Urgent Speaker Help Needed - Alto TS115A vs W Audio DSR15A vs Proel V15A

[Casual77]

Hi all,

I'm in need of some urgent advice. I'm going to buying a pair of 15" active speakers in the next few days and need some advice on which way to go.

If I make a purchase by 9pm today I can get either:

A pair of Alto TS115As with matching covers for £447
or
A pair of W Audio DSR15As with matching covers for £433

These both come with a 12 month manufacturer's warranty

Alternatively, I can spend a bit more and get:

A pair of Proel V15As with matching covers for £600. These come with a 3 year warranty.

I'd appreciate any thoughts on which would be the better option from a sound quality, build quality and reliability perspective. Or if there is anything else that you think I would be better considering for under £600 I'd be interested to hear your suggestions.

Thanks.

[Benny Smyth]

I used to own a pair of W Audio PSR 15a and at the time, I thought they were very good speakers (they are now the property of another forum member, so he can chuck his tuppence in about to verify that). Assuming W Audio have improved in their evolution, then I'd maybe choose them over the Altos. The Altos sound pretty good too, to be fair.

Would it need to be a 15"? I'm sure that I'm in the minority on this, but I think a 12" sounds better on most speaker ranges. If you consider 12", then you have a few more options. If you can stretch the budget/be a smart shopper, you could get your sweaty paws on a pair of Yamaha DBR12s. Less money than the DXR range (and lighter too), 7 year warranty and they sound pretty damn good.

[Sapphire Disco]

I would get these if you buy any of the others you will end up upgrading in a year or two if you get the Yamahas you could add a sub or two for much bigger gigs.

http://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/Yamaha-DBR12-Active-PA-Speaker/1387

[Retrodisco]

FBT X-Lites would be the route I would take personally. FBT is the dogs doodahs.

[Excalibur]

FBT X-Lites would be the route I would take personally. FBT is the dogs doodahs.

From what I heard of them at Coalville, they wouldn't even make my shortlist. Very, very disappointing indeed.

Plenty of kit outshone them completely, including my LD rig. For the £600-700 mark, here's a contender from LD. GT 15 (http://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/LD-Systems-GT15A-Active-PA-Loudspeaker/12A2)

They're a slightly cheaper version of my 12" cabs. (http://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/LD-Systems-LDEB122AUK-Stinger-12-350W-Active-Speaker/EPL)

Wooden cabs on all these, very pretty, and very nice sound. Add even a cheap sub, and you're sorted.

[Retrodisco]

From what I heard of them at Coalville, they wouldn't even make my shortlist. Very, very disappointing indeed.

Plenty of kit outshone them completely, including my LD rig. For the £600-700 mark, here's a contender from LD. GT 15 (http://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/LD-Systems-GT15A-Active-PA-Loudspeaker/12A2)

They're a slightly cheaper version of my 12" cabs. (http://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/LD-Systems-LDEB122AUK-Stinger-12-350W-Active-Speaker/EPL)

Wooden cabs on all these, very pretty, and very nice sound. Add even a cheap sub, and you're sorted.

Strange that, working in a PA shop, I prefer them over the 20 other sets we have here, I love the sound from them.

[Excalibur]

Strange that, working in a PA shop, I prefer them over the 20 other sets we have here, I love the sound from them.

I have stood next to one of the most highly respected members of this forum, listening to various rigs being fed exactly the same thing, and it soon became apparent that our tastes are 180 degrees apart.

Two years ago, I stood next to another forum menber at Coalville, and we were absolutely entranced by one system. We couldn't praise it enough. Three feet away, someone was saying how poor it was.

The oft repeated mantra on here is " Listen/try before you buy.". Good advice, cos sound is a very personal thing.

[Casual77]

I should have known my post would open a can of worms for myself!

Both the Yamahas and the LD cabs look great but both cost significantly more than the Proels which were the highest cost option of the three I put forward... and then there is the significant cost of covers on top of that which would take both options to almost double the cost of the W Audio DSR15As. I must admit I wasn't overly blown away by the FBT speakers at the Liversedge meet either.

