Denon HD2500 / New Controller? I need some help / advice....please!

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Hi all,

I'll try my hardest not to be too long winded about this but you know me, I like to try and give as much information as possible.
My controller set up for the past few years has been as follows :
Denon HD2500 with 2 x External HD's with Denon X500 Mixer as main system
Laptop with VDJ and Numark DJ2Go Controller as back up (but also as a reference base too).

Now, I love the Denon HD2500, always have. Over the years I have had niggly little issues with external HD's that have needed replacing but overall it has been faultless.
I like how I can use the external keyboard to search for tracks and have them there and ready to play instantly.

Tonight I was doing a wedding and using the Denon HD2500. I usually have USB1 selected for one HD on the left side and USB2 selected for the other HD on the right side.
USB1 was playing fine, no problems. USB2 seemed to be having problems or maybe the right side of the unit was? (I'll try and explain).
On the left side of the unit (USB1) I had a track playing. I had cued up Shannon - Let The Music Play (how ironic!) on the right side (USB2) and once the track started playing, it just skipped about. Luckily I had tracks cued up on the laptop as back up so apart from the usual "D'oh!" from the dance floor, everything seemed ok.
I was pressing buttons on the right side (USB2) and they weren't doing anything. It was as if the right side had frozen? When I pressed the Source button to try and select USB1 so that both sides were reading off USB1, it didn't do anything either. The left side seemed to be fine and I could still search and do what I do normally. I selected Shannon - Let The Music Play again and it was absolutely fine but the right side was still not doing anything.

I switched to using Laptop and VDJ and turned off the Denon HD2500 and then turned it back on. This time I selected USB1 for both sides.
I was searching for tracks on the right side and it seemed to be ok but because I didn't want the potential embarassment again of a track stopping, I went through the rest of the night just using the left side and laptop and VDJ.

What I didn't do was select USB2 on the left side of the Denon HD2500 to see if it was the external HD. You know you kind of get flustered and when you find a workaround you go with that and worry about the problems afterwards, hence this thread. Obviously I will try that out at home.
My first thought was that it could be the unit. It's not been serviced. It's in a flightcase and heavy so I use a little trolly for it and I'm guessing that sometimes little knocks don't do it any favours (going down steps etc).

I have yet to do any testing and my next gig isn't until Friday as I am just providing lighting for an event later today so I will go through it in detail to try and find the cause and hopefully a solution.

This now leaves me with a bit of a dilemma. I guess that maybe I am a bit behind the times because I am still using the Denon HD2500 but like I said, I love the unit and don't want to part with it. I am all up for change but I am concerned about (a) Learning to use a new system and (b) Wondering what system to go for.

I've looked at the Denon MC6000 MKII and Denon HC5000 online this morning and although I like the look of them, they seem a bit complicated to me.
Has anyone moved from the Denon HD2500 to either of the above and found the transition easy?
Is anyone still using the Denon HD2500? Has anyone got one that they don't use that they want to sell?

As I said, I have a Laptop and VDJ as back up already. If I get either of the above units, am I going to need to get another laptop so that I can keep my backup system?
Will the Denon X500 mixer become a spare because the above are mixer controllers?

Apologies for all of the questions. I hope someone can help or advise. I know the time may have come where I will need to move to a new set up but I'm a bit wary as I am sure others were when they moved over?
Ideally I'd like to keep using the HD2500 if it is working properly.
Does anyone know or can recommend someone who can look at it and service it if I can't find the problem?

Phew!
Thanks in advance!

[Excalibur]

Déja vu anyone? (http://www.forum.mobilediscodirectory.co.uk/showthread.php?41041-Replacement-for-Denon-HD2500&highlight=hd+2500+mkii)

Gary, why don't you wait for the 2500 Mk2? It was due in a few months nearly a year ago. Oh wait, if that were true, it would be here, wouldn't it? :whistle:

Right, I'll try to be serious. Gary, I too run a laptop with DJ2GO as backup. ( And I have to say that since the arrival of the VMS, it's getting used less and less at every gig. ) I used to run two of them when I had an X-500.What a clutter, two controllers, two external soundcards, ages to set up.

