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Thread: Key changer on virtual dj for karaoke

  1. #1

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    Default Key changer on virtual dj for karaoke

    hello

    Got a wedding end of this month customer says she wants a key changer for karaoke, i just realised i got it on my virtual dj but know nothing about it!

    Hopefully people will know what key change they wont but is there any website that can tell me the proper announciation of the keys for instance how do you say D#m?

    Im completly knew to key changing karaoke tracks i just use reverd to make them sound better but i had a play around myself singing and i can see how it helps! most probably use it for a couple of my songs when i sing.

    It just sounds like she doesnt know what key she would want just wants to sound good if shes singing a hard song, i could just use reverb but could i change the key instead!?

    The annoying thing is i hate karaoke as a dj becuase i feel on the night you have to have the right balance of karaoke songs and music to dance, but if she says she cant sing why on earth have karaoke!

    thanks in advance for reply's

  2. #2
    djdave01's Avatar
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    in my experiance, most singers just ask if i can 'put it down one'. Ive never been asked for a specific key so i wouldnt worry about it.
    Dave
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  3. #3
    King Of Cheese Moderator DazzyD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djdave01 View Post
    in my experiance, most singers just ask if i can 'put it down one'. Ive never been asked for a specific key so i wouldnt worry about it.
    Same here - never been asked for a track to be shifted to a specific key before. If someone did ask for this I'd assume they were a trained singer as they know exactly what they want and are aware of the subtle differences in key transition which is beyond the knowledge of your average karaoke singer. Either that or they are just trying to make themselves sound clever!!!

    Either way, the key shifter on VDJ isn't really appropriate as it doesn't let you set a particular key rather it just shifts the pitch of the original track +/- in semi-tone increments. As Dave said, singers normally just ask for a pitch-shift a notch or two either above or below the original track.

    In the past, I've tried to amend the pitch whilst a person is singing to suit their voice but I tend to find that they hear this change in the backing track and then adjust their own voice so we're no further forward! Talk about tone-deaf!! I've given up doing this now, though, as it's not worth the bother!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by salford1986 View Post
    hello
    D#m
    D#m = D Sharp minor! Bb = B flat! An octave is 8 notes A B C D E F G A, the notes in between are sharps or Flats

    I believe most pitch controls go up or down in semi-quavers (half note) up or down 2 = a quaver (whole note) eg if something is written in the key of G, down one would make it an f# (sharp) down 2 would make it f. Up one would make it a G# up 2 would make it an A. There is a bit more to it, but that is basically what you are doing.

    Cheers

    Sarah

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    King Of Cheese Moderator DazzyD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarahjovi View Post
    D#m = D Sharp minor! Bb = B flat! An octave is 8 notes A B C D E F G A, the notes in between are sharps or Flats

    I believe most pitch controls go up or down in semi-quavers (half note) up or down 2 = a quaver (whole note) eg if something is written in the key of G, down one would make it an f# (sharp) down 2 would make it f. Up one would make it a G# up 2 would make it an A. There is a bit more to it, but that is basically what you are doing.

    Cheers

    Sarah
    Whilst risking going off topic somewhat, the statement that an "octave is 8 notes" is not strictly true as an octave is not a strict number of notes but the interval (distance) between one musical pitch and another with half or double it's frequency (ie 2 Cs, 2 As, etc.). When referring to an octave in the standard key of Western music theory we are actually referring to an interval of 12 semi-tones between one pitch and another (for visualisation purposes, the keys on a piano between 2 Cs consisting of 7 white keys and 5 black). The number of intervals in a octave also differs between Western and Eastern music.

    However, this is way beyond the basics of karaoke entertainment and, as such, is totally irrelevant to the OP. As Sarah has said, the key changer changes pitch by semitone increments/decrements. The problem is, to get to a specific pitch, you'd need to know what pitch the original track was recorded in (I won't say "key" as you then need to know what notes are included in each key and this gets complicated) and then you'd have to work out how many semitones away your desired pitch is from the original. For a karaoke, this calculation would seem like an awful lot of hassle!
    Dazzy D
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    Quote Originally Posted by DazzyD View Post
    However, this is way beyond the basics of karaoke entertainment and, as such, is totally irrelevant to the OP. As Sarah has said, the key changer changes pitch by semitone increments/decrements. The problem is, to get to a specific pitch, you'd need to know what pitch the original track was recorded in (I won't say "key" as you then need to know what notes are included in each key and this gets complicated) and then you'd have to work out how many semitones away your desired pitch is from the original. For a karaoke, this calculation would seem like an awful lot of hassle!
    Out of interest, do you know what the pitch that Virtual DJ displays alongside the track actually refers to?

    Julian
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    King Of Cheese Moderator DazzyD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Jules View Post
    Out of interest, do you know what the pitch that Virtual DJ displays alongside the track actually refers to?

    Julian
    The pitch sliders can be used to change the pitch of the track currently loaded. In this case, the pitch slider actually changes the speed of the track. From here, you have two options - keylock on or keylock off. With the keylock on, the speed of the track changes but the key/pitch/tone doesn't change. With keylock off, the tone changes as the speed changes (ie increase in pitch would speed the track up but also make the pitch higher - like playing a 33.3rpm (12in) record at 45rpm. Likewise, a decrease in pitch will make the track slower and also make the pitcher lower (like playing a 45rpm record (7") at 33.3rpm).

    For the purposes of beatmatching with VDJ, you would keep the keylock on and change the pitch of the cued track to match that of the track playing on the opposite deck just the way you would if you were mixing two vinyl records.

    If you're not meaning the pitch sliders but, instead, the track info on some VDJ skins, then the pitch figure given is how many intervals (shown as whole notes and tenths on VDJ) away from the original key that the track is playing at. VDJ uses pitch steps up to 12 intervals (ie one true octave) higher/lower than the original pitch. The pitch function allows you to finely-tune your tone better than the key change plugin as it allows increments in whole notes and tenths of whole notes. So, if the pitch is showing as +1.0, then the pitch is one full note higher - ie a C becomes a D. If it's showing +1.5 then a note is 1 and half whole notes higher which would make a C in to a D#. If it's showing as -3.0 then the pitch is 3 whole notes lower than the original which would turn a C in to a G. And so on.

    My examples are putting things in a very simplistic way. Music theory is very complex and the notes you arrive at will differ depending on the original key you are using.
    Last edited by DazzyD; 09-11-2012 at 09:08 PM.
    Dazzy D
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    Quote Originally Posted by DazzyD View Post
    Whilst risking going off topic somewhat, the statement that an "octave is 8 notes" is not strictly true as an octave is not a strict number of notes but the interval (distance) between one musical pitch and another with half or double it's frequency (ie 2 Cs, 2 As, etc.). When referring to an octave in the standard key of Western music theory we are actually referring to an interval of 12 semi-tones between one pitch and another (for visualisation purposes, the keys on a piano between 2 Cs consisting of 7 white keys and 5 black). The number of intervals in a octave also differs between Western and Eastern music.

    However, this is way beyond the basics of karaoke entertainment and, as such, is totally irrelevant to the OP. As Sarah has said, the key changer changes pitch by semitone increments/decrements. The problem is, to get to a specific pitch, you'd need to know what pitch the original track was recorded in (I won't say "key" as you then need to know what notes are included in each key and this gets complicated) and then you'd have to work out how many semitones away your desired pitch is from the original. For a karaoke, this calculation would seem like an awful lot of hassle!
    OK if you want to split hairs! An Octave is 8 Notes, A chromatic Octave is 13 notes including the 2 c's. LOL!

    Sarah

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    King Of Cheese Moderator DazzyD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarahjovi View Post
    OK if you want to split hairs! An Octave is 8 Notes, A chromatic Octave is 13 notes including the 2 c's. LOL!

    Sarah
    Not splitting hairs! Music theory, the "science of sound", is a lot more complex than it's ever given credit for! Except by students of the subject who, all too often, underestimate what they're taking on!!

    The "Chromatic" octave, or that which you would find on a piano keyboard, is made up of the 12 intervals (or steps) it takes to get from one C to the next C. We wouldn't say 13 as the next C would be the start of the next octave and not within the same octave as the first C.

    However, for karaoke, we are talking about vocal range and the human voice can "slide" or "slur" between "perfect" notes. Therefore, the voice has a far greater pitch range than that of a keyboard instrument which has clearly defined pitch changes between each note. That's why the pitch function on VDJ is far better than the key changer plugin for getting the sound right and matching the singer's voice more closely. The human voice is the most complex and versatile of all musical instruments and, for that reason, doesn't lend itself too well to the clearly defined musical scales that form the rules of classic music theory. And this, in turn, makes it more difficult when it comes to creating pitch shift and key changer tools for vocal applications. In fact, I've yet to encounter such a tool that I could call "perfect".
    Dazzy D
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