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Thread: Distance Selling Regulations

  1. #1
    Senior Member Dynamic Entertainment's Avatar
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    Default Distance Selling Regulations

    This topic has just cropped up in the Supporters section, and think it warrants a thread for all to see...

    Anyway, the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000.... where do we stand with them?

    Two scenarios:

    1. A private client books you, and pays their Non-refunadable Booking Fee and signs their section of the contract, dated 1st January 2011, you recieve it on the 3rd, sign it as the 3rd January and post her copy back. On the 5th they decide to cancel. Now under the regs (I think I'm right here...clarify anyone?), she is entitled to cancel and claim back the NRBF due to the 7 day "cooling off" period.

    So, for my next question....when does the cooling off period begin? Is it the 1st, when they signed the contract, or is it the 3rd when you also signed it and effectivly completed the contract?

    Scenario 2:

    Exactly the same, although it was a hotel booking you direct to do their NYE...am i right in thyinking that the regs dont apply here because its business-to-business and therefore the cooling off period doesnt exist?

    Cheers

    Steve

    http://www.dynamic-entertainment.co.uk

    Tel:0800 990 3030

    The opinions here are those of an individual and not necessarily those of Dynamic Entertainment.

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    Likes Disco-ing Mark Wild's Avatar
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    7 or 14 day cooling off period depending on your T&C's I think, good question, but it's from the date they sign it I'm pretty sure of that.

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    Senior Member Dynamic Entertainment's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Wild View Post
    7 or 14 day cooling off period depending on your T&C's I think, good question, but it's from the date they sign it I'm pretty sure of that.
    Ahhh....but thats just it Mark...your T&Cs are basically out of the window for the cooling off period specified in the regs...basically your NRBF is a RBF....
    http://www.dynamic-entertainment.co.uk

    Tel:0800 990 3030

    The opinions here are those of an individual and not necessarily those of Dynamic Entertainment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamic Entertainment View Post
    This topic has just cropped up in the Supporters section, and think it warrants a thread for all to see...

    Anyway, the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000.... where do we stand with them?

    Two scenarios:

    1. A private client books you, and pays their Non-refunadable Booking Fee and signs their section of the contract, dated 1st January 2011, you recieve it on the 3rd, sign it as the 3rd January and post her copy back. On the 5th they decide to cancel. Now under the regs (I think I'm right here...clarify anyone?), she is entitled to cancel and claim back the NRBF due to the 7 day "cooling off" period.

    So, for my next question....when does the cooling off period begin? Is it the 1st, when they signed the contract, or is it the 3rd when you also signed it and effectivly completed the contract?

    Scenario 2:

    Exactly the same, although it was a hotel booking you direct to do their NYE...am i right in thyinking that the regs dont apply here because its business-to-business and therefore the cooling off period doesnt exist?

    Cheers

    Steve

    Thanks for raising this--it was my current problem that triggered this.

    Business to Business does not apply e,g, Hotels BUT what do we think of organisations like Golf Club Committee Secretaries and the like who are of course involved with a business --

    My Contract was with a Golf Club and arranged by someone who works there.

    I do know one Agency who say that the 7 days starts the day they send out a Confirmation of booking and request for a deposit--they unusually
    dont ask for a signed Contract back--just tell the client they have a booking.

    Its obviously a bit unusual for the signing of the Contract and payment of the deposit/booking fee to be 10 days before they cancel--which is what happened to me--but that was because they took forever to send back documents despite reminders from us and assurances that they DEFINITELY wanted our service.

    You clearly cant say in your T and Cs that they override the DSRs.

    However my belief is the date on which they state in writing by email that they wish to book is the start of the cooling off--not when Contracts are signed or deposits paid--of course if its over the phone you would have to confirm yourself by email or letter which are grey areas in the event of a dispute.

    As in --- I never said I wanted to go ahead

    Most times we get clients emails confirming the booking.