The question is where should I draw the line? If I say for instance that I am tempted by the DBR12s there will probably be a post from someone suggesting if I am paying that much I may as well push the boat out a bit more and go for the DXR12s instead! I've got my first gig lined up for a week on Friday so I need to get something suitable sorted by say next Tuesday at the latest and my overdraft has already taken a real battering!

Are any of the three originally mentioned worth considering? I can get 12" versions of any of them but the cost would only be about £20 per pair less and then presumably I would be in immediate need of a sub to go with them which would be another £250ish minimum on top.

[Sapphire Disco]

Just trying to give you good advice we've all been down this road not least me as I have 10 pairs of redundant speakers in my garage ranging from a cost of £200 to £600 a pair I wish I had purchased better ones right from the start you can get Yamaha , RCF , QSC , FBT for not too much more than the Proel.

[Benny Smyth]

I should have known my post would open a can of worms for myself!

Both the Yamahas and the LD cabs look great but both cost significantly more than the Proels which were the highest cost option of the three I put forward... and then there is the significant cost of covers on top of that which would take both options to almost double the cost of the W Audio DSR15As. I must admit I wasn't overly blown away by the FBT speakers at the Liversedge meet either.

The question is where should I draw the line? If I say for instance that I am tempted by the DBR12s there will probably be a post from someone suggesting if I am paying that much I may as well push the boat out a bit more and go for the DXR12s instead! I've got my first gig lined up for a week on Friday so I need to get something suitable sorted by say next Tuesday at the latest and my overdraft has already taken a real battering!

Are any of the three originally mentioned worth considering? I can get 12" versions of any of them but the cost would only be about £20 per pair less and then presumably I would be in immediate need of a sub to go with them which would be another £250ish minimum on top.

The Yamaha 12 inch cabs have a pretty decent bass on them on their own. Obviously, for the bigger gigs, you will need to add a sub but to start off with, it's a great place to begin.

Sapphire is correct in that you will upgrade in a couple of years if you go for the Altos or the W Audios, but you know your finances better than we do. If you think it is economically better for you to buy cheaper now with a view to spend again later, then go for that option. Saying that, no matter what you buy, there is always an option to 'upgrade'.

I would oder my own personal prefernce as:

Yamaha
W Audio
Alto

The LD's Peter mentioned I have no experience with, but the man knows what he's talking about.

[Excalibur]

I should have known my post would open a can of worms for myself!

Situation normal. ;):)


Both the Yamahas and the LD cabs look great but both cost significantly more than the Proels which were the highest cost option of the three I put forward... and then there is the significant cost of covers on top of that which would take both options to almost double the cost of the W Audio DSR15As.
I made it 12% Change to the 12" LD GT, and we're around £570. I often use just my two twelves. Ity's nice to have a sub with them, but not mandatory.


I must admit I wasn't overly blown away by the FBT speakers at the Liversedge meet either.
We'll cross them off the list then. ;)




Are any of the three originally mentioned worth considering? I can get 12" versions of any of them but the cost would only be about £20 per pair less and then presumably I would be in immediate need of a sub to go with them which would be another £250ish minimum on top.

£100 with the LD, but who's counting? :whistle: Immediate, no. Need, yes.

[Casual77]

I appreciate the advice Sapphire Disco.

I'm really torn because I know that generally speaking I always look to go down the quality route and don't like to buy anything which I know is inferior. I also know that I can easily talk myself into spending more than I can afford.

I hadn't considered that I would feel the need to quickly upgrade the speakers I have mentioned, but I have no experience of any of them and I am happy to take that on board if it is the concensus (and it sounds as though it is). The Proel speakers in particular got a glowing report in the Pro Mobile review. http://www.slideshare.net/RadikalTR/proel-v15a-review-by-pro-mobile-magazine

Ok.... so is there a general agreement that the Yamaha DBR12 would represent a solid way forward (if I can find the extra money) and that these are considerably better than the Proel V15A?