Now I know the VMS will do this, and I'm sure the 6000 Mk1 and Mk2 both will, but one possibility is to have the 2500 with hard drive running into two hardware channels ( effectively what you're doing with the X-500. ) and the laptop into the midi channels. You'd need a small case for the 2500, but I'm sure that's possible.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Thanks for that mate. I'm a bit confused by what you've said but then again, I've had no sleep at the moment.
I will do some testing on Sunday if I can and see what I come up with.

[Pe7e]

I had a HD2500 a while back, and similar to yourself, experienced external HD problems, it turned out that the powered USB hub was the source of the problem, it was replaced with a good quality 'branded' unit and the problem was resolved

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I used VDJ, then went to the HD2500 as it was being a little unreliable and then moved back to VDJ and the MC6000 Mark1 when it came out and to be honest, it was the best move I made. The MC6000 is so much more flexible than a traditional mixer/controller combo for me and a hell of a lot lighter.

I now have a case with the MC6000 running 1 x laptop with VDJ8 and a netbook with USB soundcard with VDJ7 and Daslight for DMX. The advantage of the MC6000 is that it is a software controller and a hardware controller too, so you can use it with CD players or another laptop etc as you have 4 channels. If your software goes down, straight onto your other source, be it laptop, iPad or whatever. I also have a radio mic built in as well as XLRs and power, so it's a breeze to set up.

I had a few little problems when I bought it, setting channels up and suffer with the occasional sticky button, but all in all it has been an excellent choice.

It may look complicated but it isn't really. You can use as much or as little as you want. I mix a little so use the loop and cue points quite a lot. I also use both mic channels which both have eq on them and find the booth output very good too for putting speakers in other rooms and being able to control the volume and eq too.

I haven't used the Mark 2, but I think it has different sound cards and the mic output has been improved. The Mark 1 had a problem with the gains being too loud, but I got round this by using a -10db attenuator switch on the mic.

If you want to have a look at mine, you're quite welcome to and I can show how to use it.

[Excalibur]

I had a HD2500 a while back, and similar to yourself, experienced external HD problems, it turned out that the powered USB hub was the source of the problem, it was replaced with a good quality 'branded' unit and the problem was resolved
How many times has it been posted on here that Denon recommend Belkin? I wouldn't consider using anything else with any make of Hard Drive Controller.


Thanks for that mate. I'm a bit confused by what you've said but then again, I've had no sleep at the moment.
I will do some testing on Sunday if I can and see what I come up with.

I think Darren's pretty much explained it in principle. I think most of the four channel units will operate in a very very similar manner. It's no secret that I prefer the VMS, but I haven't tried the Mk2 Denon, which is supposed to include many upgrades.

[Shaun]

Hi Gary, like you I still use the HD2500, and I'm reluctant to change anytime soon as I don't want to go down the laptop route. One of my HD2500's recently developed a fault, and Clive from CRS1 (http://entertainmenthouse.co.uk/) fixed it. It may be worth givin him a call. You may have to wait quite a few weeks for it's return though, I know mines took a little while (which wasn't a problem as I have several of the units), but if you need it for your main playout it may be worthwhile checking exactly how long it will take him. He did a great job with the repair of mines though.

[Creature]

or alternatively get rid of your harddrives and use mem sticks :)

one less part with moving parts got rid of and one less thing toplug into the mains :)

[yourdj]

or alternatively get rid of your harddrives and use mem sticks :)

one less part with moving parts got rid of and one less thing toplug into the mains :)

Can it accept solid state that would be good?
I had a Denon and quickly sold it when It had HDD failure one night. Sod that, much rather use my mac.
6-7 year faultless history after that.:)

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Thanks for the comments guys.
Darren, I may take you up on that offer if I can't find the fault. It's been a long and tiring weekend and I haven't looked in to it yet but will do later.
For the record though, I do use a powered Belkin USB hub.
The external HD's are USB1 - Western Digital 2TB and USB2 - Seagate 2TB (both are powered too).

I haven't used the internal HD on the Denon for years as it came up with a 'Can't Access' message ages ago and I've not got round to removing it.

