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Thread: PAT Testing failures

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAVESOUNDS SERVICES View Post
    JUST LOOKED TOO RCF speakers aint class2 they are 3 wire metal bonded to earth - CLASS 1
    That'd explain it, the limits are a lot higher for Class I kit (as you've said). Where's the earth on the RCF's though?? The cabs are plastic and there's very little metal exposed - is this where scratching the paint off screw heads comes in?

    Quote Originally Posted by DAVESOUNDS SERVICES View Post
    Better ask for a refund and find a better tester . Sorry i dont cover your area,
    I'm sorry you don't cover my area too.

    On the plus side, the guy forgot to ask for any money so it's not like I've paid him for anything yet

    Julian
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  2. #12
    Dinosaur Excalibur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corabar Steve View Post
    What tester do you use Dave?
    From memory,in case Dave isn't here soon, something looking a couple of grades up from the one in question, and one the size of a small weekend case.

    I think that the main point here is that it's not what you've got, it's the way you use it. Ooer missus!
    Excalibur. Older than the average DJ.

    www.excaliburmobiledisco.co.uk

  3. #13
    Corabar Steve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
    I think that the main point here is that it's not what you've got, it's the way you use it. Ooer missus!
    Not at al. Some testers perform the test concerned first & will pop an instant fail up & there's nothing you can do about it.
    Steve Mad, bad & dangerous to know www.corabar.co.uk
    Better to study for one hour with the wise, than to drink wine with the foolish.
    The opinions of Corabar Steve are not necessarily those of Corabar Entertainment, or any of its subsidiaries

  4. #14
    Paul James Promotions's Avatar
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    I must say it does seem strange that four items have failed during your testing. I have been PAT testing occasionally for a few years and not once have I had a failure on that particular test.

    Quote Originally Posted by Corabar Entertainment View Post
    I may be talking complete, total and utter rubbish here, as I do not profess to know anything whatsoever about the subject matter, but I do know that Steve often has problems getting a decent connection for the earth tests - often because the screws are painted - meaning that it gives a false 'fail' report.
    Hi Angela, this is a different test, the "Earth Bond" test where you will encounter this problem. In particular I find flat screen monitors a real pain to get a good earthing connection.

    Jamie

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul James Promotions View Post
    I must say it does seem strange that four items have failed during your testing. I have been PAT testing occasionally for a few years and not once have I had a failure on that particular test.
    Dave has hit the nail on the head - the equipment which failed should have been tested as Class 1 earthed equipment, not Class II insulated. The limits for leakage are much higher for Class I equipment so all the items will pass.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul James Promotions View Post
    Hi Angela, this is a different test, the "Earth Bond" test where you will encounter this problem. In particular I find flat screen monitors a real pain to get a good earthing connection.
    Bearing in mind the above (the items should have gone through a Class I test) what Angela said is now relevant.

    I've got the guy coming back tomorrow to re-test the failed items as Class I - so now all I've got to do is try and find a good earth on a fully insulated plastic cab!!!

    Thanks everyone for their input.

    Julian
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  6. #16
    DAVESOUNDS SERVICES's Avatar
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    Seaward 2000 I
    Ethos 9300 ( actually is a Clone of Seaward Europa Plus!)
    and a Made in york Tele Products PAT IT.
    also have a seaward PAC 500 Plus in a drawer not calibrated at Lock up
    got a crappy Martindale "Easypat 1600" there to that expired 30 seconds after
    its 2 year warranty ran out.
    Do you need a machine???i could get the PAC 500 calibrated for you?
    think ive a spare PAT it too there lifetime warranty!
    Name:  PAT-IT Small.jpg
Views: 424
Size:  13.2 KB

    Cheers

    If he is struggling with any item simply plug in either an XLR and get the earth off the metal body,Or a metal jack plug and do the same.
    Sometines the XLR release tabs are easy to use .Failing that as with most "Imported" lights take out a screw and use a small screwdriver
    connected to the earth test lead
    If your PAT Tester is competant i dont think i should need to be telling him that .
    any probs ring me
    Cheers

