KAM Laserscan 3D ILDA Laser

[deekay01]

Hey guys,

This is my first post on the forum and the reason I ended up here is because I found an article on Google stating the dangers of these lasers.

I'll put it plain and simple for you all, I have one of these lasers but in terms of knowledge about lasers I have none at all which is the reason I'm here for advice.

Has anyone properly tested this laser and can give me any idea of how safe the various functions are fire into the crowd from various distances? I do a lot
of small to medium sized venues and at the moment I feel that I've wasted quite a bit of money after reading about how dangerous these powerful lasers can be.

I don't want to blind anyone so if I have to sell it then so be it. One person has advised me that aslong as it stays above their eye-line all should be fine and they advised me to use tape over the front of the laser to put a block on the level it can drop too. Are there any functions that are safe to fire into the crowd?

Do I really have to pay around £300 to get the hardware and software for the ILDA to work?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

Thanks, Deekay

[Corabar Entertainment]

Hi there.

We've got some very knowledgeable people on here, and I'm sure some on them will be along soon. In the mean time, please have a read here:-

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I look forward to reading more about you ('cos I'm nosey! )

[chrisj]

Hi Deekay, welcome here. We all help each other as much as possible on ere.

If this is your laser http://www.kam.co.uk/index.php?actio...product_id=462 then in Specifications it says 3B. These are powerful lasers that can burn the retina in the eyes without the person realising it.

Wikipedia says http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_safety and if you read lower down the page

Class 3B
LASER RADIATION
AVOID EXPOSURE TO BEAM
CLASS 3B LASER PRODUCT

A Class 3B laser is hazardous if the eye is exposed directly, but diffuse reflections such as those from paper or other matte surfaces are not harmful. The AEL for continuous lasers in the wavelength range from 315 nm to far infrared is 0.5 W. For pulsed lasers between 400 and 700 nm, the AEL is 30 mW. Other limits apply to other wavelengths and to ultrashort pulsed lasers. Protective eyewear is typically required where direct viewing of a class 3B laser beam may occur. Class-3B lasers must be equipped with a key switch and a safety interlock. Class 3B lasers are used inside CD and DVD writers, although the writer unit itself is class 1 because the laser light cannot leave the unit.

I use a 3B UK Laser Rainbow Vision and it is pointed so that the beams are above head height.

http://www.terralec.co.uk/_client00-...ety_manual.pdf also reference 3B Lasers

[Chris1984]

in a nut shell you shouldn't be pointing lasers into the crowd in the uk full stop.

diffraction is allowed in many places now but you should still be able to prove it is well below mpe with a meter and know how to do this. with meters costs thousands it is uneconomical for djs to buy them.
then there are the other aspects needed to make it safe including e-stop masking and having a good understanding of show laser safety.

the fact is this is a very specialist line of work and many people (retailers especially) dont have a clue about laser safety and a quality product.

on friday last week i was part of the team who were the first ever people to use diffracted laser in earls court and to do this took alot of of hard work and hours of metering with an independent laser inspector giving the venue a report wich there health and safety guy agreed to and let us do it on the grounds that the independent inspector would watch the show with his hand on the e-sop and would kill all laser out put from all heads if he thought it wasnt right.

we are suffering with people buy cheap lasers and then punting laser show which arnt up to scratch and dangerous.
its not just the light you can see either lots of cheap lasers output non visible radiated light that can cause issues.

crowd scanning is safe if done correctly like most things lasers are safe in the right hands - unfortunately theres lots of wrong hands out there.
the sooner people stop pointing laser into crowds the better - people bang on about how they have pli and pat and prdub and all other sorts of things then have a picture of a cheap laser scanning the crowd next to it on their website - its unprofessional and dangerous.

rant over.

its an easy thing to do - juist keep lasers above head hight! and dont buy them form the laser pirates who have a whole world of laser :-) there kit is not built well and is cheap for a reason.....

[deekay01]

Thanks very much for all of your responses, you have pretty much outlined what I have already read and thought but as a novice user I was obviously quite naive to the situation and went and purchased a Kam Laserscan 1000 3D without really thinking about the safety issues involved.

Chris - You say that crowd scanning can be safe, I take it you still mean that it needs to be properly tested before you could do this?

So overall for anyone who is reading, what should I do with this laser if I have no experience with lasers? Just keep it above peoples heads and never fire it into the crowds or sell it pretty much. Learning about the safety side of things doesn't seem like the route I want to be going down.

Also no-one really mentioned about the tape part? I presume I would also need a heat resistant tape or something similar to stop it from burning away?

Thanks, Deekay

[Chris1984]

crowd scanning isn't aloud in the uk so unless your using your laser in countries that do allow it - which i wouldn't as it dosnt have an e-stop then i would just keep it above head hight.

i mentioned masking - i either use cinefoil from rosco or a cnefoil type tape - im currently on tour and have it on 21watt show lasers.

[musicologydisco]

Where does it say crowd scanning isn't allowed in the UK?

[Chris1984]

im pretty sure its in the optical radiation at work act and hsg95. also all health and safety laser training i have done as a professorial show laser operator.

[musicologydisco]

I've found this site http://www.lasershowsafety.org/faq.htm
From which I have lifted these quotes..

18. What does the term audience scanning mean?
It is when a laser effect is directed into the audience, normally to create a tunnel or sheets of light that look like 3D objects that the crowd can touch.
19. Is it legal to audience scanning?
There is no law that specifically states that it is illegal to audience scan. But if you do scan laser effects into the audience, you need to be certain that the MPE is not being exceeded. If the MPE is exceeded there is a risk of members of the public sustaining eye injuries caused by the laser - which could lead to all sorts of consequences.
20. Are some effects more suited to audience scanning than others?
Yes, effects that include stationary or slow moving beams should be avoided at all times. If you can see the beam moving through the path it is taking, it is almost certainly too dangerous to project into the audience. You should also avoid projecting effects that contain hot spots or dwell points in them. That is where extra points are put into certain parts of the effect to help define a sharp corner etc. The energy present on these types of effect is not evenly dispersed and the hot spots may be hazardous. Smooth flowing effects such as a circular tunnel are safer, because they maintain a more constant speed. Additionally of you keep the whole effect panning over the audience, it helps to reduce the amount of time the laser beam is in any one persons eyes.

I'm sure I've seen the same or similar info on the ILDA site but can't locate it at the moment.

In short, audience scanning is NOT illegal in this country.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

So this website you are linking to is an official one is it or is it just information someone has put up?