I'll let you know how I get on.
Thanks again.

[Creature]

Can it accept solid state that would be good?
I had a Denon and quickly sold it when It had HDD failure one night. Sod that, much rather use my mac.
6-7 year faultless history after that.:)

I would presume so - I have the cortex and they do :) you must have a small usb stick laying around you could try :)

[Shakermaker Promotions]

It's a strange one.
I've only done about 30 minutes of testing but I put myself in the same situation I was in on Friday with the exact same set up and songs.
(Obviously I will do more thorough testing tomorrow).

I set up USB1 on the left and USB2 on the right again and selected Shannon - Let The Music Play.
The right side seemed to freeze half way through the song just like the other night. Pressing the buttons did nothing.
Same song on the other side and all was well.

Turned off the whole unit and this time selected USB2 for the left and USB1 for the right.
This time I played Shannon off USB2 on the left side and it played all the way through with no problems.

Played a couple of tracks off the right side again and it seemed fine.

I have a feeling that the unit needs a service?

[deltic]

It's a strange one.
I've only done about 30 minutes of testing but I put myself in the same situation I was in on Friday with the exact same set up and songs.
(Obviously I will do more thorough testing tomorrow).

I set up USB1 on the left and USB2 on the right again and selected Shannon - Let The Music Play.
The right side seemed to freeze half way through the song just like the other night. Pressing the buttons did nothing.
Same song on the other side and all was well.

Turned off the whole unit and this time selected USB2 for the left and USB1 for the right.
This time I played Shannon off USB2 on the left side and it played all the way through with no problems.

Played a couple of tracks off the right side again and it seemed fine.

I have a feeling that the unit needs a service?

Not really a lot to service, you may want to look at whether the firmware is up to date or perhaps just reinstall the latest version again.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Thanks for the tip. That doesn't seem to be that easy a task as I have no ideas as to where to find them.
Just did a YouTube search and contacted a guy on there who seems to have the latest firmware that was released so will have to wait to see if he replies unless anyone else knows.

For additional information though (and don't all laugh at once), I don't recall EVER updating the firmware since I purchased the unit.

OOPS!

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Think I may have found it now.

[Tonsk]

Last night the same thing happened to me with one of my HD2500's.

Twice.

First time it did that stuttering thing... Luckily I have two HD2500s, plus laptop with OTS DJ along with an SD Card reader on my backup mixer which is always plugged in ready to go in the flightcase. So swapped over to OTS and played a song off that while I powered down the HD2500 and switched it back on.

I only have one external harddrive plugged in and pull off that from both sides, using a belkin powered hub, latest firmware.

Reselected the external drive as had plugged in the backup HD, looped a track and started playing and it froze again - this time repeating 30 seconds of the track.

Back to OTS and powered down for about 15 minutes.

Worked fine - so I don't know if it was just over heating...

On an interesting note - two of my EVL Spins started going wrong too - Nobody noticed the lights going wrong (cept me) whereby EVERYONE noticed the music.......

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Very strange eh!

I did think at first that it might be a case of overheating because of the weather. They did have air conditioning units in the room I was in though. I also had a clip on fan on my Ultimax but it wasn't pointing at the external HD's because I was hot too.

Did some more testing yesterday in the end and all seemed ok.
I tried different scenarios to see if it was one of the external HD's, the hub or the usb keyboard.

The problem I have is that because it has happened I will now have my concerns that it could happen again.
One facility that I have never used on the Denon HD2500 is the 'Next File' option. I didn't think of it at the time as I was getting flustered but am I right in thinking that I could have DJ'd off the left side if I didn't have the back up? (luckily I did). I'll look in to that too.

I'm going to get a better back up system sorted today anyway and see if I can get the Denon looked at.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Just out of interest - Does anyone use the Denon HC5000 or Denon HC4500?

