terms of the reach and the sheer depth of the highs and mids) there is a huge difference.

Unfortunately I can't comment on the 15" versions of the above because I've never heard them in action, but if you plan to use them with a pair of good quality subs, then personally I would buy the 12" versions anyway as I have happily used my 422a's in a variety of different venues and they do pack a fair punch on their own and the convenience you get from their compact size and weight is well worth it.

If you have to have the power of the 700 series and money is driving the decision to go for the 715 instead of the 725, then I would recommend saving up for the 2" tweeter as otherwise you'll be kicking yourself within 6 months. Go listen to the two side by side and you'll see exactly what I mean.

Julian

[DJColsie]

Thanks that is really useful.

Do you ever use the 422a's on their own, without subs?

The idea of the smaller cabinet and lower weight is very appealing.

Look forward to your reply.

[ukpartydj]

I have no experience with these so this is just an opinion but I've always assumed the 715's were really more for the larger applications / when you want to make your audience deaf (like many bands seem to enjoy).
That being said the SPL is only one Db more than my small 315's - so hi fidelity may be the case!

[DJ Jules]

Do you ever use the 422a's on their own, without subs.

I don't actually own any subs any more :D

Julian

[Shaun]

I use 715's. They're lightweight (compared to my previous speakers anyway), and sound great without additional subs.

[DJColsie]

Is there much difference between the 422,s and the 425's.

[DJColsie]

Thanks Shaun.

I think it is a question of the extra power of the 715's over the extra detail and reach of the 422 or 425. Wish I could afford 722 or 725 but can't 😪

[Shaun]

I have a pair of 525's too. I prefer the look of the 715's though.

[DJColsie]

A friend reckons the Yamaha 15dxr are better than the RCF's. anyone got experience of these?

[paulg]

I looked at a pair of Yamaha DXR15's and a pair of Yamaha DSR115's just this week.

Yes, in my opinion they are better than the RCF's in many respects. Certainly they push out a lot more sound. Honestly, they are one of the loudest cabs I've ever heard in the price range. Astonishing output. The DSR 115's actually made my ears hurt from a distance of about 4 metres such is the top end output. In fact, they are a bit harsh but so are RCF's. They are most certainly crystal clear throughout their range though. The DXR's are a little less capable but still very good.

The bottom end though is what you would expect from a full range speaker i.e. they struggle to replicate lower bass at higher volumes and probably need to be paired with a 15/18inch sub if you want managed bottom end. Using a 192Kb bit rate track in the shop probably didn't help show them to show their best. But if you want a speaker to use without a sub, you should really take a listen because on the whole, the Yammy's are not a bad cab at all

On the down side, they look like a 200 quid speaker, the feel of the DXR's is very poor and looking through the ports on the front, some of the wiring looked a bit untidy. They are made in Indonesia.

[Excalibur]

A friend reckons the Yamaha 15dxr are better than the RCF's. anyone got experience of these?

Only at Coalville. I loved 'em. In my very humble opinion, they were the prettiest and nicest sounding ones there. The EV's of Shaun ( Flatliners ) are very nice, but really need subs. Now don't ask me why this is, because I don't know, but when they're paired with RCF subs, they sound awesome. That's surprising, because I don't usually like the sound of RCF subs. :daft:

[DJColsie]

So the Yammies are definitely candidates for padded carry bags then!

[Twinspin]

The Yamaha DXRs are really nice cabs. Another cab id have a listen to as well is the QSC K12 they are very good as well.

[DJColsie]

Thanks. A lot of people have recommended them but really had a budget of £1500 including travel bags. Don't know if that is possible.

[paulg]

Don't confuse yamaha DXR with the DSR. The DSR (115/215) are very different to the DXR's. As our local pa shop said, "ah, you want hear the DSR - the grown ups cab". You can get a pair as cheap as £1595 so not far over budget.

[DJColsie]

I was looking at the DXR as I discounted the DSR as too heavy.

[paulg]

I was looking at the DXR as I discounted the DSR as too heavy.

Admittedly, 28kg is quite heavy but with handles on either side it's not such bad lift. That's the price you pay with some of the bigger powered speakers. I lifted them a couple of times and it seemed OK. You can always use your speaker stands to offset some of the lift by laying the speaker on its side and pushing the pole in the hole (as you lift you can transfer some weight via the speaker stands feet)

[sweetie]

Had you considered the RCF D-line range; I replaced a pair of QSC K12s with the HD12a and although they are a tad bigger they go a lot louder as the qsc struggled in some of the bigger venues. I pair them with one or two rcf 905 subs.

