How much am I worth? What makes me worth more?

[Excalibur]

I once had an enquiry from a wedding planner for her clients getting married at Beamish Hall. I quoted £350 The wedding planner got back to me and said thanks for the quote but my quote was half the price of the next lowest quote and that her clients thought, at that price, I wasn't what they were looking for!!!
!

I've had that. On one, I doubled my standard fee, and the reason for not booking me was: " Too cheap".


Mind you, I've lowered my price considerably, and been " Too expensive".

[Nakatomi]

Whilst I do agree that your fee has little/nothing to do with the size & quality of your lightshow, I am going to act as an advocate of the big lightshow for now.

I'd call it BIG in terms of effect & appropriateness. In the later photos the lights which look like Revos have disappeared & you've gone with lights which actually move and are very bright (i.e. they cause the room to be lit). Some might interpret 'big' as meaning 'more lights', which can have completely the wrong effect.

Cheap LED dot effects are like cheap moonflower effects were in the early 90s. A bit naff. They don't provide much light & without fog or haze, very little effect either. It's fine to have those, but not at the expense of colour washes. I've seen the difference even one LED PAR bar can make to a room (the hotel where I played last night have 2 laser clusters & 2 ADJ Revos, that's IT! What, maybe £400 worth of lights new , but completely inappropriate for weddings IMHO) - bands sometimes bring a set of LED PARs along & it makes no end of improvement to the place.

That's what seems to separate the 'big boys' from the rest from my point of view.. the photos that show more than just a few points of light. Striking light at big reflective surfaces is way more effective IMHO & you're doing that in spades. You're transforming a room, not just the area immediately in front of you (but that, IMHO is what every disco should be doing, even if they're only using PARs - not just shining dots at the crowd).

When I walk into a setup where there are podiums with LED panels atop (a rare occurrence), the first thing I do is angle the units UP at the ceiling or towards the nearest wall because at the height they're at, they're at eye level on the dancefloor. Ouch.

The liteconsole looks impressive to me because I know what it costs, but trying to see it from a punter's point of view, it doesn't look tacky like starcloth over a frame can. Starcloth is the new gold lamé curtain.

I think where moving heads are concerned, now these are in an entirely different league. This is the kind of gear people normally only see at concerts or on the telly. There's an air of 'special' about them, I reckon & this sets them apart from the usual disco lighting.

[dicky]

I did say I would post back soon as I got chance so here goes

Last night I took a very late minute booking for a wedding reception - this came in at 3pm for a party that was 30 mins drive away from me and started at 7pm

I already had a booking in for a birthday party at a local-ish pub starting at 8:30pm

With a very quick chat with my roadie-come-very-new-fellow-DJ (one trial party night offered free to a pub last week in which he played solo on his newly bulit rig for about an hour after i helped/gave confidence for the first couple of hours) we decided to go for it and split the proceeds down the middle

So he took on my £80 pub night (offered as much as a favour as anything else as the publican is one of my customers in my day business) and I took on the last minute booking because it needed a bigger rig.

Club night, large venue (350+ capacity) with about 150 in attendance

The reason I got this - a local very well established DJ who I met a couple months back had an operation on his wrist and it did not go to planned so he could not work. He had seen my setup once (I was breaking down as he was setting up for the next night) and he believed I had a rig big enough to handle the venue

Anyway upshot of all this - the fee was £200 (which is £50-£70 more than my normal charge) it went absolutely fanstastic and today when i picked the kit up the manager has asked for my number as I am, in their words 'one of the few discos we have seen who can fill the room with sound and light'

I have to agree personally I felt my rig ran superbly last night and filled the venue (the biggest i have played so far)

Reason for the post - well I have come to the realisation, what makes a £600 disco worth ore than a £150 disco? Answer - Specialisation!!

