LWP to meet MCPS re. a new way forward

[kilmeedyman]

All members of the DJ Licensing Working Party (LWP) are meeting with MCPS at their headquarters at 11am, Thursday 29th November.

Discussions with MCPS have revealed a slightly different approach to licensing DJs than was proposed before which is the reason for describing it as a new way forward.

I will report here at the earliest opportunity. Bearing in mind I am working Thursday nght that may not be until Friday morning.

Phil Cunnington
DJ Licensing Working Party

[Spirits High]

Thanks Phil

Look forward to an update

[Corabar Entertainment]

Great to hear there's some movement on this.

Look forward to the report from the LWP afterwards.

Keep up the good work! :approve:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I hope you all appreciate this. I've got to be up at 7:30am now!!:eek: :eek: :eek:

[rob1963]

I hope you all appreciate this. I've got to be up at 7:30am now!!:eek: :eek: :eek:

You better have an early night then!

:p

[Corabar Entertainment]

You know we appreciate you Darren :rose:

[Penfold42]

I hope you all appreciate this. I've got to be up at 7:30am now!!:eek: :eek: :eek:

Where's the violin smilie........:D

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

You better have an early night then!

:p

I've got to go and pick gear up from a venue tonight too. :(

Anything last minute that anyone would like me to ask the MCPS (that hasn't been covered before)

[Have a disco]

Quick get a Harp out see if we pluck the heart string LOL

At last some one is willing to move will the PRS also be attending??? ask them what are we going to do about promo companies whom regularly flout the rules on digital downloads by using the likes of limewire pro / whipit type sites too promote their artists product?

[Dragonfly]

and so it begins .................

glad to see something is happening on this.

[robbiedj]

I hope you all appreciate this. I've got to be up at 7:30am now!!:eek: :eek: :eek:

Well, I'll have a slow walk down to the underground station about 9am.

See you later, Darren.

[Tom]

Im happy thats its going on and its going to be sorted but i also want to know asap how much this is going to cost me, so i can start saving.

[Penfold42]

Im happy thats its going on and its going to be sorted but i also want to know asap how much this is going to cost me, so i can start saving.

Good point but don't........... have you not hear everything comes to those that wait........:)

[Tom]

Good point but don't........... have you not hear everything comes to those that wait........:)

yeah and we wait and they say " you have to come up with £1000 to use your laptop as a dj". I will not be happy. :mad: :bang:

[Penfold42]

yeah and we wait and they say " you have to come up with £1000 to use your laptop as a dj". I will not be happy. :mad: :bang:

Yep OK another good point.......but.......how many :cowboy: :cowboy: :cowboy: :cowboy: ...will that get rid of??

Just a thought.......:)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Well, I'll have a slow walk down to the underground station about 9am.

See you later, Darren.

Indeed.

Make sure you get the teas in Rob. :thumbsup:


yeah and we wait and they say " you have to come up with £1000 to use your laptop as a dj". I will not be happy. :mad: :bang:

They won't be saying that, don't worry.


Yep OK another good point.......but.......how many :cowboy: :cowboy: :cowboy: :cowboy: ...will that get rid of??

Just a thought.......:)

None, because they wouldn't buy the licence anyway.

[Penfold42]

None, because they wouldn't buy the licence anyway.

:confused:

But would that not be policed then if you needed a licence.....:)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

:confused:

But would that not be policed then if you needed a licence.....:)

'Self policed' is a phrase that we have heard a lot.

[Penfold42]

'Self policed' is a phrase that we have heard a lot.

Sorry to say.. but without drifting to far off topic that sound 'pants'.....

I might be talking out of my behind here and stop me if i am.........:D
But people are asking 'Pro DJ's' to get...no buy a licence and to 'self police it' while other people can work outside that??

As i said stop me if i'm talking poo......:)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Sorry to say.. but without drifting to far off topic that sound 'pants'.....

I might be talking out of my behind here and stop me if i am.........:D
But people are asking 'Pro DJ's' to get...no buy a licence and to 'self police it' while other people can work outside that??

As i said stop me if i'm talking poo......:)

So you'd prefer a licence which is policed by the MCPS which would have to be a lot more expensive to pay for all the admin and staff involved in policing it?

[Corabar Entertainment]

I have to say that a more expensive licence that WAS policed would probably be of more benefit to the reputable DJs out there (ie driving out the illegal operators). However, wasn't there some talk of a half-way house - ie making it the responsibility of the venue to ensure that those they let on site had the necessary licence? Or did I imagine that? All it would need would be an additional clause in the venue's licence (ie next time they renewed)

[Penfold42]

So you'd prefer a licence which is policed by the MCPS which would have to be a lot more expensive to pay for all the admin and staff involved in policing it?

Ahhh.....OK...:o

As i said stop me if i'm talking poo.......:)

[PropellerHeadCase]

So you'd prefer a licence which is policed by the MCPS which would have to be a lot more expensive to pay for all the admin and staff involved in policing it?

No, but if it's self-policed how many people will bother? There's no perceivable value in doing it because the average client won't care (given that they often don't care about PAT/PLI which at least are of direct observable value). About all it will achieve is a better night's sleep for those that pay the fee. I mean, if it's a hundred quid then sure, you'd just about get it to say that you've got it, but any DJ who's having trouble finding gigs or who has hardware outlays looming it'll be the first thing to go, rightly or wrongly.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

However, wasn't there some talk of a half-way house - ie making it the responsibility of the venue to ensure that those they let on site had the necessary licence? Or did I imagine that?

You didn't imagine it, no. It was discussed and hopefully, eventually, that is the way things will go, maybe even leading onto a 'DJ' licence without which you cannot work, unless you show it to the client and the venue.

[Penfold42]

You didn't imagine it, no. It was discussed and hopefully, eventually, that is the way things will go, maybe even leading onto a 'DJ' licence without which you cannot work, unless you show it to the client and the venue.

That has to be the way forward....IMO.:)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

No, but if it's self-policed how many people will bother?

How many do you think will bother then?

Do you know how many DJs in this country?

Do you know how many of them are using Mp3/wav/wma etc

Do you know how many have bought the PPL equivalent licence?

Once again, why wouldn't people bother?

[cara]

i'd say that they should set a fair price for smaller discos

for instance if someones out doing 150 gigs a year they should pay more than say someone like myself who's just started doing 25 gigs a year

but how would they tell how many discos you do?

this could go on for a while

i'd be prepared to pay 3 figures for my licence but i simply could not afford to pay four figures

[Corabar Steve]

£999? :sj:

[Dragonfly]

I'd agree there is so many variables that its a difficult one to judge fairly by all standards. but im sure the people involved will do their best for as many people as they can.

erm 3 figures ... £9.99

£999 would actually be £999.00 thus 5 figures and not acceptable lolol

[cara]

i wonder does this mean when we buy our cd's we'll be getting a discount when we show our dj licence cards?

and another thing all this money they'll be generating, who will it be going to?

the artists? or the record companies? if it's the artists, how they distribute it evenly? for instance how will they know that kylie has been played 400 times so she should get x amount while megadeth have only been played twice so dave mustaine will get x amount?

[Have a disco]

I think a weekly figure between £4 or £5 a week quite fair for most solo DJ's or small disco's with one show and businesses whom have several DJ's under there disco name or wing should be pay £15 a week or £7.50 per booking??

also it should be upto to the licenced premises to check the hired DJ's for there licence, PLI & Pat certificates, spot checks will need to be made buy council officals as the PRS already does but should be more practive

I want the freedom to transfer music to what ever format I prefer ie CD MP3 or vinyl and be not held to ransom for every tune I play

[Danno13]

I think a weekly figure between £4 or £5 a week quite fair for most solo DJ's or small disco's with one show and businesses whom have several DJ's under there disco name or wing should be pay £15 a week or £7.50 per booking??

Wouldn't it be easier for each individual DJ to just sort their own license?

[Have a disco]

I agree with every DJ needing a licence but in practicality anyone could be classeed as a DJ in a larger business so that would mean the secretary covering a booking could need one as well or say a barman in a club or hotel so a company DJ licence will need to be viewed as well

[Dragonfly]

I agree with every DJ needing a licence but in practicality anyone could be classeed as a DJ in a larger business so that would mean the secretary covering a booking could need one as well or say a barman in a club or hotel so a company DJ licence will need to be viewed as well


why??? if you work as a dj ..... you need a licence .... if your company secretary or your hotel barman cover gigs ...... they need a licence

who pays for that is upto the secretary , company , barman , hotel???

[Have a disco]

a bit pointless if your only doing 1 off events due to the regular DJ letting you down? a hotel with an inbuilt system would get one for all its staff as a company rather than an individual DJ, its swings and roundabouts in the end

[CRAZY K]

I think a weekly figure between £4 or £5 a week quite fair for most solo DJ's or small disco's with one show and businesses whom have several DJ's under there disco name or wing should be pay £15 a week or £7.50 per booking??

also it should be upto to the licenced premises to check the hired DJ's for there licence, PLI & Pat certificates, spot checks will need to be made buy council officals as the PRS already does but should be more practive

I want the freedom to transfer music to what ever format I prefer ie CD MP3 or vinyl and be not held to ransom for every tune I play

I agree with that--dont forget Mini Disc as well.

Its typical rip off Britain---effectively double charging--

Mind you a lot of my work is where there are no licences
i.e Marquees, Barns, Private Houses etc.

CRAZY K

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Its typical rip off Britain---effectively double charging--




Double charging for...?

[Tom]

this may sound daft but i just want to check.

you know on the cd in small print it says not for public performance, the dj licence would cover this, thus being allowed to use the cd for public performance at disco's.

[Corabar Entertainment]

this may sound daft but i just want to check.

you know on the cd in small print it says not for public performance, the dj licence would cover this, thus being allowed to use the cd for public performance at disco's.Now you're in a completely different licencing territory there. Have a look here: http://www.mobilediscodirectory.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=3034&highlight=licence regarding that

[Tom]

Thanks Angela. :)

[sleah]

why??? if you work as a dj ..... you need a licence .... if your company secretary or your hotel barman cover gigs ...... they need a licence

who pays for that is upto the secretary , company , barman , hotel???

Just the same as someone doubling as a doorman - still need an individual license.


a bit pointless if your only doing 1 off events due to the regular DJ letting you down? a hotel with an inbuilt system would get one for all its staff as a company rather than an individual DJ, its swings and roundabouts in the end

If a venue has a built in system with their own music, they will (or should be) covered anyway, regardless of who operates it.
If you mean a system without onboard music then I see your point, but you could still apply my above reply.
If a venue's doorman doesn't show up, and they can't get a licensed replacement, they close, they can't get the barman to do it.

All depends how DJ's would be licensed really:shrug:

[kilmeedyman]

Statement from the DJ Licensing Working Party (LWP)

All members of the DJ Licensing Working Party (LWP) met today (29 Nov) with MCPS at their headquarters in London.

We are pleased to advise you that the meeting was enlightening and productive for both sides and was held in an atmosphere of mutual co-operation.

Whilst details of our discussions have to remain private for now, the LWP are pleased to inform all those we represent, and other interested parties, that a new team at MCPS have taken up responsibility for providing a licence to enable DJs to copy music as part of their profession. This new team are starting the process afresh and are using the previously established good relationship with the LWP to ensure they fully understand the way DJs work; the concerns DJs have over a new licence; and how a licence might affect DJs in carrying on their business. Particular attention was paid to digital formats, DJ hardware, DJ earnings, affordability, additional elements such as karaoke and video, existing licences, future-proofing, copying limits, enforcement, venues responsibilities and payment collection.

The LWP have no doubt that the team at MCPS are fully committed to providing a fair solution for their members and for DJs and we can say we are extremely encouraged by the approach they are now taking which possibly represents a big leap forward and much fairer deal for DJs than has previously been mooted.

We will continue to liaise with the team at MCPS over the next couple of months in order to swiftly arrive at a mutually acceptable position and at that time we will be able to give you more actual detail of what has been discussed.

[Paul James Promotions]

Looking good

[kilmeedyman]

By the way, many apologies for the late posting of this statement but I had to wait for approval of the wording from MCPS and then had gigs plus I had no internet connection all weekend so have had to wait until I came into work tonight to do the necessary.

Phil

[Have a disco]

sounds just the usual stalemate then LOL... I hope it was a really productive meeting, rather than something like a reproductive one in the past. That we have encountered in the past

I also hope they take into account the work of the unpaid promo promoters of the labels they are working for????

[kilmeedyman]

Yes it was a promising and productive meeting and not a stalemate.

The point about the promotion of tracks was well made by the LWP and noted by the MCPS.



sounds just the usual stalemate then LOL... I hope it was a really productive meeting, rather than something like a reproductive one in the past. That we have encountered in the past

I also hope they take into account the work of the unpaid promo promoters of the labels they are working for????

[Corabar Entertainment]

Glad you all feel it went well and that there is now some movement on this.

I don't want this to sound 'impatient', but is there any sort of known timescale involved? - ie do you know when the next step will be taken (or even what the next step is for that matter! :) )

[Penfold42]

Looking good

:agree:......and well done.:)

[kilmeedyman]

Mmm...

The only thing I can say is that what was discussed needs to be put into 'legalese', costed etc. and then put in front of the MCPS member's board for approval. The next board meeting is in February I believe and so both sides have said they will do what they can to get everything ironed out before then.

We do not know the timescale from approval (should that happen in February) but it is governed by the time it takes to put administration systems in place and payment/delivery methods etc.

So, in short, certainly not before next March.

Phil


Glad you all feel it went well and that there is now some movement on this.

