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Thread: Contract Term queried.

  1. #11
    Ryu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DazzyD View Post
    I'm not too sure how you can make the client liable for the behaviour of staff at the venue. I think this responsibility lies solely with the venue management.

    As for para 4.3, I'd be inclined to see where the client is coming from. I can see how you can hold the client liable for repair/replacement/compensation for damage caused by the negligence of themselves or their guests, but I'm not sure how you'd enforce this if something was stolen by an opportunist thief who is not a guest of the client or something is damaged by a staff member or someone else working at the venue (another service provider, perhaps). For example, what if there's a fault with the venue's fire sprinkler system and it goes off by mistake causing damage to your equipment? Surely, you couldn't hold the client responsible for this but this is what your T&Cs are saying (with the wording "theft, damage or other risks").

    I'm not saying that your T&Cs are wrong or anything. I'm just trying to see things from the client's point of view. People tend to view contracts with suspicion and think they're just a way for you to "get" them. How many times have you heard someone say they're signing their lives away when signing a contract?i

    Because of my belief that a contract should be two-sided (ie mutually beneficially to me and the client) , this is the way I've drawn up the T&Cs that we use and we've never had a problem with them. But, if a client did have concerns over a particular condition, I'd first make it clear why that condition is there and, if the client doesn't accept this then I'd consider seeing if we can find some compromise to secure the gig. However, there are some terms that I simply wouldn't budge on and, if these ever became an issue with the client, then I'd have to walk away from the gig. It's as simple as that.
    I totally agree Dazzy, I want a compromise as I hold the same view as you, a contracted agreement should be one both parties are comfortable with. I think your point about opportunist thieves was where they were coming from (although this is reputable venue, and out in the sticks, so the chances are slim)

    I wonder if there is more effective wording I can use in the future...

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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by katman View Post
    Playing devils advocate here......

    whilst you may be "on site" all day would you be in the function room all day ?

    Unless you are going to remain WITH the gear all day looking like the proverbial spare part then there will be times when the gear is unattended espcecially if you are sitting in another room reading a newspaper or book etc.
    I can't see the client having any responsibility in this scenario. That's down to the owner of the kit and possibly the venue.

  3. #13
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    ...and playing further devil's advocate here...

    Say the B&G had hired table centres. Can you see "Oh it wasn't any of my guests who stole the candelabra, it was just an opportunistic thief who came in and took it, so you can't blame or charge us!" carrying any weight with the supplier?

  4. #14
    King Of Cheese Moderator DazzyD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corabar Entertainment View Post
    ...and playing further devil's advocate here...

    Say the B&G had hired table centres. Can you see "Oh it wasn't any of my guests who stole the candelabra, it was just an opportunistic thief who came in and took it, so you can't blame or charge us!" carrying any weight with the supplier?
    I can see where you're coming from, Angela, but theft, no matter how small, is a serious criminal offence and, therefore, the police should be involved. And I'm sure that UK law still states that you're innocent until proven guilty. This situation would need to be investigated properly. I'm sure I'd not be too happy having to pay for something that neither myself nor my guests, for whom I'm responsible, did. And I definitely refuse to sign any agreement that would be in a position to do otherwise.
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  5. #15
    Ryu's Avatar
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    Wouldn't my own insurance also cover theft?

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  6. #16
    King Of Cheese Moderator DazzyD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    Wouldn't my own insurance also cover theft?
    Depends on your policy. On my policy, it has be left in a secure room that is locked with an approved lock device and not accessible to the general public. If people are coming and going then the room is not locked and my insurance would probably kick up a fuss about not paying out.

    But, all insurance policies are different. Just check yours.
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  7. #17
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    I've been considering a clause as currently I do not mention anything about theft or damage to my equipment other than "if any equipment or persons are in threat of damage or injury, the performance must cease until the Client has resolved the threat".

    Mainly because of this slightly unfair clause, although I really should put something in! I guess the easiest way to figure out what the clause should be is to look at tool hire companies, I wonder what they would do if I said the mini digger they hired to me was stolen by someone else...

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  8. #18
    King Of Cheese Moderator DazzyD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ukpartydj View Post
    I've been considering a clause as currently I do not mention anything about theft or damage to my equipment other than "if any equipment or persons are in threat of damage or injury, the performance must cease until the Client has resolved the threat".

    Mainly because of this slightly unfair clause, although I really should put something in! I guess the easiest way to figure out what the clause should be is to look at tool hire companies, I wonder what they would do if I said the mini digger they hired to me was stolen by someone else...
    To be fair, if you've taken all reasonable steps to protect the mini digger, and can show this, then I would say that the hire company would have to pursue it through their own insurance after involving the police. "reasonable steps" is a term often used but it does not cover every possibility. There's always things that can happen beyond this!
    Dazzy D
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