Need a Disco

[Excalibur]

Please don't NaD and DJmark are all about professional standards and helping / coercing folks to raise their game, so I'm happy for them to be associated with this debate.

I'm glad you said that , because as Justin stated, I thought we had gone off at a tangent in a big way, and when I'd worked up a sufficient head of steam, I was going to try to split the latest posts off into a new topic. Now I don't have to.


Right, cards on the table. As the biggest Poacher turned Gamekeeper round here, I'll admit that I have venues where the booking process is a phone call asking if I'm free on that date, and if I'm lucky, an indication of what the function is. I know the venues of course, and know the likely times, and the procedure, so everyone is happy. Except me, if the gig gets cancelled of course, and that's a big risk to take.

I have regular customers who will only need a phone call or an email to set everything up, but again, I know them well, and for some of them, cancellation charges have been, and will be applied, as both sides know beforehand.

Doing this with someone I have never had any contact with is fraught with possible pitfalls, and I now try to avoid this where possible.

In an age where electronic transactions are becoming the norm, I think most customers are reassured by having a document stating that a DJ is contracted to turn up at a stated venue on a stated date, and provide a stated service for a stated fee.( I reckon most of them wouldn't be happy to book without one. ) I'm reassured by the same piece of paper detailing when I need to arrive, when I need access, how long I'm going to play, and for how much money. Once both DJ and Client have established the basics, the minutiae can usually be negotiated on site. Without a "frank exchange of views". Usually. It's a two way street.

There you go, dirty linen aired in public. I sometimes follow the practice outlined by Paul, but I don't advocate it, in fact it's a case of "Do as I say, not as I do. ". In many ways, the absence of a contract reinforces the oft held view that we're all amateurs, who turn up and trouser a wad of the folding stuff ( without informing HMRC ) for nothing other than having a good time pressing play.

[paulg]

I have to say that aside from coming down on the side of those in favour of contracts (& agreeing with them wholeheartedly), I've not read such piffle, popycock, balderdash & flapdoodle on this forum since the days of black & white stripey DJ & the weakest link.

How could anyone feel more secure about booking somebody for an important event without a contract than somebody with one‽

Weakest link. Pointless more like

[DazzyD]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't sound like you do this full time (as in it's your main source of income).

Nothing wrong with part time/hobbyists at all, many offer a very professional service, but often the business side isn't given the same attention as the show.

Hey!! I'm only part-time and I operate as a professional project. I always have done. The reason I set up on my own was that I spent years working for multi-ops who didn't act this way and when shows were cancelled at the last minute I was always the one to lose out. I also saw a look of people disappointed as their booking wasn't what they'd expected or had even failed to turn up. I decided then that I'd be operating as a business, i.e. to make some money, whilst at the same time giving the client a good experience from the inital enquiry right through to the after-show follow-up. Customer satisfaction is everything!

I have to say that aside from coming down on the side of those in favour of contracts (& agreeing with them wholeheartedly), I've not read such piffle, popycock, balderdash & flapdoodle on this forum since the days of black & white stripey DJ & the weakest link.

How could anyone feel more secure about booking somebody for an important event without a contract than somebody with one‽

Now there's a blast from the past!!

Weakest link. Pointless more like

I don't think Steve was encouraging a discussion about random TV game shows!!

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Hey!! I'm only part-time and I operate as a professional project. I always have done. The reason I set up on my own was that I spent years working for multi-ops who didn't act this way and when shows were cancelled at the last minute I was always the one to lose out. I also saw a look of people disappointed as their booking wasn't what they'd expected or had even failed to turn up. I decided then that I'd be operating as a business, i.e. to make some money, whilst at the same time giving the client a good experience from the inital enquiry right through to the after-show follow-up. Customer satisfaction is everything!


That's the exact same reason I decided to go off on my own and start my own business!!
I do think there is a bit of snobbery when it comes to the old Full-Time v Part-Time thing (don't worry, I aint going down that avenue again).
At this time of the year I am usually quite busy. This week I have 4 functions on but it's been relatively quiet. This has been my sole income now for 8 years and I am used to the way of life and routine. I don't think I'd have the energy to work in the day and do this aswell. I'm not saying everyone is like it but I do worry that my standards and dedication would slip if I were to do both.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

For breakages you should have insurance. You can't pass liability on to your customer for something you could reasonably foresee and take mitigation. If someone knocked over a speaker, the person who booked you is no more liable for the damage than I am.

Sorry Paul, but you are completely wrong. I have just had my T&Cs reviewed by Trading Standards and they are very hot on things like this.

So in the same respect, if you book a venue and it gets smashed up by a party go-er, then the venue will just claim on insurance will they? Or will they go to the person who booked the party? The next time someone damages your property or car etc, you will be claiming on your own insurance rather than the person who did the damage will you?

What a decent man you are.

[paulg]

What a decent man you are.

I know.

[bmdj]

Sorry Paul, but you are completely wrong. I have just had my T&Cs reviewed by Trading Standards and they are very hot on things like this.

So in the same respect, if you book a venue and it gets smashed up by a party go-er, then the venue will just claim on insurance will they? Or will they go to the person who booked the party? The next time someone damages your property or car etc, you will be claiming on your own insurance rather than the person who did the damage will you?

What a decent man you are.

You would claim from your own insurance policy, it would then be up to the insurance company to chase for compensation from the third party.

Out of interest who in Trading standards did you consult? Was this your local office? Do you have a copy of the review or how did they review it? Might be useful to others if you can give more info on how you went about getting them to review your T&C's and what was actually said.

I've joined this discussion late in the day, has anyone actually had there T&C and contracts drawn up by a legal person? If you have then again details for us all would be usefull.
PaulG raises some very valid points about contract and their actual validity if they would actually be practically and legally enforceable, considering the relatively small financial sums involved.

[Corabar Steve]

Weakest link. Pointless more like

Now there's a blast from the past!!





I don't think Steve was encouraging a discussion about random TV game shows!!

Correct. Those that can figure out / remember who I was refering to will remember that was the sort of nonsense they spouted too.

[DazzyD]

You would claim from your own insurance policy, it would then be up to the insurance company to chase for compensation from the third party.

Out of interest who in Trading standards did you consult? Was this your local office? Do you have a copy of the review or how did they review it? Might be useful to others if you can give more info on how you went about getting them to review your T&C's and what was actually said.

I've joined this discussion late in the day, has anyone actually had there T&C and contracts drawn up by a legal person? If you have then again details for us all would be usefull.
PaulG raises some very valid points about contract and their actual validity if they would actually be practically and legally enforceable, considering the relatively small financial sums involved.

As Daz said, if the venue was smashed up by the guests, who would the venue be chasing for recompense? I guarantee you it will be the person who booked the venue in the first place. If the same thing happened to us - ie guests causing damage to our equipment - why should we be different? We shouldn't be and a decent, correctly-worded paragraph in our contracts (or T&Cs or whatever else you wish to call them) will offer some legal protection to us should this situation occur.

Contracts are a vital tool for anyone who takes money to provide a service as they set out exactly what both sides expect of the other. A contract that is not deemed as "unfair" under The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and also The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 is fully enforceable in a court of law. I've no idea where this idea that contracts cannot be enforced comes from. In my mind, it shows little understanding of the Acts and Regulations that we're bound by as "traders" or businesses in the service industry. And, from "little understanding", often comes misinformation right up to scaremongering (both of which have been evident in this very thread). For the last couple of years I've been using the fact that I work with contracts as a major selling point as it gives clients more peace of mind that I am going to turn up (I actually guarantee this via a "special guarantee" in my contract which covers this).

Has the contract I use been drawn up a legal person? Not quite. I developed the contract myself (I have a decent knowledge of the legal issues that surround contract law although I'm not a "qualified" legal person). However, my contract has been reviewed and approved by my own solicitor which is a step that was necessary for me to include the special guarantee previously mentioned. In fact, my solicitor had suggested that my contract was a little bit too biased towards the client and that maybe a couple of paragraphs should be rewritten to redress the balance. I decided not to do this as it already contains all the safeguards that I need to be in place.

But a point to remember is that a really good contract should be a "work in progress" - ie one that can be adjusted over time. It's highly unlikely that you'll cover everything in the first draft and, as this is a changing industry, the contract needs to be able to reflect this as time goes on.

[JAMdisco]

Sorry to waver off into the territory of 'on-topic'ness :

Just taken another booking through NaD - same venue I will be doing a very expensive wedding on 26th May : Royal York Hotel (the one with the 'big wheel' in the grounds).
It's a charity fundraiser but still getting quite a good fee for the stated 3 hours (almost same as a 'normal' disco). He's asked if he can pay the deposit in May as he needs to get posters and tickets printed but he has already got 50 definite confirmed.

Back to subject of contracts, I've emailed an echo-sign contract which I've asked him to sign then the date will be booked 'subject to deposit received'

There is no way I would ever work without a contract...