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I think wires are getting crossed.
is she a scumbag? If she's intentionally and fraudulently said a cheque has been stolen in order to have it bounce then yes. I'm sure this would be a legal matter too. Has she booked someone knowing that she was going to withhold payment? Yes ergo she is a scumbag.
Does she deserve to be taught a lesson for this? In my opinion yes, if that means getting dragged through small claims and having to pay up plus expenses then so be it.
That's the extent of what I mean by hammering her. Any correspondance should rightly so be kept formal and legally minded or else it has the potential to end badly. I've had to do something similar before though not for the business and the best way to deal with it is keep it to the point and not let any emotion or desire to take pot shots at them come into things.
I'm wondering if the wording of "in my opinion" has any bearing on whether it would be considered libel (not that I think this person will have the IQ points to rub together and think of this as a potential get out) as according to her bank, the cheque she handed out was reported stolen so if this is the case, there's no other possible reason for it other than she intentionally and fruadulently did this to halt the payment.
Either way, if there's anything we can learn from this one: GET PAID WELL IN ADVANCE OF THE EVENT!!!
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Originally Posted by
Jim - Scotland's Party DJ
I think wires are getting crossed.
is she a scumbag? If she's intentionally and fraudulently said a cheque has been stolen in order to have it bounce then yes. I'm sure this would be a legal matter too. Has she booked someone knowing that she was going to withhold payment? Yes ergo she is a scumbag.
Does she deserve to be taught a lesson for this? In my opinion yes, if that means getting dragged through small claims and having to pay up plus expenses then so be it.
That's the extent of what I mean by hammering her. Any correspondance should rightly so be kept formal and legally minded or else it has the potential to end badly. I've had to do something similar before though not for the business and the best way to deal with it is keep it to the point and not let any emotion or desire to take pot shots at them come into things.
I'm wondering if the wording of "in my opinion" has any bearing on whether it would be considered libel (not that I think this person will have the IQ points to rub together and think of this as a potential get out) as according to her bank, the cheque she handed out was reported stolen so if this is the case, there's no other possible reason for it other than she intentionally and fruadulently did this to halt the payment.
Either way, if there's anything we can learn from this one: GET PAID WELL IN ADVANCE OF THE EVENT!!!
That's a good post. Especially the last line - very good advice! But, some people still do take payment at the event and I've done that before also! Also, thanks for clarifying yourself. To be fair, "hammer her and teach her a lesson" really doesn't sound good especially on a public forum. Which is why I posted as I did to give you the chance to explain it better!
What I will do is explain where I see the whole fraud thing from a legal point of view. I have to stress that I'm not a qualified legal professional but I do have a good understanding of legal matters and I'm quite boring and sad in that I like to research legal cases and case law. The way I do my day job changes regularly because of legal rulings and case law (and it's changed again due to a ruling on a loophole in the so-called "Bedroom Tax"!) and I've been known to read up on cases and appeals during my spare time. But, in Ralph's case, this is how I see it. In law, things are rarely ever clear cut. For it to be fraud, a judge has to rule that the client had the intention of cancelling the cheque when it was presented to Ralph. She could argue that her intention, at that time, was to pay him but she had since had complaints from other attendee's at the party and felt her only method of redress was to withdraw payment. How she stopped the cheque is pretty much irrelevant as, like I've said, there are financial implications for doing so and she could argue she used the method she did to save her the cost which, in hindsight, wasn't the best option. A judge is highly likely to accept that she made an error of judgement on this but that doesn't mean it was fraud as it doesn't prove the intention was there to cancel the cheque from the outset. As someone said earlier, it's likely that the police wouldn't take any action on a fraud allegation like this not because that they don't think it's fraud but the "burdon of proof" is on them and the CPS would probably throw the case out before court as it would be extremely difficult to prove the intention to cancel the cheque was there at the time the cheque was presented to Ralph. That said, it should still be reported to the police because, if the woman does this on a regular basis, the police will already have a file on her which makes proving fraud a lot easier.
At the end of the day, all Ralph wants is to get paid, right? That would be the perfect outcome. Payment is received, cleared then the case is closed. I would urge anyone who needs to use debt-collection measures to ask themselves could they contact the client, either in a letter or by phone, in a calm and professional manner without getting personal or using any allegations other than simply "you owe me money". If they can, do it - that's the cheap way. It's quite easy, really. But, if you can't, then use one of the myriad of services that will do this for you. Some issue letters or make phone calls to the debtor for free and maybe take a % of the debt. At least that way you'll get something back although it might not be the full 100%.
Dazzy D
Lightning Disco & Entertainment
Born to make you party!
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Good luck - don't let them get away with it!
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Conversely I have just received a cheque from a venue for an Xmas party night which they had paid me for in advance! They were amazed and impressed by my honesty and their ineptitude when I rang and told them.
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Originally Posted by
theoloyla
Conversely I have just received a cheque from a venue for an Xmas party night which they had paid me for in advance! They were amazed and impressed by my honesty and their ineptitude when I rang and told them.
Honesty is always the best policy in this game.
Through the DJing I know one of the event co-ordinators from a big fancy hotel in town quite well and we get on good. Sometimes me and the missus like nipping into their cocktail bar for a few drinks before heading home on a night out.
The last time we were in the co-ordinator was helping the cocktail staff and when we asked for the bill he charged us for 2 drinks, we'd had 8, it's about £7 a drink, you do the maths.
I wasn't sure wether he was doing us a turn or had made a mistake so when he came over to take the bill I told him he'd not charged us the full amount and he was really appreciative as someone had made a mistake with the tab.
The upshot - I came away looking really good and honest (and dare I say with a reasonable chance he'll do me a favour with brides looking for a DJ) whereas if I'd stiffed them for £40 or whatever it was, my name would have been dirt in that place.
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Originally Posted by
theoloyla
Conversely I have just received a cheque from a venue for an Xmas party night which they had paid me for in advance! They were amazed and impressed by my honesty and their ineptitude when I rang and told them.
Well done for that. lots of people would cash it and claim they got it mixed up.
That will pay dividends to you through trust and bookings.
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Originally Posted by
theoloyla
Conversely I have just received a cheque from a venue for an Xmas party night which they had paid me for in advance! They were amazed and impressed by my honesty and their ineptitude when I rang and told them.
Originally Posted by
Jim - Scotland's Party DJ
Honesty is always the best policy in this game.
Through the DJing I know one of the event co-ordinators from a big fancy hotel in town quite well and we get on good. Sometimes me and the missus like nipping into their cocktail bar for a few drinks before heading home on a night out.
The last time we were in the co-ordinator was helping the cocktail staff and when we asked for the bill he charged us for 2 drinks, we'd had 8, it's about £7 a drink, you do the maths.
I wasn't sure wether he was doing us a turn or had made a mistake so when he came over to take the bill I told him he'd not charged us the full amount and he was really appreciative as someone had made a mistake with the tab.
The upshot - I came away looking really good and honest (and dare I say with a reasonable chance he'll do me a favour with brides looking for a DJ) whereas if I'd stiffed them for £40 or whatever it was, my name would have been dirt in that place.
Good work guys! Honesty always pays dividends in the end.
So still no reqponse from the client. Email Sent. Recorded Letter Sent (but they were out and not collected from sorting office). If client doesn't pick up today not sure if I should send another letter by Special, and a separate one by normal mail (just to ensure she does get a letter), or whether this would be classed as harassment?
Either way its a learning curve! Although I have to say that I not angry and letting personal feelings get involved, I just think that it is bang out of order to be stitched up like this, and don't want her to think that she can get away with it!
My guess is that she will wait for the official court letter come through and then offer to pay and settle "out of court". At which point I will settle for £150 plus an extra £50 for paid court fees and inconvenience.
My biggest worry is that I run my business from my parents house (my landlord won't allow me to run a business from home), and that she will turn up on their doorstep, possible with "the boys"
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Disco Dude!
Didn't you say this was for a "friend of a friend"?
I'd of been tempted in a passive aggressive manner to let the mutual friend know what's happened (depending on your relationship with said friend).
Fingers crossed for getting it resolved.
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I would send another letter in a couple of days if that recorded one does not get picked up, just get a certificate of posting because the postman will just put it through their letter box and you will have proof that you posted it , if you send by special it will cost must more money and they could still refuse to accept it from the postman,
If you want you could put ( without prejudice ) on the second letter then they would not be able to use it against you in anyway in court , sometimes a part of a letter can be misquoted and twisted if the whole of the letter is not read.
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I assume you sent a copy by the same means to yourself at the same time, along with terms of interest charged for delay?
That proves postage (with the receipt for both on the same date). You could also get a witness and take photos but thats a bit OTT.
That way you can prove it was sent.
I would then leave it a month and send another one.
Leave it a further month - send another one.
The legal action on the third month.
The longer you leave it the more interest you can charge for "admin" etc. plus the legal fees.
They will cave after the second one she they know that you are not giving up.
Just make things much less personal as per my previous posts.
Thats just my opinion.
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