[DJIanScott]

I used the 2500 extensively, from it's launch in 2006 right up til November last year. Must admit to having no real problems with it at all (never use the internal HDD seems to be the only golden rule). I don't understand why you're using two HDDs (one per side) for your tunes. I always managed fine with just one 500Gb one.
However.....last year I realised that the software was getting very old and no longer supported by Denon with updates, etc (wasn't the last one in 2009?!) and toys such as the Key Lock were sounding very wobbly when songs were pitched up, where other more modern systems sounded much better. I even kept an old Vista PC to run the Music Manager on because I was fearful of problems with newer platforms such as Windows 8, OSX, etc.

It was a sad day for me when I admitted defeat and looked elsewhere for a new play out system. I tried the first incarnation of the Denon MC6000 a couple of years ago, but the software mapping (for Traktor) was a complete joke, so I sold it on very quickly and reverted to the trusty 2500. I now use a Pioneer DDJ-SX with a MacBook Pro, and I've gotta say that I am completely happy with it. Can't think of a single major issue with the Pioneer. It comes with Serato DJ which I find very easy to use, and of course the controller is perfectly mapped for the software straight out of the box.

Take the leap, I promise you it's worth it!

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Thanks for the advice and comments.

The reason I had 2 x external HD's was because I wanted to make sure that if one external HD became faulty, I could easily switch to the other one. That's the reason I have a different one selected for each side. In my opinion you can't have enough back up.

I've been out today and looked at the HC4500 which looks like it could be the option for me.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Ended up going for the Denon HC4500.
Purchased VDJ8 too and it works nicely.
Flightcase is a bit heavier but I can handle that. Thought I may have to get a new flightcase but everything fits in snug.

I also drilled 2 holes in the side of the flightcase so that I can turn the power on both units.

16735

[DJ Jules]

So you're not a Denon Fan then? :D

[BeerFunk]

What do you make of the 4500, Gary? As a backup system, isn't it a bit much considering the necessity of a laptop to accompany it?

I was thinking about getting an SD card player as backup, but not keen on adding it permanently into my case. The lighter weight of the MC6000 appeals, I'm thinking more and more about it...

[Shakermaker Promotions]

What do I think of it?
Well, I've only used it for around 30 minutes doing some testing but I like it. Really easy to use and no lagging either.
I don't think its too much to be honest - The idea is for back up but it could be that I use it more and more as time goes by.
It may end up as my main play out system. Having the HD2500 on there too is extra piece of mind. I've tested it quite thoroughly now and the problem hasn't been replicated (as yet).

The flightcase is heavy yes but that isn't much of an issue really.

[Excalibur]

The flightcase is heavy yes but that isn't much of an issue really.

Speaking as the man who used to use one of the most cumbersome, heavy and awkward flightcases known to mankind, I would never ever countenance returning to such a setup. The joy of strolling into a venue with the VMS in one hand, and a laptop over my shoulder, knowing that I've got my basic playout all there is immense. It sacrifices a small amount of the immense capabilities of the x-500, but not enough to make it an issue.

Gary, I know one highly respected forum member who has replaced an MC600 with a 4500, one who's about to, and one who wants to. You're in good company, but I won't be joining your club. ( Might have a dabble at one of the 6000s though, as backup )

[Shakermaker Promotions]

I looked at the MC6000 and also the MKII and I personally thought that it wasn't for me. I don't think I would have used it to its potential.
I also looked at another option which was a Numark thing (can't remember the model) that worked off the iPad which was really simple and would have done the trick too but I just fancied the HD4500.

Going to test it properly in a gig environment tonight as I am at my local. It will also give me the chance to go through the HD2500 again for a good 4 hours to see if there are any hiccups. I am only out tonight before it gets stupidly busy for the next couple of months so should anything need tweaking, I have plenty of time tomorrow and up until next Friday.

[yourdj]

I love Denon :) - I used to have that exact set up, mixer and all. The denon Serato controller is spot on if you don't mind small platters and not many features (such as the three cue points). Solid, simple and reliable.

Keep an eye out for the denon version of the Numark NV as that will be a stand alone unit like the HD2500. Bit like this but much better (Hopefully). I am hoping for a sneaky peak at some point soon as they seemed happy with my 6000 mk2 review.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXmXrnrZTAU

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Flightcase is a bit heavier but I can handle that.

A bit heavier? :zip::eek:

That is exactly what I used for ages, but the MC6000 makes everything more flexible and is so much lighter....