    DAVESOUNDS
    Last edited by Excalibur; 26-09-2013 at 09:43 PM. Reason: Merged posts
    DAVESOUNDS DISCO PUBLIC ADDRESS & PAT TESTING SERVICES BASED IN WAKEFIELD

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  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAVESOUNDS SERVICES View Post
    Do you need a machine???i could get the PAC 500 calibrated for you?
    Tempting as that is, it's finding the time to do the C&G course again (and get testing liability insurance) which is the problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by DAVESOUNDS SERVICES View Post
    If he is struggling with any item simply plug in either an XLR and get the earth off the metal body,Or a metal jack plug and do the same.
    Good idea

    Quote Originally Posted by DAVESOUNDS SERVICES View Post
    If your PAT Tester is competant i dont think i should need to be telling him that
    I don't think he's used to doing Disco kit, I think he's done more industrial/office kit in the past and he hasn't had the PAT tester for very long.

    Quote Originally Posted by DAVESOUNDS SERVICES View Post
    any probs ring me
    I might be doing that yet - thanks for your help Dave.

    Julian
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  8. #18
    Corabar Steve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAVESOUNDS SERVICES View Post
    Seaward 2000 I
    Ethos 9300 ( actually is a Clone of Seaward Europa Plus!)
    and a Made in york Tele Products PAT IT.
    also have a seaward PAC 500 Plus in a drawer not calibrated at Lock up
    got a crappy Martindale "Easypat 1600" there to that expired 30 seconds after
    its 2 year warranty ran out.
    Do you need a machine???i could get the PAC 500 calibrated for you?
    think ive a spare PAT it too there lifetime warranty!
    Name:  PAT-IT Small.jpg
Views: 424
Size:  13.2 KB
    No, I've got a perfectly good Europa Plus thanks.

    I was wondering though if the type of tester might affect the person doing the testing's ability to interpret the results. Although it would seem that the person concerned's biggest problem is the inability to differentiate between Class 1 & Class 2 appliances.
    Steve Mad, bad & dangerous to know www.corabar.co.uk
    Better to study for one hour with the wise, than to drink wine with the foolish.
    The opinions of Corabar Steve are not necessarily those of Corabar Entertainment, or any of its subsidiaries

  9. #19

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    Quick update on this. All three items re-tested as Class I and the projector and Mackie mixer passed without issue. The RCF's passed on the leakage, but failed on earth continuity. The best reading we could get by connecting to a sleeve on an XLR connector or Jack body was 3.47ohms. He's passed them anyway as there's an earth there and it's not like they have a lot of exposed metalwork.

    He's also booked me for his wedding on a Monday night (!) in November.

    Julian
    http://www.bristoldiscohire.co.uk - Quality Disco and Equipment hire for Bristol & Bath
    Weddings, Birthday Parties, Kids Parties, School Disco's and more
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  10. #20

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    Have you seen the new document from HSE about Maintaining portable electrical equipment. You can download it free from here

    http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/books/hs...cr=27-Sep-2013

    This does stop a lot of the false claims being made by people doing PAT testing. For example leads for class 2 equipment only need visual inspection which everyone should be trained to do every time the equipment is used.

    It is up to you or the duty holder to determine the frequency of tests not the person doing the actaul PAT testing, so this automatic 12 month rule is rubish. For some equipment a 2 year test plan is sensible for for something like the extension leads that are prone to a lot of damage then 6 monthly tests would be more suited.


    The second misconcpetion on class one equipment is that you have to do a bond test and find a piece of metal to check connectivity. That is why the leakage test was introduced. No tester should be damaging equipment by scapping off paint to get the test done. Often it is jsut the case that the person does not know how to use the equipment.

    For those of you who dryhire equipment recommends a visual and combined test before every hire.

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