Few DMX questions....

[Chris1984]

Thanks. How do these softwares connect and control the lasers if they don't use DMX? My two quad channel lasers (red-green-blue-yellow) only have DMX connectors on them. I use them master-slave normally.

Rich

lasers are controlled via an ILDA 25way connector which offers control of the laser systems inside.
It sounds like you have 'disco' lasers which aren't designed to be controlled and react to the audio.
These should also not be used for audience exposure.

[dicky]

@Chris1984
No they don't have 25way connectors, only DMX

Regards 'used for audience exposure' no one so far has ever had any complaint or issue with being 'exposed' to them so if anyone did they would be a minority of like a 1 in several 1000 or so?

I have two of these lasers (and thinking of getting two more as they are one of the most potent lighting effects I have) and they are 4 channel (R-Y-G-B) and 760mW almost certainly same as these https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATHAchdshJw though I didn't confirm that these are exactly the same.

Although they don't have that connector you mention I do think it would still be possible to control them with DMX in the way I had in mind but as I have not attempted that yet I have to accept you are probably right and it can not be done as you clearly have more experience of this sort of programming than I do (currently none but eager to learn). What is likely to be the issue here - not enough bandwidth on the DMX serial comms to send the required DMX commands quick enough for the lasers to keep up with my software?

Still I am always up for a challenge so who knows what could be achieved unless I try it if no one else already has.

@all who advised
Been looking into the DMX software more tonight and I am pretty much decded on the ADJ MyDMX2 software purely just for it's ease of use..... the only thing that concerns me now is this lack of 'layering' ability I would get with Chamsys MagiQ.. In real terms what difference would that mean to me, and are there any work-a-rounds for situations I am likely to encounter?

Also one other thing - all my lights are pretty much up-to-date LED based. The big excepton being the TAS Mini UltraScans MSD 200's which I am impressed with the brightness compared to any of my other lighting but they are basically 'retro' if not plain vintage.

Do either of these softwares (MyDMX, MagiQ) have support these scanners directly? If not how difficult/easy is it for me to get round that. I believe Coemar and/or ClayPaky supported, emulated or copied these scanners a later date - does that help me controling them via either of htese software packages?

Cheers
Rich

[Chris1984]

@Chris1984
No they don't have 25way connectors, only DMX

Regards 'used for audience exposure' no one so far has ever had any complaint or issue with being 'exposed' to them so if anyone did they would be a minority of like a 1 in several 1000 or so?

I have two of these lasers (and thinking of getting two more as they are one of the most potent lighting effects I have) and they are 4 channel (R-Y-G-B) and 760mW almost certainly same as these https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATHAchdshJw though I didn't confirm that these are exactly the same.

This is going to open the audience scanning can of worms that is quite simple.
Unless you can prove you below MPE and have suitable safety systems in place - IE an E-stop shutdown, safety signs, risk assessment detailing the specifics of the laser and exposure levels etc, physical masking and someone as a dedicated LSO then you shouldn't be scanning the audience, full stop.
This is for as much your own safety/risk as well as others.
This is even more relevant to cheap lasers as they don't contain good optics or diodes.

Although they don't have that connector you mention I do think it would still be possible to control them with DMX in the way I had in mind but as I have not attempted that yet I have to accept you are probably right and it can not be done as you clearly have more experience of this sort of programming than I do (currently none but eager to learn). What is likely to be the issue here - not enough bandwidth on the DMX serial comms to send the required DMX commands quick enough for the lasers to keep up with my software?

Yes DMX can control certain aspects of the unit but what it dosnt do is give complete control or the control required to safely scan the audience. DMX is a one way communication protocol so does not contain the feedback needed.

@all who advised
Been looking into the DMX software more tonight and I am pretty much decded on the ADJ MyDMX2 software purely just for it's ease of use..... the only thing that concerns me now is this lack of 'layering' ability I would get with Chamsys MagiQ.. In real terms what difference would that mean to me, and are there any work-a-rounds for situations I am likely to encounter?

When you say layering ability what do you mean?

Also one other thing - all my lights are pretty much up-to-date LED based. The big excepton being the TAS Mini UltraScans MSD 200's which I am impressed with the brightness compared to any of my other lighting but they are basically 'retro' if not plain vintage.

Do either of these softwares (MyDMX, MagiQ) have support these scanners directly? If not how difficult/easy is it for me to get round that. I believe Coemar and/or ClayPaky supported, emulated or copied these scanners a later date - does that help me controling them via either of htese software packages?

Cheers
Rich

I have just looked in chamsys and can confirm there is a profile already there for these units, its under Comar and contains 8channels - this can be edited if not right for your units or simply make a new one - if you send the dmx data over i can make you one quick enough.

[ianforest]

Adding a fixture to any DMX software isn't difficult. As long as you have a list of the channel assignments and the values for different things such as gobo and colour, etc. then you should be good to go. The TAS Mini Ultrascans are probably 6 or 8 channel..maybe more.

@Chris...layering is just the ability to split a "scene" into different elements for example you could just specify a movement say figure of 8...and another for example, a circle. Then you would have a colour element and then a gobo element. In his DMX app he could then select the colour pink, then a star, then the movement...and resulting effect would be a pink star circling around in a figure of 8. It just saves having hundreds of scenes for all the different permutations of movement, colour and gobo. Not sure if "layering" is the technical buzz word but it works for me.

[dicky]

Thanks Chris for the more detailed reply. Is it a case then that most of these disco lasers being sold in disco shops and on ebay, amazon etc are actually not legal to use? That suprises me such a situation exists normally businesses like Ebay are the opposite and often restrict you from selling some items that are actually legal to sell!

I don't actually use mine for audience scanning, I tend to use them over the audience heads so they are illuminating the back wall and ceiling. Does that make a difference.

What I was referring to by 'layering', is the comments ianforest made earlier on this thread

Whilst MyDMX 2.0 is great it doesn't allow "layering" of commands. For example when you are putting your DMX values together they must take into account X/Y, Gobo, Colour and Lamp State. The next command the same and you set the fade time between them.

With Avolites and Chamsys you can have a set of defined "movements" and then a set of defined "colours" and a set of defined "gobo's". You then just need to make 3 selections...a movement, a colour and a gobo. Don't like the gobo, just choose another and then maybe a different colour...

Thanks for the info on profiles for these TAS mini Ultrascans. I also read on the net these are 8 channel scanners, though using a DMX controller in manual mode I can only find 5 channels (X,Y,Colour,Gobo,Shutter) Do you know what the other three channels are? Mine seem to have 9 fixed gobos plus open but this page http://djborze.hu/hirdetes/tas-mini-...00-msd-scanner sayss they have 8 fixed gobo plus 4 rotating gobos

Rich
PS - just opened one up to have a look. It does indeed have 9 fixed gobos plus open, there is no mechanism that I can see which would enable it to rotate gobos. Also the dichroic glass on the colour wheel and in particular the metal reflector around the MSD bulb would benifit from a serious clean up and polish. The reflector is not part of the bulb. Is there any recommended cleaning solution?

[dicky]

Sorry guys - please forgive me but I have more DMX questions.....

I've watched through a few MyDMX2.0 tutorials now and it seems much easier and intuitive to use than the MagiQ software

What I can't figure (yet) is how MyDMX2.0 can be pre-programmed to trigger certain events (scenes) at fixed points in a song.... for example if I wanted to create a scene where strobing that matches the BPM as it gets gets faster in a particular song, increasing in rate until a blackout at the crescendo of the beats, then changes to another elighting ffect on the drop

So effectively I would want to create a scene (probably with the same name as a song) that matches the tempo changes and breaks in that song - something like the video Benny posted earlier on this thread I guess.

I hope I have described this well enough. How would I do that 'choreographed' sound/light sort of thing?

Rich

[Chris1984]

@Chris...layering is just the ability to split a "scene" into different elements for example you could just specify a movement say figure of 8...and another for example, a circle. Then you would have a colour element and then a gobo element. In his DMX app he could then select the colour pink, then a star, then the movement...and resulting effect would be a pink star circling around in a figure of 8. It just saves having hundreds of scenes for all the different permutations of movement, colour and gobo. Not sure if "layering" is the technical buzz word but it works for me.

I know exactly what you mean, exactly as I mentioned earlier using palettes to pick colour and gobo on the fly in a busking situation.

Thanks Chris for the more detailed reply. Is it a case then that most of these disco lasers being sold in disco shops and on ebay, amazon etc are actually not legal to use? That suprises me such a situation exists normally businesses like Ebay are the opposite and often restrict you from selling some items that are actually legal to sell!

I don't actually use mine for audience scanning, I tend to use them over the audience heads so they are illuminating the back wall and ceiling. Does that make a difference.

There is nothing illegal about audience exposure just safe limits and various other safety things all outlined in HSG95. Unfortunately the majority of people using lasers irresponsibly do not understand or know about the safe use of lasers or plead ignorance (or worst case try and justify it without any idea what they are talking)
Infact i have just got in for a show where the health and safety officer wouldn't allow a laser show on one stage because he didnt like the RA or the operators BS!
Good on the H&S guy!

Thanks for the info on profiles for these TAS mini Ultrascans. I also read on the net these are 8 channel scanners, though using a DMX controller in manual mode I can only find 5 channels (X,Y,Colour,Gobo,Shutter) Do you know what the other three channels are? Mine seem to have 9 fixed gobos plus open but this page http://djborze.hu/hirdetes/tas-mini-...00-msd-scanner sayss they have 8 fixed gobo plus 4 rotating gobos

The profile i mentioned has the following
1 - Pan
2 - tilt
3 - spare (not sure what this is maybe a control macro)
4- shutter
5 - gobo
6 - gobo rotate
7 - colour
8 - control (prob for a reset command or lamp on lamp off macro)

Sorry guys - please forgive me but I have more DMX questions.....

I've watched through a few MyDMX2.0 tutorials now and it seems much easier and intuitive to use than the MagiQ software

What I can't figure (yet) is how MyDMX2.0 can be pre-programmed to trigger certain events (scenes) at fixed points in a song.... for example if I wanted to create a scene where strobing that matches the BPM as it gets gets faster in a particular song, increasing in rate until a blackout at the crescendo of the beats, then changes to another elighting ffect on the drop

So effectively I would want to create a scene (probably with the same name as a song) that matches the tempo changes and breaks in that song - something like the video Benny posted earlier on this thread I guess.

I hope I have described this well enough. How would I do that 'choreographed' sound/light sort of thing?

Rich

Glad you have found software you like!
I have never used MyDMX2.0 but after using in a professional capacity many other desks to do lighting to match music there are 3 ways of doing it.

1 - create a cue stack that you set the delay, fade, wait, etc times for each cue to match the song - its a bti fo a hope for the best and not a great way of doing it as very time consuming

2 - timecode, by far the bast way of programming to music, we use this for alot of concert tours and large pyromusical shows where there is a master time source spitting out timecode to all the control systems so they all run on the same timeline.

3- manual fired cues, there are 2 ways of doing this

3.1- set a page up for your track and have all the different looks programmed to the faders/executor buttons and you manually hit each one when you want it

3.2 - saet a cue stack and hit go when you want the next cue/look, this will be the easiest one to do what you want as you can create 2 strobe cues, one for the start speed and one for the final speed then set the fade time to how ever long you want the speed increase to build and then you could set it as a follow on cue so you hit go and it start off the slow cues and auto ramps up to match the second cue. and so on

[dicky]

The profile i mentioned has the following
1 - Pan
2 - tilt
3 - spare (not sure what this is maybe a control macro)
4- shutter
5 - gobo
6 - gobo rotate
7 - colour
8 - control (prob for a reset command or lamp on lamp off macro)

My TAS Mini Ultrascans must be different, they definitely have Pan/Tilt/Colour/Gobo/Shutter on channels 1-5 and no internal hardware to rotate gobos (they have a metal gobo disc with 9 gobos plus open)

They appear to be original hardware, not modified internally as far as I can tell

They say 'tas MINI Ultra-scan MSD 200 on the side and cod:4230 which I think is a model number? If I could find the usb lead for my phone I'd upload a pic lol

Glad you have found software you like!
I have never used MyDMX2.0 but after using in a professional capacity many other desks to do lighting to match music there are 3 ways of doing it.

1 - create a cue stack that you set the delay, fade, wait, etc times for each cue to match the song - its a bti fo a hope for the best and not a great way of doing it as very time consuming

2 - timecode, by far the bast way of programming to music, we use this for alot of concert tours and large pyromusical shows where there is a master time source spitting out timecode to all the control systems so they all run on the same timeline.

3- manual fired cues, there are 2 ways of doing this

3.1- set a page up for your track and have all the different looks programmed to the faders/executor buttons and you manually hit each one when you want it

3.2 - saet a cue stack and hit go when you want the next cue/look, this will be the easiest one to do what you want as you can create 2 strobe cues, one for the start speed and one for the final speed then set the fade time to how ever long you want the speed increase to build and then you could set it as a follow on cue so you hit go and it start off the slow cues and auto ramps up to match the second cue. and so on

Yes I do like the MyDMX software so think I will go for that

Actually I have learned that the ADJ MyDMX dongle/interface is a DASlite / Sunlite SIUDI 6 rebranded as MyDMX. As such the following software would support the MyDMX interface

ADJ MyDMX2.0
Freestyler lists unnoficially supported interfaces here http://www.freestylersupport.com/wik..._dmx_interface - including myDMX supported as Sunlite
Venue Magic
DMXControl2.0
DMXControl3.0
MagicQ (Chamsys website says quote: "MagicQ software supports the Peperoni, DMX4ALL, Enttec Pro, Nicholaudie, Sunlite and Velleman interfaces on the first Universe. MagicQ software is free and can be downloaded from our web site." so I'm certain it would work with the MyDMX interface

If I bought the Velleman K8062 interface/dongle (maplins stock these at £39.99) it works with
Venue Magic
DMXControl2.0
Freestyler
MagicQ

So all in all I will go with the ADJ MyDMX (unless I change my mind by tomorrow!) as I do like the look of the ADJ software and I can only get that by buying the interface (unless I am wrong?) plus the fact the interface is apparently supported by a wider range of third party software if I find myDMX2.0 doesn't do everything I want to in future.


I'm still not sure how I actually create these Cue Stacks yet until I get chance to have a play around. I've seen some tutorials using VDJ to set cue points in a song and then send these to the DMX lighting software (either local host or across a lan) but think you can only send three cue points? Which isn't a lot of use really????

I actually use Serato - can't find definitive answer to whether there is anyway serato could do the same.

Never used any other playout software - is there one that I can set many cue points, or time stamps or whatever they would be called, within a song, and send (midi?) commands to the DMX software across a LAN?

Kinda like this: http://www.dmxcontrol.org/dmxcontrol2/features.html and look where it says 'Audioplayer'.... but that I think is a standalone music player built into DMXControl2.0 - I was thinking there should be some sort of integrated solution with the playout.

Now I looked into all this a bit more, it seems like such an obviously desirable feature (and I would think easy to implement in software) for DJ playout software to be able to synchronise a light show to songs via third party DMX software that I can't believe this isn't a standard feature, or plugin, for pretty much all of them. Can this be done ? (VDJ, Serato, Traktor, a.n.other?)

Cheers
Rich