[Shakermaker Promotions]

I can handle it mate, honestly it isn't that bad.
I've gone through the system again today (whilst it's hotter than hot outside) and I've changed a few things.
When I installed VDJ8 I got rid of VDJ7. I re-installed that just to be safe.
I also took out the internal HD on the Denon HD2500 as for some reason this afternoon it decided to start creating a database for it when it hasn't worked for years? Very strange!
I also noticed that one of the external HD's suddenly went from having 15,000+ tracks to 8500. This was the one (Seagate powered) that I thought may have been causing the problems. I took it out of the flightcase, hooked it up to Music Manager and yes only 8500 tracks?? I clicked on one of them - The Black Keys - Gold On The Ceiling and guess what..... Gangnam Style started playing.......even stranger!!

I've been sat here for the last few hours sorting out back up.....Luckily (although I didn't think it at the time), I was awake and up at 5.00am.

[Excalibur]

A bit heavier? :zip::eek:


I can handle it mate, honestly it isn't that bad.


I said that too. I was wrong.

That is exactly what I used for ages, but the MC6000 makes everything more flexible and is so much lighter....
With the rider that no so much of my kit bore the legend "Denon" as my colleague, he is 100% correct.


I also noticed that one of the external HD's suddenly went from having 15,000+ tracks to 8500. This was the one (Seagate powered) that I thought may have been causing the problems. I took it out of the flightcase, hooked it up to Music Manager and yes only 8500 tracks?? I clicked on one of them - The Black Keys - Gold On The Ceiling and guess what..... Gangnam Style started playing.......even stranger!!
.

I didn't say anything earlier Gary, but I thought having two HDs hooked up permanently was a bad idea. You had a backup playout ready, so in the event of a failure of drive 1, simply play a track from backup, swap with drive 2, and reboot.

And of course, there are the financial consequences of doubling the number of mp3s being used as playout. :whistle:

[Shakermaker Promotions]

I understand what you're saying mate. The thing is, I'd always used it with 2 x external HD's connected. Remember, it has the capability of taking up to 4 x external HD's at the same time. I think / hope I've sorted everything now. My next gig is a wedding on Friday and then my first night at another residency on Saturday so it will all get a full work out and any teething problems I have can be sorted during the following week.

I do like the HD4500 though. Really simple to use. The DJiO and DJ2Go are now redundant but I'm going to keep hold of them.
Being the paranoid bloke that I am and insistent on back up, I am going to get a back up adaptor / power supply for the laptop aswell just to be safe.

[Shaun]

Keep an eye out for the denon version of the Numark NV as that will be a stand alone unit like the HD2500.

So something IS coming out from Denon after all that doesn't require a laptop?

[yourdj]

So something IS coming out from Denon after all that doesn't require a laptop?

I assume so Peter, as it would seem the logical step and I bet they do it before Pioneer as they normally do as they use the same R&D team as Numark as they now owned by them So yes I think that it won't be long. Looking at the NV its looks like a trend setter. Denon should be Pioneer level kit if it is set apart from the Numark stuff - Serves Pioneer right for hitting into the bedroom market with the SB LOL. :)

I am apparently on a list to test it and also review it, so will keep you updated assuming i am allowed too.

[Excalibur]

So something IS coming out from Denon after all that doesn't require a laptop?
Calm down Shaun, take deep breaths, have a small sip of a restorative tipple. ( Small sip mind, too early for wild rejoicing )


I assume so Peter.

Peter? Peter? Since when did I get all excited about new Denon kit? Toby, you quoted and were replying to Shaun, a few hundred miles North of me. I'm over here, lower down, and further to the right.:D

[Shaun]

Keep an eye out for the denon version of the Numark NV as that will be a stand alone unit like the HD2500.


I assume so, as it would seem the logical step

So which is it? Lol. From your first mention of it it sounded like you might have had some inside info. Your last post reads like it was just an assumtion?


There's been "rumours" for years now about a new Denon standalone controller. It all seems to be nothing more than chinese whispers at the moment. :daft:

[mattydj50]

Perhaps BPM may offer us first sight of this mighty new Denon beastie.