[paulg]

Admittedly, 28kg is quite heavy but with handles on either side it's not such bad lift. That's the price you pay with some of the bigger powered speakers. I lifted them a couple of times and it seemed OK. You can always use your speaker stands to offset some of the lift by laying the speaker on its side and pushing the pole in the hole (as you lift you can transfer some weight via the speaker stands feet)

I have a pair of the DSR 115's now. Oddly, 28kg does not seem such a bad lift because the handles are well placed. Don't discount them because of weight because when you test them out in a normal environment instead of a shop where all the other display speakers tend to absorb sound, at under £1600 a pair they might be the best purchase you'll make for a while!

[Woodyo]

I have a Pair of 725A's never need to use subs now , very pleased with them.

[Excalibur]

Thanks. A lot of people have recommended them but really had a budget of £1500 including travel bags. Don't know if that is possible.
Don't know how far it is from Portsmouth to Buckinghamshire, but there's a pair of K12s in the for sale section under that figure.

[djdj]

A friend reckons the Yamaha 15dxr are better than the RCF's. anyone got experience of these?

:D http://www.forum.mobilediscodirectory.co.uk/showthread.php?40390-Yamaha-DSR12-DXR15-Active-Cabs

[DJColsie]

The plot thickens due to internet misquotes and suddenly the Yamaha's may not be so heavy!!

All retailer websites seem to quote the weight of the RCF ART 425A mk11 as 18.4KG. Which is very light. However, looking at RCF's own website, which you would hope to be accurate, the weight is 26KG, rather heavy!!

So I phoned RCF directly to clarify. Apparently up to a year ago the magnets were neo and the product weighed 18.4KG. The price of making the magnets out of neo shot up to the point where it was prohibative and they switched to using ferrite to keep the price of the speaker the same. They called the ferrite speakers mk11 and they weigh 26KG. All the retailer websites I have looked at quote they are selling mk11 versions with neo magnets and 18.4KG of weight which is not true.

Therefore thinking the Yamaha's DXR with 22KG and 133SPL are the better option. They were made from ferrite all along. Therir more expensive and heavier DSR's use neo!

Warning seems to be, DO NOT TRUST RETAILERS WEBSITES, which do not seem to get updated!!

[DJColsie]

Had you considered the RCF D-line range; I replaced a pair of QSC K12s with the HD12a and although they are a tad bigger they go a lot louder as the qsc struggled in some of the bigger venues. I pair them with one or two rcf 905 subs.

Just read some really good reviews of the RCF HD12A. Seem really good and maybe just what I am looking for.

Where do they sit in the RCF range compared with the 4 and 7 series. From the spec sheets the bass rolls off later than either the 4 or 7's so I presume they sound fuller? Are they RCF's DXR12 equivalent?

Anyone got any thoughts or experience?

Cheers folks

[paulg]

Mackie have also released a new version of their SRM series which might interest you!! Looking at US prices, probably retailing at around £500 quid each.

http://www.mackie.com/products/srm-series-loudspeakers/

[sweetie]

Just read some really good reviews of the RCF HD12A. Seem really good and maybe just what I am looking for.

Where do they sit in the RCF range compared with the 4 and 7 series. From the spec sheets the bass rolls off later than either the 4 or 7's so I presume they sound fuller? Are they RCF's DXR12 equivalent?

Anyone got any thoughts or experience?

Cheers folks

they are my first RCF tops and I replaced the QSC k12s with them. They certainly go louder and sound better when played loud and never seen the limit light yet so they have great headroom.

[DJColsie]

they are my first RCF tops and I replaced the QSC k12s with them. They certainly go louder and sound better when played loud and never seen the limit light yet so they have great headroom.

Good stuff, sounds positive.

[DJColsie]

Well I have bitten the bullet, new RCF HD12AS on order, delivery Monday!

[DJColsie]

Well I have bitten the bullet, new RCF HD12AS on order, delivery Monday!

Delivered today, 1st gig Saturday upstairs in a Drama school! No dramas I hope!

[paulg]

Delivered today, 1st gig Saturday upstairs in a Drama school! No dramas I hope!

They look more than capable. Originally, you wanted to go for 15" tops - what changed your mind?

[DJColsie]

The fact that they had better bass response than most 15inches (-3db down to 45 hertz), a higher SPL, and where smaller and lighter!

Added to the better mid and high sound quality I was looking for and it just seemed win win all round.

[paulg]

The fact that they had better bass response than most 15inches (-3db down to 45 hertz), a higher SPL, and where smaller and lighter!

Added to the better mid and high sound quality I was looking for and it just seemed win win all round.

The same bass response is quoted by RCF for older 722a's as well. I never understood their logic in this respect. They will be sweet sounding sperakers. Will you post a review?

[DJColsie]

The same bass response is quoted by RCF for older 722a's as well. I never understood their logic in this respect. They will be sweet sounding sperakers. Will you post a review?

Yep will do. I looked at the 722 but they were just a bit too expensive for me. Plus, I liked the full grill on the HD12a plus the bass response didn't roll off quite as quickly as the 722's (according to RCFs own graph on their website).

On my trial they went as loud as DXR15s (which were on the limiter) without limiting themselves. Plus they just sounded more detailed, which is what I was looking for.

[DJColsie]

Yep will do. I looked at the 722 but they were just a bit too expensive for me. Plus, I liked the full grill on the HD12a plus the bass response didn't roll off quite as quickly as the 722's (according to RCFs own graph on their website).

On my trial they went as loud as DXR15s (which were on the limiter) without limiting themselves. Plus they just sounded more detailed, which is what I was looking for.

OK, first gig done and a bit of a strange one!

Was an 18th at a drama school where the venue was upstairs. I was informed by the venue manager that the clients were "stage lovvies" (drama school pupils) and wanted to dance on stage as well as in the auditorium, so I was to set up at the back of the stage! This still left about 8/10 metres to dance on without falling off the stage!

Pleasant change, I could carry one speaker in each hand upstairs so only one run, bonus over the Whafedales that were definately a one at a time carry. Similarly, getting the speakers on stands was a sinch.

Other feedback - the sound is much more detailed with a very even coverage of the spectrum and goes very very loud without distorting. It is not as warm as the 15" dales as would be expected. I EQd the bass up a smidgen (without the boost on) and the trebble down a smidgen and they sound fab. Really pleased. Vocals are outstanding IMO and there is definition and detail in the treble, not just " tizz tizz tizz". The sound carries much further than the Dales, especially the mids and highs, which sounded crystal clear right to the back of the auditorium, so the throw is fantastic. The bass does fall away at distance but that is no bad thing and would be corrected with subs.

Overall, great sound in a professional looking speaker that is easy to carry and set up!

[DJColsie]

Just added 2 RCF 902as. Wow, thinking I only needed one!

[mobilediscowirral]

My thoughts the 12" RCF would sound better than the Wharfedale 15" anyway but when I replace my speakers I'm going for a pair of these http://www.disco-world.co.uk/speakers/ld-systems-maui28-active-system/prod_2158.html

I was lucky to get the rcf 712a mk1 which are lighter and jesus there loud ! clip light just blink now n then which at that point is very loud n clear!

wonder if the 715 are louder and give more bass off???


Don't confuse yamaha DXR with the DSR. The DSR (115/215) are very different to the DXR's. As our local pa shop said, "ah, you want hear the DSR - the grown ups cab". You can get a pair as cheap as £1595 so not far over budget.

ebay last week had a pair for £1200 Used, might be still on there

[paulg]

At a volume level where a 12" speaker starts to become a bit shrill, an equivalent 15" will still tend to deliver bass. Overall, the effect is of more bass across the speaker's range but not necessarily louder. However, you tend to lose some detail with the 15" equivalent. Not really important for disco but a vocalist might feel the difference. Personally, I think the Yamaha DSR range knocks the spots off RCF (which I used to own) because the detail seems to always be present.

[mobilediscowirral]

Be nice to have a pair of the DSR112 am sure these would be most active speaker

[DJColsie]

At a volume level where a 12" speaker starts to become a bit shrill, an equivalent 15" will still tend to deliver bass. Overall, the effect is of more bass across the speaker's range but not necessarily louder. However, you tend to lose some detail with the 15" equivalent. Not really important for disco but a vocalist might feel the difference. Personally, I think the Yamaha DSR range knocks the spots off RCF (which I used to own) because the detail seems to always be present.

I was looking for something lighter and smaller so my choice is fantastic for me. I discounted the DSR range on weight alone. I considered the DXRs but again they were too heavy.