[deltic]

nothing like a retailer having a vat free day to prompt a quick possibly regrettable purchase.

how can you discount the speakers you already have if you have never used them in a gig situation? other than an odd derogatory comment probably from people that haven't used them either in a gig scenario but have heard from others that they are no good.Until you use them you couldn't possibly make that call.

the advise given thus far seems fair enough given your original post,and some good advise to boot too.However everybody's interpretation of a good sound is very different and a lot of the time it's horses for courses.

if money is tight i think i would be looking for a second hand sub to help what you have got along to cover the immediate gigs and see how you go,giving you time to fully audition the cabs on your wish list and make an informed decision based on fact.

[DazzyD]

I would get these if you buy any of the others you will end up upgrading in a year or two if you get the Yamahas you could add a sub or two for much bigger gigs.

http://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/Yamaha-DBR12-Active-PA-Speaker/1387

Having read the OP again, it is still clear to me that cost may be a huge factor in this decision!

Oh, there it is! I was right!


I should have known my post would open a can of worms for myself!

Both the Yamahas and the LD cabs look great but both cost significantly more than the Proels which were the highest cost option of the three I put forward... and then there is the significant cost of covers on top of that which would take both options to almost double the cost of the W Audio DSR15As. I must admit I wasn't overly blown away by the FBT speakers at the Liversedge meet either.

The question is where should I draw the line? If I say for instance that I am tempted by the DBR12s there will probably be a post from someone suggesting if I am paying that much I may as well push the boat out a bit more and go for the DXR12s instead! I've got my first gig lined up for a week on Friday so I need to get something suitable sorted by say next Tuesday at the latest and my overdraft has already taken a real battering!

Are any of the three originally mentioned worth considering? I can get 12" versions of any of them but the cost would only be about £20 per pair less and then presumably I would be in immediate need of a sub to go with them which would be another £250ish minimum on top.

I accept that people try and give their best opinion on things but, sometimes, the budget is the most restrictive part of the buying process. A couple of hundred pounds on top of a budget is sometimes just not possible to have. I think we can forget that money isn't always in abundance and going over budget is just not an option.

I've never used either the Altos or the W-Audios but, from what I've read on here and elsewhere, both speakers have their likers and their dislikers. Sometimes it's a just a case of "gear-snobbery" but sometimes people have genuine issues and audio is a very personal preference. My recommendation would be to have a listen to both and then see which you prefer. That's the best advice I can give.

[Sapphire Disco]

Ok.... so is there a general agreement that the Yamaha DBR12 would represent a solid way forward (if I can find the extra money) and that these are considerably better than the Proel V15A?

I have no experience of the Proel but I'm sure the Yamahas will sound as good if not better with a 12" box, the bonus is smaller , lighter, look nicer, more powerful and you can add a sub or two which no doubt you will in the end.

[Casual77]

nothing like a retailer having a vat free day to prompt a quick possibly regrettable purchase.

how can you discount the speakers you already have if you have never used them in a gig situation? other than an odd derogatory comment probably from people that haven't used them either in a gig scenario but have heard from others that they are no good.Until you use them you couldn't possibly make that call.



The speakers I've got are a pair of Mackie Thump TH15s. They are in 'as new' condition but there seems to be a unanimous opinion that Thumps aren't all that great sounding or reliable. I'm told that there are issues where they cut out if driven too hard which on my first gig is something I'd prefer not to experience.

I think I was hoping that someone might say something like 'that's a good price for the Altos or the W Audios which are broadly comparable but the Proels are a much nicer speaker and would be worth paying that bit extra for' to rubber stamp that I was making a reasonable decision.

I was probably pushing the boat out a bit at £600 but if there is a compelling argument to spend a little bit more for a much better Yamaha or LD speaker I would be daft not to listen.

[Benny Smyth]

I'm told that there are issues where they cut out if driven too hard which on my first gig is something I'd prefer not to experience.

There is a hard and fast remedy for that.