[Shaun]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXmXrnrZTAU

I had a look online to find out more info of the Numark NV, as the prosepct of a new standalone controller seemed tempting. I might just have bought one.

Until I read the following...


With the Numark NV you still need your laptop plugged in but you can have it totally out of sight

So not a standalone controller at all.





*Edit: apologies Gary for veering off-topic

[Benny Smyth]

I suspect that the Numark screen will be too small. They certainly cannot offer what we have on a laptop screen.

I have a suspicion that Native Instruments will have a considerably better concept in the near future.

[Shaun]

I suspect that the Numark screen will be too small. They certainly cannot offer what we have on a laptop screen.



No smaller than the screen on the HD2500, which I always thought was ample. I have heard a few people saying that they thought the screen on the HD2500 was too small though.

[Excalibur]

There's been "rumours" for years now about a new Denon standalone controller. It all seems to be nothing more than chinese whispers at the moment. :daft:
Indeed there have, Shaun. I told you not to get too excited, now calm down, or Nurse will have to bring some more of your medication. ;)


Perhaps BPM may offer us first sight of this mighty new Denon beastie.
We can only hope so. This time, I think it could be a possibility.

( But I'm still not holding my breath. )


I had a look online to find out more info of the Numark NV, as the prosepct of a new standalone controller seemed tempting. I might just have bought one.

Until I read the following...


So not a standalone controller at all.


Come on Shaun, you're swimming against the tide. Faster searches, more buttons to impress punters with, big big screen with as much information as you could ever want, plays Karaoke files, and so simple that even I've got one. I've never heard a more convincing argument. :whistle::D:D


. I have heard a few people saying that they thought the screen on the HD2500 was too small though.

When I had the Cortex, the two screens were even smaller, but still told me enough. If they'd fitted them with indestructible "Play" buttons, I'd be a Luddite like Shaun, castigating the Laptop Larrys for not being " proper " DJs.

[Shaun]

I have a suspicion that Native Instruments will have a considerably better concept in the near future.

And my head is saying " I very much doubt it. :zip:





Come on Shaun, you're swimming against the tide. Faster searches, more buttons to impress punters with, big big screen with as much information as you could ever want, plays Karaoke files, and so simple that even I've got one. I've never heard a more convincing argument. :whistle::D:D

Lalalalala I'm not listening ....lalalalalalalalala.

[yourdj]

Its all going very starship enterprise if you ask me as setups have moved away from piles of crapallover the place to more sleek and sexy.
i still like the look of a lit up macbook, but I guess that will look dated before too long as well.

That screen thing was the coolest set up I have seen so perhaps Iron man type quantum computing will take over and it will be more of a visual experience for the guests? Will be more like Tron looking at the big DJ's. If lighting and sound keep getting smaller that will be more out of the way and less visible, making a screen/booth just a crowd barrier, which lets face it we don't need at 95% of gigs (well the ones I attend anyway). ;)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hegqRGDQ_OA

[Excalibur]

If lighting and sound keep getting smaller that will be more out of the way and less visible, making a screen/booth just a crowd barrier, which lets face it we don't need at 95% of gigs (well the ones I attend anyway). ;)


Well well well Toby. What an interesting concept. Not unlike one propounded by a former member here, whose name temporarily escapes me. :whistle:

[yourdj]

Well well well Toby. What an interesting concept. Not unlike one propounded by a former member here, whose name temporarily escapes me. :whistle:

Did he get his equipment trashed then ;)
It has gone very minimal in the last few years even compared to 10 years ago and the trend seems to be continuing. :)

You definitely need something in the way on second thoughts - maybe they will have a force field or something that only zaps :muppet: 's

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Well this has gone off topic hasn't it ;)

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Update - I will be receiving a replacement HD2500 this week.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Replacement HD2500 came yesterday and it is in perfect condition. I got it from a guy who had used it a handful of times. HDD upgraded to 80GB with Solid State HD although I doubt if I will use that.
Just added the database and tested for a few hours and I'm back to where I was before the issues.

And it cost me £225.00 delivered.
Bargain!:beer1: