What power amplifiers do you use?

[rob1963]

After my thread about the volume of my system not seeming as loud as it was, it was pointed out that the power of my amplifier is not particularly high, and got me thinking that maybe I should get something with more power...even though the built-in amps in my old disco consoles were only about 150 watts each side & even though I have a colleague who also uses an amp with this rating, without any problems as far as I know.

I don't work in massive venues...mostly nice hotels & some of the local racecourses like Epsom, Kempton Park & Sandown.

I use 2 full range speakers on tripods (Warrior L300), and my amplifier is rated at 290 watts per channel into 8 ohms.

For those of you who just use 2 full range speakers like me & also work in similar venues, what is the power rating of YOUR amplifier? and do you think I need to increase mine?

Thanks in advance.

:)

[Paul James Promotions]

Something with about 400w - 500w per channel into 8 ohms would probrably suit you, and keep the amp out of clip.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Rob, I always think that it's good to have more than enough power. For example: Once I did what was expected to be a small party in a pub. I took my DB Tech active speakers (400w each side) and it ended up that there were about 200 people there! I was pushing the speakers and had the clip led flickering now and then.

I have 3 amps at the moment - 2 x Crown XLS602 amps (600w) and a Peavey CS3000G (3k). I have 2 sets of JBL JRX125 full range speakers and a set of Peavey Pro Sub Bass Bins along with 2 sets of Active speakers (DB Tech and Gemini GX450).

I tend to mix and mash stuff as I play lots of different venues but the best and loudest that I have (which is probably still not enough) is when I power the JBL's with the 3k amp and use one of the Crown amps to power the bass bins. It's a nice clear sound and loud enough. I must admit that the peavey subs are cheap and cheerful and I am not mega impressed with them at the moment but they do add to the overall sound quality.

[Tony Scott]

I sometimes use my 15inch full range boxes on their own in smaller venues.

For this I use a behringer EP2500 @ about 450w p/c RMS 8ohm. I have had no issues with any of the 3 behringer amps I have.

All depends on what you want to spend. Crown do some great lower spec stuff if you want to pay a bit more but I'm more than happy with what I run!

I am about to receive a T-amp from thomman and will use it at the weekend, will post my experience with it.

[CRAZY K]

After my thread about the volume of my system not seeming as loud as it was, it was pointed out that the power of my amplifier is not particularly high, and got me thinking that maybe I should get something with more power...even though the built-in amps in my old disco consoles were only about 150 watts each side & even though I have a colleague who also uses an amp with this rating, without any problems as far as I know.

I don't work in massive venues...mostly nice hotels & some of the local racecourses like Epsom, Kempton Park & Sandown.

I use 2 full range speakers on tripods (Warrior L300), and my amplifier is rated at 290 watts per channel into 8 ohms.

For those of you who just use 2 full range speakers like me & also work in similar venues, what is the power rating of YOUR amplifier? and do you think I need to increase mine?

Thanks in advance.

:)

Rob, has the time arrived to consider actives if you are going to make a major change.

Im certainly thinking about this for next year purely from a convenience point of view.

Your amp is losing power--my speakers are getting heavier!

Probably going to need a bass unit though for all round sound.

regards

CRAZY K

[Tony Scott]

Rob, has the time arrived to consider actives if you are going to make a major change.

Im certainly thinking about this for next year purely from a convenience point of view.

Your amp is losing power--my speakers are getting heavier!

Probably going to need a bass unit though for all round sound.

regards

CRAZY K

.......and we're all getting older, your ears are already shot Rob, legs next mate!!!

[CRAZY K]

.......and we're all getting older, your ears are already shot Rob, legs next mate!!!

Arms as well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CRAZY K

[Tony Scott]

Arms as well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CRAZY K

I think Rob has to face up to it, he hasn't got long to go really!!! lol

[Cj_The_Dj]

hi rob i use the peabey pv-1500 it is rated at 500w rms [1000peak] a side at 4 ohms i never need to peak it. i picked it up from a second hand shop for £130 and there also on ebay for about that to so if you could get one that price you will be laghtin lol also if you put this amp with a 15" 500w rms 4 ohms peavey speakers you will have enough volume the size gigs you do i do about them same as you

[CRAZY K]

hi rob i use the peabey pv-1500 it is rated at 500w rms [1000peak] a side at 4 ohms i never need to peak it. i picked it up from a second hand shop for £130 and there also on ebay for about that to so if you could get one that price you will be laghtinh lol

BUT HOW HEAVY IS IT????:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

CRAZY K

[Cj_The_Dj]

the amp is 21kg and some peakey speakers can be found at about 22kg which i think is light for a 15" spekaer

[CRAZY K]

the amp is 21kg and some peakey speakers can be found at about 22kg which i think is light for a 15" spekaer

GOOD--Hope Rob can manage that :D :D :D

CRAZY K

[Cj_The_Dj]

lol.

[Dillmiester]

I use a Dare Audio 800w (or so it says).
You dont hear of them much but they are very well made solid bits of kit (very heavy though). And they make all the right noises.

[Excalibur]

After my thread about the volume of my system not seeming as loud as it was, it was pointed out that the power of my amplifier is not particularly high, and got me thinking that maybe I should get something with more power...even though the built-in amps in my old disco consoles were only about 150 watts each side & even though I have a colleague who also uses an amp with this rating, without any problems as far as I know.

I don't work in massive venues...mostly nice hotels & some of the local racecourses like Epsom, Kempton Park & Sandown.

I use 2 full range speakers on tripods (Warrior L300), and my amplifier is rated at 290 watts per channel into 8 ohms.

For those of you who just use 2 full range speakers like me & also work in similar venues, what is the power rating of YOUR amplifier? and do you think I need to increase mine?

Thanks in advance.

:)

Until recently, I ran 200w per side into 8ohm full range for 90 % of my work. It rarely sounded too quiet.
Two other options for you are drop 4ohm subs underneath, or better in my opinion is add two 8ohm full range in parallel, giving effectively 4ohms, more power, and more drivers to move air with. IMHO more cost effective than running a tad more power into your existing ones.

[Ricesnaps]

Just to add my 4 pennys - using a Behringer EP2500, which I believe at 4 ohm provides me with about 800watts per side (but have never really looked into it too much!). I do the "8 ohm subs, 8 ohm tops" thing to get me the 4 ohm loading.

I am considering biamping in the next year or so to push a little harder for some of the bigger marquee gigs that are coming in and would certainly consider another EP2500 for that

[Tony Scott]

Just to add my 4 pennys - using a Behringer EP2500, which I believe at 4 ohm provides me with about 800watts per side (but have never really looked into it too much!). I do the "8 ohm subs, 8 ohm tops" thing to get me the 4 ohm loading.

I am considering biamping in the next year or so to push a little harder for some of the bigger marquee gigs that are coming in and would certainly consider another EP2500 for that

yeah got 3 behringers, I love 'em. about 450 - 500w at 8ohms. would be ideal for Rob I would have thought. £230 i think last time i checked. :)

[Paul James Promotions]

Two other options for you are drop 4ohm subs underneath

Only if you amp runs down to 2 ohms, else it will go into protect.

[Excalibur]

Only if you amp runs down to 2 ohms, else it will go into protect.

I would have said 8 ohms if that had been the case, but it's not! Impedance will be governed by subs,therefore I say again 4ohm subs

[Excalibur]

Just to add my 4 pennys - using a Behringer EP2500, which I believe at 4 ohm provides me with about 800watts per side (but have never really looked into it too much!). I do the "8 ohm subs, 8 ohm tops" thing to get me the 4 ohm loading.

I am considering biamping in the next year or so to push a little harder for some of the bigger marquee gigs that are coming in and would certainly consider another EP2500 for that

8ohm subs, 8 ohm tops gives you........................................8 ohms, not 4.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

8ohm subs, 8 ohm tops gives you........................................8 ohms, not 4.

Not if you are linking them - the amp will present a 4 Ohm load to the cabs.

Or even the other way round...

[DMX Will]

We use:

Tops Amp: 2x 1200w @ 4 Ohms (we use 2x 8 ohm speakers a side = 4ohms)
Sub Amp: Bridged @ something like 2400w @ 4 ohms (2x 8 ohm subs = 4ohms)

Never really gets to the point where we have to watch clipping.

[Tony Scott]

8ohm subs, 8 ohm tops gives you........................................8 ohms, not 4.

I think ricesnaps was saying that he has one 8ohm sub & one 8ohm mid/top wired in parallel on one channel of his amp and the same on the other channel. This gives him 4ohms total presented to each side of his amp.


8ohm + 8ohm (wired in parallel) = 4ohm

8ohm + 8ohm (wired in series) = 16ohm

:)

[Ricesnaps]

I think ricesnaps was saying that he has one 8ohm sub & one 8ohm mid/top wired in parallel on one channel of his amp and the same on the other channel. This gives him 4ohms total presented to each side of his amp.


8ohm + 8ohm (wired in parallel) = 4ohm

8ohm + 8ohm (wired in series) = 16ohm

:)

What that man said.

To be honest I forget the maths, but I did all the sums a while ago. My subs have an output on them that show the two speakers as wired in parallel to the amp, so hey presto, 4 ohm!

[Excalibur]

What that man said.

To be honest I forget the maths, but I did all the sums a while ago. My subs have an output on them that show the two speakers as wired in parallel to the amp, so hey presto, 4 ohm!


Sorry but no! They are not effectively wired in parallel if you are using the built in crossover, they behave as one speaker. If you are actually using a sub and a top wired in parallel that is just plain silly, and two tops would be better.

[Excalibur]

I think ricesnaps was saying that he has one 8ohm sub & one 8ohm mid/top wired in parallel on one channel of his amp and the same on the other channel. This gives him 4ohms total presented to each side of his amp.


8ohm + 8ohm (wired in parallel) = 4ohm

8ohm + 8ohm (wired in series) = 16ohm

:)

Check out class-D , esp the fat beast spec. With 8ohm subs and tops, in order to run at 4 ohms, they use a set of full range speakers in parallel with the subs to bring that down to 4 ohms. Then from the output of the subs another pair of speakers receiving only hi end from the subs. Yes two 8ohms in parallel gives 4ohms, but tops fed from crossover outputs is in effect one p[air of speakers, not two. Add another set, or bi amp.

[Tony Scott]

Let's get some clarification on the kit used.

If as suggested the subs have a passive x-over which supplies bass to the subs and mid/top frequencies to the mid/tops in them then it is quite likely that the resistance presented will be 8ohm.

If the subs only have a low pass (bass) filter in them or no filter at all then the load presented will be 4ohm.

Ricesnaps give us exact make and spec please.

:)

[Excalibur]

Let's get some clarification on the kit used.

If as suggested the subs have a passive x-over which supplies bass to the subs and mid/top frequencies to the mid/tops in them then it is quite likely that the resistance presented will be 8ohm.

If the subs only have a low pass (bass) filter in them or no filter at all then the load presented will be 4ohm.

Ricesnaps give us exact make and spec please.

:)

Agreed, apologies for assuming that scenario one was the one in operation.If however there is no filter in the subs, then why use subs, and not full range?

[Tony Scott]

Agreed, apologies for assuming that scenario one was the one in operation.If however there is no filter in the subs, then why use subs, and not full range?

No apology needed, healthy debate! :)

Suppose if the top cabs are 15" full range and can handle a good amount of bass on their own then putting the subs under them with a full range signal will enhance the bass frequency responce to some extent? Specially if the subs are tuned nicely. They wouldn't reproduce anything above about 1khz anyway.

[Excalibur]

No apology needed, healthy debate! :)

Suppose if the top cabs are 15" full range and can handle a good amount of bass on their own then putting the subs under them with a full range signal will enhance the bass frequency responce to some extent? Specially if the subs are tuned nicely. They wouldn't reproduce anything above about 1khz anyway.

Agreed again, mainly, but feeding a sub with a full range signal to be reproduced as a full range is inefficient. If I remember right, feeding high frequencies to a sub degrades the bass, as the speaker is trying to produce too wide a range of frequencies.

My original reply to the original poster still holds good in my opinion, the most cost effective option is another pair of full range in parallel.
A perhaps better, though more costly, is active crossover, and bi amp. This is where I am at the moment, and will let you know how it is going when I have used it a bit more. First time out on Saturday, and 750w of subs and tops sounded very close to 1500w of full range.

[Arnold_disco]

I use a Prosound 400. 2x 100wrms@8 ohms. I only really do kids partys. The speakers are 150rms. It was a cheap Package from Maplins:zip:. Happy with it though. Never had a problem apart from some one shouting down the mic.

[Tony Scott]

I use a Prosound 400. 2x 100wrms@8 ohms. I only really do kids partys. The speakers are 150rms. It was a cheap Package from Maplins:zip:. Happy with it though. Never had a problem apart from some one shouting down the mic.

I had a kid steal, shout down & then drop my £300 Beyerdynamic Mic, it never worked again!!! :mad: :bang: :mad: I now don't do kids parties, if an adult picks my mic up at least I can have ago at them! Not the same with a 7 yr old! :D

[DMX Will]

I had a kid steal, shout down & then drop my £300 Beyerdynamic Mic, it never worked again!!! :mad: :bang: :mad: I now don't do kids parties, if an adult picks my mic up at least I can have ago at them! Not the same with a 7 yr old! :D

Sounds like you need a "you will pay for damages" clause in your T's and C's :)

[theoloyla]

Rob, I am even older and my ears are definately not what they were (and neith is the rest of my body either!) but I do agree with you. During the late 80's and 90's I ran a Cloud Buckingham which was only 200 watts at 4 ohms but it was always loud enough for me. In fact at many small venues I would only use a pair of 8 ohm cabs effectively halving the power. Nowadays I use a KAM 200 for linedancing and a Peavey 900 for discos but to be honest it doesnt seem as loud to me as my old Cloud or any louder than the KAM.

[sleah]

I use what ever combination is appropriate of:

1 x Yamaha P3500 (2 x 500w RMS > 4ohm)
1 x HH V800 (2 x 400w RMS > 4ohm)
1 x Ramsa (Panasonic) WP-1400 (2 x 400w RMS > 4ohm)

Very rare to use all 3, the Ramsa is really a backup and use for odd little PA jobs.

[flatliners]

all my speakers are powered so no need for amps although i do have a qsc 950w
amp
but if i had space in my van and someone to help me carry them in i would get a sound systen built by trever worton ( aka clever trever or the doctor )
this is the man weho had one of the main guys from martin audio with his head up trevors base bin trying to work out how he got the base the sound on the system is crisp and clear top end and solid base but they are heavy beggers

[Tony Scott]

Rob, I am even older and my ears are definately not what they were (and neith is the rest of my body either!) but I do agree with you. During the late 80's and 90's I ran a Cloud Buckingham which was only 200 watts at 4 ohms but it was always loud enough for me. In fact at many small venues I would only use a pair of 8 ohm cabs effectively halving the power. Nowadays I use a KAM 200 for linedancing and a Peavey 900 for discos but to be honest it doesnt seem as loud to me as my old Cloud or any louder than the KAM.

Just pondring whether or not it has to do with the more dynamic quality of Digital music?
It seems a lot less forgiving than vinyl, you know that warm, full and slightly wooly sound 'v' the clean, crisp & some would say too real sound you get from digital.

No doubt that the digital sound quality is better but I think we need more power to play it with and to cope with the extra dynamics.

Only my thoughts, more of a question or invitation to debate really. :)

[theoloyla]

Just pondring whether or not it has to do with the more dynamic quality of Digital music?
It seems a lot less forgiving than vinyl, you know that warm, full and slightly wooly sound 'v' the clean, crisp & some would say too real sound you get from digital.

No doubt that the digital sound quality is better but I think we need more power to play it with and to cope with the extra dynamics.

Only my thoughts, more of a question or invitation to debate really. :)
You might be right but I am not expert enough to tell you.

[TONYTIGER]

All very technical interesting stuff ,but heres a thought when you buy a amp do you believe the manufactures power ratings, theres lots of amps that come from the far east and a certain American brand that give power ratings that are pie in the sky. I have got some old valve amps 100 watt that take so called modern 500w amps to the cleaners ,so try before you buy. TONYTIGER

[Sapphire Disco]

All very technical interesting stuff ,but heres a thought when you buy a amp do you believe the manufactures power ratings, theres lots of amps that come from the far east and a certain American brand that give power ratings that are pie in the sky. I have got some old valve amps 100 watt that take so called modern 500w amps to the cleaners ,so try before you buy. TONYTIGER


So if that is the case is there any reliable way of testing your amps power ?also we could be buying a nice pair of 500 watt speakers and find they are not being driven properly :mad:

[Tony Scott]

I have got some old valve amps 100 watt that take so called modern 500w amps to the cleaners ,so try before you buy. TONYTIGER

Got to agree with you there Tony, I've still got some Orange 120w valve slaves, even though before I retired them the tubes in them had
5 yrs hard use they still really push my PD1850's, use them for testing in the garage.

[Ricesnaps]

Not completely sure if this fits in or not, but I'll say my bit.

Had the pleasure of young Quinny coming over to my gig last night, along with his massive JBL speaker set up - can't remember exactly what model, but my tummy is still sore from the pounding the subs gave it!

First time I've worked with a bi-amp set up, using my Behringer for the subs and Quinny's Alto for the tops. The increase (or seeming increase) in power was very impressive. Certainly think I might consider a similar amp set up.

Would say that for what I do, I still prefer the out and out clarity of my Martin Mach set up, but certainly a pleasurable evening!

[theoloyla]

Not completely sure if this fits in or not, but I'll say my bit.

Had the pleasure of young Quinny coming over to my gig last night, along with his massive JBL speaker set up - can't remember exactly what model, but my tummy is still sore from the pounding the subs gave it!

First time I've worked with a bi-amp set up, using my Behringer for the subs and Quinny's Alto for the tops. The increase (or seeming increase) in power was very impressive. Certainly think I might consider a similar amp set
But do you really want your audience to hurt the next morning?

[Tony Scott]

Not completely sure if this fits in or not, but I'll say my bit.

Had the pleasure of young Quinny coming over to my gig last night, along with his massive JBL speaker set up - can't remember exactly what model, but my tummy is still sore from the pounding the subs gave it!

First time I've worked with a bi-amp set up, using my Behringer for the subs and Quinny's Alto for the tops. The increase (or seeming increase) in power was very impressive. Certainly think I might consider a similar amp set up.


Highly recommend it Rice! :)

Multi way systems just take things to a different level, I always bi-amp as an absolute minimum, even if I'm just using my full range cabs, powering the 15" Drivers and Horns seperately within the same cabinet.

Multi-way takes a bit more setting up but I feel the extra effort pays off.

My big rig is 4-way (Sub + Bass + Mid + Top) :)

[PropellerHeadCase]

On the mini-debate about power versus output differential between old and new amps...

I suspect that the older amps/speakers were probably presenting a realistic RMS or programme (probably RMS) rating, and a conservative one at that. As more and more hobbyists and amateurs started getting into sound reproduction (especially bedroom DJs) there was a shift in the way speakers were marketed, i.e. peak power output (because bigger numbers sell more speakers), even though the only way to utilise this number is to send a square wave to the thing.

I suspect that Tony's comment about digital versus analog sound also has an impact on th power required to represent the sound efficiently and safely.