I was not aware you had speakers already. With that in mind, treat the kit you have with the respect it deserves, earn some money and then upgrade when you have more funds. Don't buy for the sake of it. That's a slippery slope.

[Casual77]

treat the kit you have with the respect it deserves

How much respect do the Mackie Thumps deserve? I've listened to them and they sound 'ok' but according to several people who are more knowledgeable in this area than me and various online reviews that they are generally pretty crap.

My only concern is that I've got imminent gigs that have been dropped on me and I don't really want to be worrying that my speakers are not up to the job on top of everything else that I need to think about.

If the Thumps are fit for purpose I could wait until I sell some surplus gear that I've got before I buy anything. It was really the VAT-free day that was pushing me into making a quick decision, but if we take it that the Altos and W Audio speakers aren't worth going for then I've got at least an extra few days before I need to think about doing anything.

[Benny Smyth]

How much respect do the Mackie Thumps deserve? I've listened to them and they sound 'ok' but according to several people who are more knowledgeable in this area than me and various online reviews that they are generally pretty crap.

My only concern is that I've got imminent gigs that have been dropped on me and I don't really want to be worrying that my speakers are not up to the job on top of everything else that I need to think about.

If the Thumps are fit for purpose I could wait until I sell some surplus gear that I've got before I buy anything. It was really the VAT-free day that was pushing me into making a quick decision, but if we take it that the Altos and W Audio speakers aren't worth going for then I've got at least an extra few days before I need to think about doing anything.

What I meant was if you treat your kit well, it will look after you. Don't push them so hard to the point that they'll cut out - that will go for any speaker. You say they sound OK - was that your opinion before you heard everyone else's opinions, or were you happier?

Straight up, today is the wrong day to be buying kit. You're clearly unsure of what you want and your money may get wasted. Take your time, give the speakers you have a chance and review later. :)

[Nakatomi]

First of all, there will always be 'more knowledgeable' people who'll trash something for reasons they can't adequately explain. Yes, there are reports of Mackie Thumps being dead easy to blow up, but we never know all the facts no matter how 'honest' anybody claims they are ("No, I never redlined em all night, guv, HONEST"). It'd be easy to fall into the trap of having too high an expectation of how they'd perform for sure.. crank them as loud as their older brother the SRM450 V1/V2 and er.. they may not last the same distance.

I've heard some very cheap speakers sound very acceptable & loud in my time, so not all cheap speakers are crap. Don't write them off yet.

And remember: any posh fancy expensive PA can sound rubbish with the wrong person at the other end of its line input cable

[Casual77]

You say they sound OK - was that your opinion before you heard everyone else's opinions, or were you happier?

They sound 'ok' as in not terrible but not overly impressive either. Having said that, the only comparison I've got is with the Yamaha DXR15As and Peavy Hisys H12 which both sounded really good (but then for the money they cost you would expect them to sound good). I heard the bad reviews of the Thumps before I bought them (as strange as that sounds). I picked them up as part of a bundle with some lights and other gear that I wanted and always thought that I'd sell them on and put the money towards something better.

[Andy P]

I started off with a set of Ekho RS12a's which I bough off the amazon reviews. Most people on here wouldn't spit on them and they did me for a year for £220 a pair. I blew them and re-coned them for less than £50 with qtx drivers. They had a hard life in my hands and learned me a good deal about looking after your audio equipment. I've not had a single complaint about the sound quality or level, they have a solid bass feel and fill a normal sized social club.

They allowed me to fulfil my diary and save for a better pair. When used with my subs I felt they were more than adequate. I still use them for kids parties where my 15's would be overkill and agadoo sounds fine.

Then you have my mate Chris who has ran bands for years went out and spent 4 grand before his first gig on some JBL VRX system. Sounds great but its gonna take him a good years takings to pay them off and he wants to upgrade his lights. :muppet:

[Casual77]

This place is seriously bad for my bank balance! The Yamaha DBR12s are in the post and should be with me early next week. On a more positive note I have managed to sell the Mackie Thumps already so my finances aren't quite as bad as they were this morning.