I now have a rig which can handle big venues. Whether you like powerful PA systems and lots of flashing lights and lasers is YOUR personal choice, but the point is I now believe some customers will pay GOOD money for just that. Also I also believe once you move away from the small pub/venues there there is less competition who can handle that well/properly. So it becomes a rarified market, hence bigger fees are achievable.

But to me this is just one way to big fees - same as other customers will pay GOOD money for tasteful uplighters, added value (extra offerings, chocolate fountains or whatever) the clients to pay reason is not really the important thing

Unless anyone says I am wrong I now realise the answer is..... find some niche (fantastic PA. flashy lighting, extra services etc) you can really excel in, do just that, and the big money will follow

Couple videos

myself at the large club last night (sorry the quality is e but the effect is obvious - I was proud to be on stage with 'the singing waiters' they did the first part of the night so I had chance to shot the video)

and if I can find it - my 'roadie', now DJ on his first night

Rich

me last night - love it or hate it (do let me know) but it went down a storm with the clients and even more important the venue managers http://youtu.be/EYqJdLVKoLY


My mate, roadie, and now DJ - who has a far better cam than me!!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liLGra7kvHM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVmcA3DcKKg

[ppentertainments]

I once had an enquiry from a wedding planner for her clients getting married at Beamish Hall. I quoted £350 (I couldn't do it so the plan was to take a £100 cut and pass it on for £250). The wedding planner got back to me and said thanks for the quote but my quote was half the price of the next lowest quote and that her clients thought, at that price, I wasn't what they were looking for!!!

Just goes to show. I never found out who the clients were or what their budget was. But it sounds like it could have been an amazing night for someone!

If I am correct that was from a client making ‘steps’ towards her wedding which was televised – although the DJ requested autonomity ;-)

From market research, via a third party, I am also aware you offer discounts to EVERY enquiry ?
As mentioned before – it would be nice to have an HONEST perception of the market.

[yourdj]

Well said Toby - exactly the way I'm working and what I'm aspiring to at the moment. I'm currently where you were a couple of years ago. I'm using the services of a certain Mr Pengelly at the moment, and it's a real eye-opener on all fronts, especially making you actually think about what it is you offer.

Ta having some form of real reflection is a good thing (videoing yourself, using "Dereks grooming service ®", someone at your gig, workshops etc.) really can help. I have neglected that in the last few years. Every event can improve and so does the price IMO, even if its a pound a gig. Today I did an all day and really excelled with the "being myself" ethos. Really nailed it despite forgetting the clocks changed last night (always 2 hours early anyway)

There is a pricing difference by area so that does not help, but even in crap areas there are people who have the money and will actively seek better suppliers. IMO those areas are a monopoly - its just working out what people want and how to market effectively too them. 90% of times its recommendation by the venue or other similar clients - but if someone is stuck in their ways or crap at business then they will not see that and adopt the "around here" mentality. At the end of the day if the DJ lives in a bad area and it really is that cheap then the housing costs and living cost will be the same to match, so the wage they charge should be in keeping with that, so I don't see why they should be charging £700 a gig really when the "average" is £150 - should be £300?

The average 3 bed bungalow in the new forest costs £500,000!

I think my extras are warranted really - based on the time taken to transport, set up, run or maintain? I am good at my job so the main cost is me. I am loving it at the moment really coming out of myself with the hosting. Taken years to get there mind you, with lots of videos and self crisis's from all the cringing looking at my crapness!

As usual this is all very tongue in cheek.

[Benny Smyth]

The liteconsole looks impressive to me because I know what it costs, but trying to see it from a punter's point of view, it doesn't look tacky like starcloth over a frame can. Starcloth is the new gold lamé curtain.

I think where moving heads are concerned, now these are in an entirely different league. This is the kind of gear people normally only see at concerts or on the telly. There's an air of 'special' about them, I reckon & this sets them apart from the usual disco lighting.

The LiteConsole is the piece of kit that gets most comments. I've said it before that I've spent lots on everything around it, but the LC gets noticed most. Not gonna complain though - great for working on, easy to setup and a lovely branding opportunity.

With regards to moving heads, that is exactly how I describe it to clients. It is essentially the same technology that you see on 'Strictly Britains Got X Factor Whilst Singing On Ice With The Idol Stars Academy' (at least, I think that's what the show is called!). Once you decribe it like that, they can see it in their heads.

[Andy P]

I love the lite console and as soon as cash permits am getting one.

Dicky that's some serious amount of lights - if you ever do a gig with a glass roof I can see helicopters landing.

Personally I couldn't afford to pay £300 for a DJ to come to my party. When you add in food and invites and hall hire etc a birthday party would be heading over £600 and for me (a tight wad) that is ludicrous .

So who is going to service the cheap skates like me. Perhaps this is why I dont charge more - empathy for people like me who live on a budget

[Imagine]

Personally I couldn't afford to pay £300 for a DJ to come to my party. When you add in food and invites and hall hire etc a birthday party would be heading over £600 and for me (a tight wad) that is ludicrous .

So who is going to service the cheap skates like me. Perhaps this is why I dont charge more - empathy for people like me who live on a budget

Different markets for different DJ's (as I'm finding out rapidly)

Yes, there are those who will only pay minimum rate for a DJ (after all, we only press buttons and play music, don't we ). I myself am I tight wad and when I look at the amount of money spent on the food, the venue etc., even for some of the kids parties I do I stand and think....why?????

Yes, there are those who will never pay more than £150 for their DJ, and there's DJ's out there who are more than prepared to take on those gigs and service them in a professional way.

There's also those out there who will pay a LOT more than that (my average evening fee at the moment is between £250 and £300 depending on what it is and how far I'm travelling etc.), and I know I'll eventually get more once I've finished working on a couple of other things. My books are at 50% capacity this year and yet I've already beaten last year's turnover - mainly because I've increased my prices significantly, but also because I've now got the confidence to say "well Mr Client.....that's what I charge because........."

Do you offer anything other than just flashing lights and music? (telly's for slideshows? adult (not what you're thinking) games?, playlist management? Mic's for speeches?).

Without waving my gentlemen vegetables around...I'm getting the same price for a two hour kids party at the moment as you're getting for an entire evening by the sound of it (I'm around £75 an hour for kids)....and I'm getting silly numbers of bookings. The reason, the perceived value I offer. Most of the locals that do kids parties round here turn up, play music and go home again. I don't. I interact with them and entertain them (things like games, silly dances, a bit of well aimed humour, snow - it's pretty much the full on Red-Coat experience). Yes it costs me a lot of energy, about £3.50 of snow fluid and around £5 in bags of Haribo for prizes....but the parents also know that the whole party's taken care of other than the food and can watch the fun and relax.

I've found the trick in my neck of the woods is to have "a price" and offer some or all of this sort of thing at no extra cost..it makes it look a lot better money from the client's perspective and makes you seem more appealing....they're getting a lot more bang for their buck even though they're spending more money.

I think it was Toby that suggested earlier on in this thread that it's very much a case of softly softly catchy monkey. I was where you are this time last year (I did weddings for £175!). I've since worked on who I am,what I offer, and more importantly, how I market myself, and the gigs are still coming. This is going to be a continuous process and a lot of hard work, but I'll reap the results over the next couple of years until I'm where I want to be.

Just my experience from this year's research and results

[DJ Jules]

Personally I couldn't afford to pay £300 for a DJ to come to my party. When you add in food and invites and hall hire etc a birthday party would be heading over £600 and for me (a tight wad) that is ludicrous .

Now if you were earning £1k a week for just a Saturday night, £600 wouldn't seem like quite so much...



Julian

[dicky]

The gig I landed on Saturday was a bit of an eye opener to me

As I mentioned it was 30 mins or so drive for me - but was actually in the neighbouring county - Shropshire in this Case, not Cheshire

I don't know what the wedding party cost (I know my fee was £200 as I was payed on the night) but i was on stage with these guys http://www.thebestsingingwaiters.com/ and I can't believe they come cheap!

Also all the food for the buffet was coming fresh out of the kitchens - so the stuff that IMHO should be eaten hot (but almost everyone puts out cold on a buffet) was coming out freshly cooked and warm - including the chicken goujons, mini spring roll thingsies and cheesy suasage rolls

So I guess some money was spenty on this night - my best guess in the region of £1000 - £1500 maybe more

I mention being a bit of an eye opener - well I have learned.....

The guy who passed me the booking has been in the DJ business for decades and is well known around here, but come to think about it he is taking evening wedding parties at £200 - so that must be the going rate and as good as this area is likely to get maybe?

Some customers definitely do like lots and lots of flashing lights - especially if they are big and powerful and can light the whole room. They honestly really did love it, but also the venue manager loved it which to me is possibly more important. Just by a stroke of luck, when I picked my kit up on Sunday (was too late on saturday what with the clock going forwards) I had a chat with her and was touting for any possible future business. She had a black book with a list of discos (and karaoke, singers, and all the other forms of club entertainment. The whole 'Discos' page was full with several written at the bottom after all teh printed ones. I immediately spotted what I thought for a second was my name on line three of the list - but it was spelt different Dickies Disco. She said that one had retired ages ago, so she crossed it out and put Dickys Disco immediately under, with my website and phone number

So I am now third on the list lol don't know if that is of any relevance but somehow it seems better than being tagged on at the bottom

Oh I also learned that my PA was powerful enough for this venue, but I did notice the clip LEDS fllicking on my Subs Amp (W-Audio 1300 -650W RMS per channel) on some very punchy bass tracks, which I have never seen it do before. Just a tiny nudge down on the Bass and this stopped, or they just flicked on one or the other channel occasionally rather than a quick flash on every beat. So it would seem that is the limit for this amp. Much bigger rooms and I would probably need another pair of those reinforced QTX 18'' subs and another amp. The Crown 21100 running the tops never clipped but that is around twice the power.

The singing waiters were great - they did the first hour after the buffet so really i just had to play background for 90 mins before the food, and 10:30-1am in full swing afterwards. The waiters had asked if they could use my PA and were verfy pleased with the results,far beefier than their own they said, and we exchanged business cards so who knows could be possiblity of work coming that way in future. It would be great to work with them again, we really got on well and I very much enjoyed it.

I'm glad there seems to be an acceptance that there are big regional differences in prices. It has been stated before that location does not make much difference. My first foray out of the city and I got almost 50% more money, made hopefully a couple good contacts, and know the limitations of my PA.

Oh Toby, I'm not quite sure where you are coming from thinking that people in affluent areas need to charge three times the money to be equally well off as those in living in poorer areas - we all pay much the same for food, fuel, energy, cars, foreign holidays, disco gear and the things we enjoy in life don't we?

PS - got a nice semi-detached 3 bedroom bungalow here, conservatory, garden front and back, it's a fairly quiet street and we don't get a lot of hassle, it's on the very edge of the city 10 mins walk to the south and I am in the countryside and 10 mins to the north I'm in the town centre. It's a snip if I ever come to sell it, could fetch as much as £80000 if I am lucky as it's probably the nicest house on the street as most of them are terraced. At least I own it outright.

Interestingly, everyone seems to be holding on to these houses - last two recorded sales on the street were in 2010
70 Spring Road Terraced house, Freehold £34,000
62 Spring Road Semi-detached house, Freehold £77,000
- so even if anyone wants a bargain seems like they don't come up very often lol

My best guess by the way why property is reasonably priced in Stoke? Because the weather is mostly e. so no one wants to live here I'm only here cos i was born here and haven't escaped yet

Rich