tieredOriginally Posted by DazzyD
I wouldn't cry over it! It's only business!!
tieredI wouldn't cry over it! It's only business!!
I had something like this happen when I first started out.
On that occasion I refunded the full amount minus the booking fee / non-refundable desposit.
The customer booked me a couple of years later.
It was just a case of them not being able to afford everything at the time due to redundancy so I was told.
I know this is pretty done and dusted, but yes, I think your clause about keeping all the money if they pay it is likely to be classed as an unfair contract term. It's a PITA, but you agreed to the change of date(s) which, in effect, makes the contract read as if the new date was originally written therein. You can only keep what you are entitled to at this stage of any booking (which, for most of us, our contracts would specify loss of deposit plus fees)AAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Its not a deposit as you have to pay a deposit back (unless stated as non refundable or on the agreement they have signed).
http://www.photography-forum.org/sho...s-Booking-Fees
Funny you should comment on this, Angela, today of all days!
I've been wondering why people on here use the phrase "non-refundable booking fee" instead of simply "deposit" for some time as the reasoning didn't quite make sense to me. The comments, like Toby had said, that it's because a deposit is returnable but a NRBF is not seem to have been the norm. But, today, I've been reading an article on such matters by a Consumer Rights Writer and Legal Advisor in such matters. Basically, a "deposit" is generally non-refundable for the following reason. When a consumer (anyone who buys goods or services - can be a personal transaction or a business one) pays a deposit to a vendor (a seller/provider of goods and/or services) they are entering in to an agreement to buy the full service or product from the vendor. Therefore, a contract is formed. If the consumer decides to not go through with that agreement to buy the full product/service then the vendor is entitled to retain the deposit, as compensation, due to the consumer breaking the terms of the contract (ie - to pay for the full service or product). The vendor may even be able to claim more than the deposit if the cancellation is at short notice meaning that they would be unlikely to resell the product or service in the same timescale or if they have incurred costs in maintaining their side of the agreement before the agreement was cancelled (this doesn't have to be cancelled at short notice). This gives them a "justifiable claim for loss of profit".
So, given this information, there is no reason at all why we shouldn't use the term "deposit" in our agreements. As such, I will be changing the wording in my T&Cs as people have often asked "What's a non-returnable booking fee?" as it's not a term they are familiar with (even though it's pretty self-explanatory!). I think going back to using the phrase "deposit" and including a paragraph that "deposits are non-returnable" is the way forward for me to avoid this confusion.
Just thought I'd point this out!
Dazzy D
Lightning Disco & Entertainment
Born to make you party!
I am going to refund her what's left after the booking fee, admin fee and PayPal charges have been deducted.
As I said, her original booking was for June this year, which she signed a contract for. She then asked me to change this to 2014 as they had changed their date. Then, in January, she came back saying could she change the date again, as they'd moved the date to 2015!
So i've issued 3 contracts, but only had one booking fee, as I probably unwisely said i'd move the date for free... providing the booking was still going to go ahead.
So, would I be wrong in deducting 2 further booking fees from the amount to be refunded now the booking is not going ahead???
Yes you would....
Yup.
As you've already said - you changed the booking date without charging another fee ergo you've essentially refused a booking fee for that one - you can't retroactively charge for that as the new contracts have been entered into and thus the final balance is seperate.
You COULD take whatever you want from them but in the age of Facebook, Twitter and indeed forums like these - do you want SC to be known to engage in questionable business practices?
You do them a turn (let's be fair a lot of clients would demand everything back, they're being quite fair even suggesting you take an admin fee.) and you could get business from them or their guests down the line since you'll have helped them out.
If you rip them off (which let's be honest, that's what you would be doing if you kept their money or took an inordinate amount for sending out some contracts for gigs way down the line - remeber you'd have no chance of claiming the full amount for a gig in 2015 that got cancelled just now) it'll only come back to bite you some way or other.
Chalk it up to experience, take the cash + paypal fees + a sensible admin fee and make sure you don't make the same mistake next time.
OK I now see that the 2nd deposit was only if they changed the date again.
They now have it in writing that you only charged a single deposit so any attempt to add further deposits on now would really open you up to them hammering you.
£100 + admin fee for drawing up a few contracts and sending some e-mails isn't a bad shift however you cut it.
What Angela is saying is that a 'deposit' can be called anything - it depends how it is defined in your T&Cs. It could be called a pink elephant''s armpit as long as it is defined properly.Funny you should comment on this, Angela, today of all days!
I've been wondering why people on here use the phrase "non-refundable booking fee" instead of simply "deposit" for some time as the reasoning didn't quite make sense to me. The comments, like Toby had said, that it's because a deposit is returnable but a NRBF is not seem to have been the norm. But, today, I've been reading an article on such matters by a Consumer Rights Writer and Legal Advisor in such matters. Basically, a "deposit" is generally non-refundable for the following reason. When a consumer (anyone who buys goods or services - can be a personal transaction or a business one) pays a deposit to a vendor (a seller/provider of goods and/or services) they are entering in to an agreement to buy the full service or product from the vendor. Therefore, a contract is formed. If the consumer decides to not go through with that agreement to buy the full product/service then the vendor is entitled to retain the deposit, as compensation, due to the consumer breaking the terms of the contract (ie - to pay for the full service or product). The vendor may even be able to claim more than the deposit if the cancellation is at short notice meaning that they would be unlikely to resell the product or service in the same timescale or if they have incurred costs in maintaining their side of the agreement before the agreement was cancelled (this doesn't have to be cancelled at short notice). This gives them a "justifiable claim for loss of profit".
So, given this information, there is no reason at all why we shouldn't use the term "deposit" in our agreements. As such, I will be changing the wording in my T&Cs as people have often asked "What's a non-returnable booking fee?" as it's not a term they are familiar with (even though it's pretty self-explanatory!). I think going back to using the phrase "deposit" and including a paragraph that "deposits are non-returnable" is the way forward for me to avoid this confusion.
Just thought I'd point this out!
There's no way I'd give let them have that back....
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