I don't want this to sound 'impatient', but is there any sort of known timescale involved? - ie do you know when the next step will be taken (or even what the next step is for that matter! :) )

[Corabar Entertainment]

Thanks for the info Phil :approve:

[Have a disco]

and what about the PRS position with them as well

[kilmeedyman]

Badger, PRS are responsible for performance licences not copying or dubbing licences.

[CRAZY K]

Double charging for...?

Sorry for delay--holiday lag--I think the double charging would be occuring where I buy a legal copy of a track--pay the duty/royalty to own it--then have to in some circumstances theoretically buy a SG6 Licence £500 minimum according to web site-:eek: for tracks I have already paid duty/royalty on and then of course theres the normal licence requirement for playing music in public--

Reading the SG6 stuff suggests that it should be applied to large scale manufacturers and wholesalers of records, CDs etc where they are doing it on a vast scale---one original being converted thousands of times---not DJs converting their own music to MP3s for a laptop--or Mini Disc unless I am misunderstanding that point?

When you look at the market place today where you can listen to Music "free" all day on You Tube and because of CD Burning ( let alone pirate downloading) there is file sharing going on at a scale no one really can estimate--other than massive-- the record companies and the regulators have to take this into account---the record companies have as they are sometimes giving away music "free" because they realise things are different.

Hopefully the new "arrangements" will be geared a bit more to reflect the use of music by mobile music entertainers and the current state of play.


CRAZY K

[mikeee]

Sorry for delay--holiday lag--I think the double charging would be occuring where I buy a legal copy of a track--pay the duty/royalty to own it

I think you may be a bit off here. Under UK copyright law, when you purchase a CD, Video, DVD etc, you are only paying for the right to play it to yourself, you do not own the product. As it was put to me some time ago, if you buy a CD, and the artiste doesn't like it and wants it back, the record company can re call every disc and don't have to give a refund, as, technically you will have played it to yourself, thus you have heard it, no refund is applicable.

You are useing this product for reward, so you pay for it (DJ performance licence), you copy it to play, so you have a "DJ Copying Licence" (for want of a better description), and so on for each copy.

[Have a disco]

Badger, PRS are responsible for performance licences not copying or dubbing licences.

I stand corrected I did actually mean the PPL not the PRS

[CRAZY K]

I think you may be a bit off here. Under UK copyright law, when you purchase a CD, Video, DVD etc, you are only paying for the right to play it to yourself, you do not own the product. As it was put to me some time ago, if you buy a CD, and the artiste doesn't like it and wants it back, the record company can re call every disc and don't have to give a refund, as, technically you will have played it to yourself, thus you have heard it, no refund is applicable.

You are useing this product for reward, so you pay for it (DJ performance licence), you copy it to play, so you have a "DJ Copying Licence" (for want of a better description), and so on for each copy.

Im not an expert on the finer points of this Mike and I have no doubt you are correct in what you say.

BUT its about time the whole thing was brought up to date.

The whole issue to my mind in 2007 is ludicrous--does a plumber who buys a spanner and uses it for reward i.e. fitting a radiator--- have to keep paying a tax every time he uses it in his business?

A commonsense realistic approach for the future is now required and I sincerely hope that will now happen.

CRAZY K

[robbiedj]

The whole issue to my mind in 2007 is ludicrous--does a plumber who buys a spanner and uses it for reward i.e. fitting a radiator--- have to keep paying a tax every time he uses it in his business?

CRAZY K

No, but nobody owns the COPYRIGHT to the spanner.

Writers & artists hold a creative copyright to their works, retaining the right to refuse their use if they so wish.

[sleah]

No, but nobody owns the COPYRIGHT to the spanner.


Actually, not srtictly true. Some one owns the patent, i.e. the rights to the design of said spanner. In otherwords you can't make a copy of it without permission from the rights holder.
So it is a sort of comparison, although not the best:p

[CRAZY K]

No, but nobody owns the COPYRIGHT to the spanner.

Writers & artists hold a creative copyright to their works, retaining the right to refuse their use if they so wish.

Whatever the technical situation is--a new solution is required for
mobile musical entertainers in the future playing music in public.

CRAZY K

[flatliners]

how do you get into one of these mcps meetings i want to go

Admin Note:

Please don't use 'text talk' on the forum.


23. All communication should be in the English language and text language should not be used.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

how do u get into one of these mcps meetings i want to go

You don't.

The LWP has been set up for a while now and was chosen from members of the MDA, NADJ and SEDA, who are all working together with the MCPS to get a licence that is affordable and usable.

They have already stated that they don't have either the time or manpower to deal with DJs on an individual basis.

If you have any concerns or questions, I'd be delighted to put them to the MCPS at our next meeting.

[sleah]

If you have any concerns or questions, I'd be delighted to put them to the MCPS at our next meeting.

:approve: :clap: