Hiring out Music

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Peters thread got a bit side tracked when someone mentioned hiring out harddrives with music on....

Quotes (in order below)...

I agree. You would end up having to hire out of a drive of indexed tracks aswell with it.

Which would of course be illegal

But would it....

If you could lock the drive down somehow to prevent copying, and had the relevant licences in place...would it be illegal?

I only ask because I was doing a wedding fayre with a Jukebox company this weekend...and the comcept is identical. They have the music and they are hiring it and the equipment to the client....

Interesting point...

Perhaps there are different sort of licences for a jukebox?

I agree... maybe with more discussion in it's own thread so as not to hijack Peters.

Can you split my post off to a new thread please....that way this one keeps on topic

Could you start a new thread Steve - it would make more sense then.

So, there you have it....can anyone give us a definative answer?

[Jiggles]

Here are some ideas:

http://www.instantfundas.com/2009/04...-deletion.html

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Here are some ideas:

http://www.instantfundas.com/2009/04...-deletion.html

So that gets round the locking down the harddrive...but would the practice of actually hiring out the music be legal?

[Jiggles]

So that gets round the locking down the harddrive...but would the practice of actually hiring out the music be legal?

That I cannot tell you but a simple email to PRS and such will clear that up. If you ever get a reply off them!

[Excalibur]

So that gets round the locking down the harddrive...but would the practice of actually hiring out the music be legal?

Well, logically, it could be argued that it was no different to hiring out a Jukebox. One wedding I attended as a guest had one. Now what licences are needed for that,I have no idea.

Now then, let's go a step further. In the old days, when you got two gigs, you shared the CD's between each other, and hoped that each DJ had the right ones. That's legal, obviously. Now then, for CD's read " Produb paid for MP3's". Does the guy playing the MP3's have to have the Produb licence, or can he be working for the guy with the licence. If he doesn't have to have the licence to play them, then the next step asks can anyone play them?

Steve, thanks for the thread.

[spin mobile disco]

Well, logically, it could be argued that it was no different to hiring out a Jukebox. One wedding I attended as a guest had one. Now what licences are needed for that,I have no idea.

Now then, let's go a step further. In the old days, when you got two gigs, you shared the CD's between each other, and hoped that each DJ had the right ones. That's legal, obviously. Now then, for CD's read " Produb paid for MP3's". Does the guy playing the MP3's have to have the Produb licence, or can he be working for the guy with the licence. If he doesn't have to have the licence to play them, then the next step asks can anyone play them?

Steve, thanks for the thread.

I always read it as it as you had to have the produb licence you cannot give / lend the songs to another party. As the rights to copy/ distrubute remain with the copywrite holder. As it would be your music you copied in the first place for example cd to mp3 providing another with a copy of that would be piracy?
Thats how I understood it but its such a minefield i have no idea if it correct or not.

[Dynamic Entertainment]

I always read it as it as you had to have the produb licence you cannot give / lend the songs to another party. As the rights to copy/ distrubute remain with the copywrite holder. As it would be your music you copied in the first place for example cd to mp3 providing another with a copy of that would be piracy?
Thats how I understood it but its such a minefield i have no idea if it correct or not.

But...what about downloading direct to the playout system or external hard drive....Produb doesn't come into it then....

[spin mobile disco]

If downloading direct to a playout device then you have only one copy of the music. To copy it again for another device is what the produb is for. If you made another copy without licence that would be piracey according to wording on itunes and amazon.
I wish we had the fair use system liek america it would simplify things a lot.

[Dynamic Entertainment]

If downloading direct to a playout device then you have only one copy of the music. To copy it again for another device is what the produb is for. If you made another copy without licence that would be piracey according to wording on itunes and amazon.
I wish we had the fair use system liek america it would simplify things a lot.

I know that...take produb out of the equation and assume someone set out with the intention of buying the mp3s specifically for a playout system for hire... What are the legal aspects of doing just that. There must be something covering it.

Incidentally, the jukebox company said that their jukeboxes have over 30,000 tracks.... and that the company they get them off sends them a disc up weekly that they use to upload the new stuff to the machines. This jukebox company is legit, supplying gaming machines etc to pubs and clubs too...

[DazzyD]

I know that...take produb out of the equation and assume someone set out with the intention of buying the mp3s specifically for a playout system for hire... What are the legal aspects of doing just that. There must be something covering it.

Incidentally, the jukebox company said that their jukeboxes have over 30,000 tracks.... and that the company they get them off sends them a disc up weekly that they use to upload the new stuff to the machines. This jukebox company is legit, supplying gaming machines etc to pubs and clubs too...

When I buy my tracks to download to my playout hard drive, I don't need ProDub. However, I am only buying the licence to use that track and that licence isn't transferrable - ie it's for my use only. I'm not allowed to hire or loan that track which, to make, means I can't start hiring out digital jukeboxes based on my music collection.

However, I know some guys that ran a dodgy jukebox operation and, thankfully, they got their just desserts!

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m.../ai_n52659702/

Disclaimer:
The company mentioned in my link may bear the same business name but are not associated in any way with forum member Steve Hanley (who's an all-round thoroughly decent chap and provides a highly professional service!).

With the inclusion of this link, there is no suggestion made, intentionally or otherwise, that any other jukebox supplier mentioned in this thread, before and after this post, is not operating within the law.

Just thought I'd best clear up those points! However, my link does show that some unscrupulous operators will try to make easy money from this subject.