Thanks everyone for the advice. I did some research in to all the speakers that you put forward but ultimately the 7 year warranty swayed me in the direction of the Yamahas. It also helped that I managed to pick them up at a really good price that wasn't much more than I was planning to spend on the Proels.

Just need a few more bits and pieces now and I should soon be ready to go.

[Andy P]

I too will probably be purchasing a pair of these in the coming weeks. Ive been interested in the views between 12s adn 15s as I was going to get 15s.

[DJColsie]

I too will probably be purchasing a pair of these in the coming weeks. Ive been interested in the views between 12s adn 15s as I was going to get 15s.

I had a pair of Wharfedale Titan 15a a few years ago, which I used without subs. They served me well for 3 years then one developed an intermitant fault. I received a few compliments on the sound and was generally happy.

Then upgraded RCF 12" and the difference was amazing.

The 15" had a warm sound but a "whole" in the mids as the large speaker struggled to cover the upper mids before the compression driver kicked in. The 12" have a much flatter frequency responce which leads to a more detailed quality sound.

Thats my experience.

[Casual77]

I've been going round in circles trying to decide whether to go down the route of buying 15" speakers or getting 12" speakers and a sub. In the end I went with the advice of Peter (Excalibur) who says that 12"s with a sub is the better option. Having said that, I've watched a few videos and read various online reviews and it sounds as though the DBR12s could be enough on their own without a sub for most small gigs. I'll probably end up getting a 15" sub to go with them though at some point down the line.

[Excalibur]

. In the end I went with the advice of Peter (Excalibur) who says that 12"s with a sub is the better option. Having said that, I've watched a few videos and read various online reviews and it sounds as though the DBR12s could be enough on their own without a sub for most small gigs. I'll probably end up getting a 15" sub to go with them though at some point down the line.

I'll have to pop along at some point and see how the Yamahas stack up. Whatever brand of 12" cab you'd got, it's amazing how many gigs they're capable of doing on their own. The sub just adds clarity, and lets the tops breathe a little bit easier. Until you've done a few gigs, you won't know how urgent your need is, but I'd be surprised if you felt you must have one immediately. Hope you're happy with them.

[Andy P]

so on an active setup from a mixing desk how would you run a mono single subwoofer?

I normally just run them stereo as a pair from the crossover in the speaker

[Casual77]

I'll have to pop along at some point and see how the Yamahas stack up.

I could do with tapping your brains some more on how best to set my rigs up etc so if you fancy doing a head-to-head sound test I could bring them over sometime soon to see how they compare with your LDs and I can see how they sound in conjunction with your Alto sub. Alternatively, I've got access to a decent sized conference room if you prefer to come over this way. Anyway, I'll be at Liversedge on Wednesday so, assuming you're going, we can discuss it then. It's looking like I might have a fair few things for the 'bring and buy' table!

ATDF - I'm very new to all this so I'm not sure about how you could pair up a passive mono sub with some active cabs. I would have thought you might need an amplifier for the sub but I'm sure there are people on here who might be able to give you an idea of how best to set it up.

[Excalibur]

so on an active setup from a mixing desk how would you run a mono single subwoofer?

I normally just run them stereo as a pair from the crossover in the speaker

One active sub with two channels will run two active or passive tops no problem. Two channels into the sub, and each filtered line output to the active cabs, or power amp. Not all ( usually cheap ) active subs have two channels. If they're only single channel, you'll ideally need two. The two channel subs can still be run one each side, no problem.

[mrrawuk]

This place is seriously bad for my bank balance! The Yamaha DBR12s are in the post and should be with me early next week. On a more positive note I have managed to sell the Mackie Thumps already so my finances aren't quite as bad as they were this morning.

Thanks everyone for the advice. I did some research in to all the speakers that you put forward but ultimately the 7 year warranty swayed me in the direction of the Yamahas. It also helped that I managed to pick them up at a really good price that wasn't much more than I was planning to spend on the Proels.

Just need a few more bits and pieces now and I should soon be ready to go.

An old post i know but how are you getting on with the Yamahas?