    I am going to introduce from today ( for non Business to Business Clients) a clause in my covering email enclosing Contract and request for NRBF to the effect that under DSR they have 7 days to cancel completely without cost AND cancellations after that date are permitted once we have the signed Contract and NRBF SUBJECT TO OUR STANDARD TERMS AND CONDITIONS.---hopefully establishing a mark in the sand.

    Unless anyone thinks that wont work---

    Probably I need to speak to Trading Standards --as if i havent got loads to do here

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    Quote Originally Posted by CRAZY K ROADSHOW View Post
    I am going to introduce from today ( for non Business to Business Clients) a clause in my covering email enclosing Contract and request for NRBF to the effect that under DSR they have 7 days to cancel completely without cost AND cancellations after that date are permitted once we have the signed Contract and NRBF SUBJECT TO OUR STANDARD TERMS AND CONDITIONS.---hopefully establishing a mark in the sand.

    Unless anyone thinks that wont work---

    Probably I need to speak to Trading Standards --as if i havent got loads to do here
    That'd strengthen your position, but I'm not 100% sure if it'd stand up in a Court. Bear in mind that EMails have the same power in court as a written letter, so an email of intent could be considered as a entering into a contract of sale (unless your T's and C's explicitly state otherwise that something else - i.e. a signed contract and NRBF - are required before you consider the sale complete).

    Julian

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Jules View Post
    That'd strengthen your position, but I'm not 100% sure if it'd stand up in a Court. Bear in mind that EMails have the same power in court as a written letter, so an email of intent could be considered as a entering into a contract of sale (unless your T's and C's explicitly state otherwise that something else - i.e. a signed contract and NRBF - are required before you consider the sale complete).Julian
    Hi Julian, as it happens thats what the current Tand Cs say to protect us against people not paying up on time so we can just write and say sorry you havent paid up--you have 24 hours to settle or we will take another booking.

    However its against us if we have a payment and then a cancellation under 7 days which is very unusual but has happened--the reason being we were strung along by these people on the pretext of the person with the cheque book is on holiday--but the event date was looming ever closer and the sale of tickets going badly--hence we end up getting paid a NRBF about 21 days before the event and cancelled 10 days later.

    Im wondering if this was deliberate.

    Perhaps Trading Standards will be of help to me

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    Quote Originally Posted by CRAZY K ROADSHOW View Post
    Hi Julian, as it happens thats what the current Tand Cs say to protect us against people not paying up on time so we can just write and say sorry you havent paid up--you have 24 hours to settle or we will take another booking.
    I've been keeping up with the story It's a bit of a balance between protecting yourselves from people who have no intent of booking (to allow you to feret out the time wasters and get bookings from people who mean business) and the people who try and hide behind the DSR's. I'd expect you to encounter people doing the latter a lot less than the former.

    One thing to bear in mind is that if you word your T's and C's so that a legal contract of sale is entered at a very early stage (i.e. based on pure Telephone or Email confirmation) and then add terms relating to payment of NRBF within x days of initiation of the contract, then you're protecting yourself from the cooling off period in the DSR's (by creating a "contract of sale" as early as possible), but giving you the right to cancel the contract on the basis that they've breached the terms, if you don't receive a NRBF and signed booking form within x days. I.e, you can continue you as you are, but the cooling off period in this case would have started from the initial verbal confirmation from the client (i.e. the point that the "Contract" was entered into). You might want to run that past a lawyer first though

    Quote Originally Posted by CRAZY K ROADSHOW View Post
    Im wondering if this was deliberate
    I expect it was, I imagine it was touch and go for a while, and then she got the go ahead from someone based on meagre ticket sales, and then someone else might have pointed out that the event was going to be a money-bleeding mess and pulled the plug.

    Julian

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Jules View Post
    I've been keeping up with the story It's a bit of a balance between protecting yourselves from people who have no intent of booking (to allow you to feret out the time wasters and get bookings from people who mean business) and the people who try and hide behind the DSR's. I'd expect you to encounter people doing the latter a lot less than the former.

    One thing to bear in mind is that if you word your T's and C's so that a legal contract of sale is entered at a very early stage (i.e. based on pure Telephone or Email confirmation) and then add terms relating to payment of NRBF within x days of initiation of the contract, then you're protecting yourself from the cooling off period in the DSR's (by creating a "contract of sale" as early as possible), but giving you the right to cancel the contract on the basis that they've breached the terms, if you don't receive a NRBF and signed booking form within x days. I.e, you can continue you as you are, but the cooling off period in this case would have started from the initial verbal confirmation from the client (i.e. the point that the "Contract" was entered into). You might want to run that past a lawyer first though



    I expect it was, I imagine it was touch and go for a while, and then she got the go ahead from someone based on meagre ticket sales, and then someone else might have pointed out that the event was going to be a money-bleeding mess and pulled the plug.

    Julian
    OH DEAR OH DEAR OH DEAR


    Just spoken to Consumer direct.

    Contracts used by ourselves are EXEMPT from the selling regulations--see Section 6.2 because they are for Leisure Services on a specific day.

    So end of thread im afraid.

    This has made my Day!!!!!!!!!!!!

  9. #9
    MDD Founder Corabar Entertainment's Avatar
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    Just for those who wish to read for themselves, the full Act can be found at:- http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2.../contents/made

    The following is a full list of the headings for each section:-

    1.Title, commencement and extent
    2.Revocation
    3.Interpretation
    4.Contracts to which these Regulations apply
    5.Excepted contracts
    6.Contracts to which only part of these Regulations apply
    7.Information required prior to the conclusion of the contract
    8.Written and additional information
    9.Services performed through the use of a means of distance communication
    10.Right to cancel
    11.Cancellation period in the case of contracts for the supply of goods
    12.Cancellation period in the case of contracts for the supply of services
    13.Exceptions to the right to cancel
    14.Recovery of sums paid by or on behalf of the consumer on cancellation, and return of security
    15.Automatic cancellation of a related credit agreement
    16.Repayment of credit and interest after cancellation of a related credit agreement
    17.Restoration of goods by consumer after cancellation
    18.Goods given in part-exchange
    19.Performance
    20.Effect of non-performance on related credit agreement
    21.Payment by card
    22.Amendments to the Unsolicited Goods and Services Act 1971
    23.Amendments to the Unsolicited Goods and Services (Northern Ireland) Order 1976
    24.Inertia Selling
    25.No contracting-out
    26.Consideration of complaints
    27.Injunctions to secure compliance with these Regulations
    28.Notification of undertakings and orders to the Director
    29.Publication, information and advice
    and this is the full wording of the section that Alan is referring to:-

    Contracts to which only part of these Regulations apply

    6.—(1) Regulations 7 to 20 shall not apply to a contract which is a “timeshare agreement” within the meaning of the Timeshare Act 1992(1) and to which that Act applies.

    (2) Regulations 7 to 19(1) shall not apply to—

    (a)contracts for the supply of food, beverages or other goods intended for everyday consumption supplied to the consumer’s residence or to his workplace by regular roundsmen; or

    (b)contracts for the provision of accommodation, transport, catering or leisure services, where the supplier undertakes, when the contract is concluded, to provide these services on a specific date or within a specific period.

    (3) Regulations 19(2) to (8) and 20 do not apply to a contract for a “package” within the meaning of the Package Travel, Package Holidays and Package Tours Regulations 1992(2) which is sold or offered for sale in the territory of the Member States.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corabar Entertainment View Post
    Just for those who wish to read for themselves, the full Act can be found at:- http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2.../contents/made

    The following is a full list of the headings for each section:-



    and this is the full wording of the section that Alan is referring to:-
    Thank you for taking the time to do this Angela, I have been busy with my wife drafting a letter to the customer explaining the above and asking for the money( or else)

    Its strange the lengths people will go to in an effort to avoid paying up

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