Our website is made possible by displaying online advertisements to our visitors.
Please consider supporting us by disabling your ad blocker.
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 32

Thread: Refusing Bookings - "Discriminative"?

  1. #21
    Ezekiel 25:17 funkymook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Staines, Middlesex
    Age
    62
    Posts
    4,666

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Boy View Post
    I did notice that this year the enquiry came phrased as simply a "social-group annual dinner-dance" - with me only discovering the nature of the group later on after saying the date was available and beginning the booking process.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim - Scotland's Party DJ View Post
    If you've already signed you're in a bit of a stick and the best situation is probably to be honest, say you didn't realise what it was and wouldn't be able to do the best job for them, give their deposit back and wish them well. You'd need them to agree to all of that though...
    I don’t think you’d need their agreement to cancel at all - they purposely hid (or at the very least failed to say) who the event was for and you can argue you wouldn’t have taken the booking if you had known.

  2. #22
    DazzyD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Between Sunderland & Durham
    Age
    48
    Posts
    5,064

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by funkymook View Post
    I don’t think you’d need their agreement to cancel at all - they purposely hid (or at the very least failed to say) who the event was for and you can argue you wouldn’t have taken the booking if you had known.
    "The client failed to disclose relevant information at the time of booking" is a pretty good defence in court.
    Dazzy D
    Lightning Disco & Entertainment

    Born to make you party!

  3. #23
    Dinosaur Excalibur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    East Yorkshire
    Age
    68
    Posts
    26,833

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by funkymook View Post
    I don’t think you’d need their agreement to cancel at all - they purposely hid (or at the very least failed to say) who the event was for and you can argue you wouldn’t have taken the booking if you had known.
    Quote Originally Posted by DazzyD View Post
    "The client failed to disclose relevant information at the time of booking" is a pretty good defence in court.

    Sorry lads, I disagree. As far as we know, they're a legitimate organisation indulging in a legitimate activity. If you've taken the booking, just finding out who you're working for isn't grounds to reverse out of the deal, is it?

    Now here's a not unrelated one. Hotel rings you up, " can you do a wedding disco next week" ? You say yes, sign a contract, but when you turn up, it's apparent that it's a traveller wedding. Can you back out of that because you fear for your safety, and that of your kit? I'm sure it's in all our contracts that if our safety is compromised, that's game over.
    Excalibur. Older than the average DJ.

    www.excaliburmobiledisco.co.uk

  4. #24
    Ezekiel 25:17 funkymook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Staines, Middlesex
    Age
    62
    Posts
    4,666

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
    Sorry lads, I disagree. As far as we know, they're a legitimate organisation indulging in a legitimate activity. If you've taken the booking, just finding out who you're working for isn't grounds to reverse out of the deal, is it?

    Now here's a not unrelated one. Hotel rings you up, " can you do a wedding disco next week" ? You say yes, sign a contract, but when you turn up, it's apparent that it's a traveller wedding. Can you back out of that because you fear for your safety, and that of your kit? I'm sure it's in all our contracts that if our safety is compromised, that's game over.
    First instance - yes you can, the hunters aren’t protected under the Equalities Act, I can object to their pastime as much as I like, like many anti-hunt protesters do every week (as long as they keep within other laws of course).

    Second instance - no you can’t, the Travelling community are protected under the act (as some recent court cases have illustrated) so in your example you would be breaking the law.

  5. #25
    Dinosaur Excalibur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    East Yorkshire
    Age
    68
    Posts
    26,833

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by funkymook View Post
    First instance - yes you can, the hunters aren’t protected under the Equalities Act, I can object to their pastime as much as I like, like many anti-hunt protesters do every week (as long as they keep within other laws of course).

    Second instance - no you can’t, the Travelling community are protected under the act (as some recent court cases have illustrated) so in your example you would be breaking the law.
    Now you see, as a simple little soul, that seems bum about face to me.

    You can refuse to work for some folk just because they're pillocks, but can't refuse because of possible danger to you and your kit?

    Hmmmmm.
    Excalibur. Older than the average DJ.

    www.excaliburmobiledisco.co.uk

  6. #26
    Ezekiel 25:17 funkymook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Staines, Middlesex
    Age
    62
    Posts
    4,666

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
    Now you see, as a simple little soul, that seems bum about face to me.

    You can refuse to work for some folk just because they're pillocks, but can't refuse because of possible danger to you and your kit?

    Hmmmmm.
    No, you can’t refuse if your reason is based on who or what they are if it's covered under the Equalities act (which we’ve already discussed).

    Just had a quick check and the act only covers travellers of Romany and Irish descent so you could still be able to legally refuse if they weren’t - but you’d have to be very sure of exactly who they were.

    But just for a moment replace ‘traveller' with ‘black’ (and I’ve actually heard people say all black people are muggers, rapists, rioters etc so obviously there’s a possible danger to them there) or gay (some would state that seeing same sex couples together disgusts them). Are we still feeling as comfortable seeing those groups refused service anywhere?
    Last edited by funkymook; 17-07-2015 at 11:05 AM.

  7. #27
    Dinosaur Excalibur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    East Yorkshire
    Age
    68
    Posts
    26,833

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by funkymook View Post
    Are we still feeling as comfortable seeing those groups refused service anywhere?
    I'm not desperately comfortable seeing anyone being refused service because of who or what they are. I've worked for Travellers ( not disclosed before the event, BTW. ), Masons, Buffaloes, probably an Aardvark or two ( Mod note: That's just plain silly. Stop it at once. ), most nationalities, quite a few religions, differing sexual persuasions, why I've even worked for Yellowbellies and Lancastrians!!

    I still think it's lunacy that I can refuse to work for someone because of their interests*, but not because I might be in danger of injury. ( And yes, I know that's a stereotypical view, I'm not claiming it's true in every case. The events I've done have been no more than " lively", but didn't half cause the release of some adrenaline! )

    * Interests. Now that's the $64,000 question. Philately, needlework and Trainspotting, seem harmless enough.
    Huntin' Shootin' Fishin', well we know that's possible cause for concern. I'm sure I can think of other ones which are more controversial ( given time, and I don't intend to post them here if I do. )
    How abhorrent to the DJ ( or other service provider ) does it have to be, to justify refusal? That's tricky.

    Devil's Advocate:
    OK Martin. The hunt approaches me to do a gig for them, and when I find out, I cancel. So far , so good. But the person who made the booking is of an ethnic group, ( or religion ) differently abled, and sexual persuasion. Am I then up the creek? I'd say they had a good chance of making the case that I refused for any or all of those reasons, and not cos I don't like Hunting, wouldn't they?
    Excalibur. Older than the average DJ.

    www.excaliburmobiledisco.co.uk

  8. #28
    Ezekiel 25:17 funkymook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Staines, Middlesex
    Age
    62
    Posts
    4,666

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
    I'm not desperately comfortable seeing anyone being refused service because of who or what they are. I've worked for Travellers ( not disclosed before the event, BTW. ), Masons, Buffaloes, probably an Aardvark or two ( Mod note: That's just plain silly. Stop it at once. ), most nationalities, quite a few religions, differing sexual persuasions, why I've even worked for Yellowbellies and Lancastrians!!

    I still think it's lunacy that I can refuse to work for someone because of their interests*, but not because I might be in danger of injury. ( And yes, I know that's a stereotypical view, I'm not claiming it's true in every case. The events I've done have been no more than " lively", but didn't half cause the release of some adrenaline! )

    * Interests. Now that's the $64,000 question. Philately, needlework and Trainspotting, seem harmless enough.
    Huntin' Shootin' Fishin', well we know that's possible cause for concern. I'm sure I can think of other ones which are more controversial ( given time, and I don't intend to post them here if I do. )
    How abhorrent to the DJ ( or other service provider ) does it have to be, to justify refusal? That's tricky.
    You’re still totally missing the point while also answering your own question - that’s a remarkable feat by any standard.

    If you say your not going to take on the booking of a group covered in the Equality Act because of who they are then you fall foul of the act.
    Your aversion to doing the travellers booking based on them being travellers (either Romany or Irish) is no different in the eyes of the law as someone refusing to work for a black or asian client because they don’t like them.

    You’re also only looking at it from one scenario and from a DJ perspective - the act covers all businesses, without the Equality Act any business could refuse to serve people based solely on their colour, religion, sexual orientation etc etc. Would it be right for your local newsagent to have a sign up saying ‘no gays’? Or sections of a town being a no go areas for Jews because all the shops decided they didn’t want to serve them?

    We can all pick extreme scenarios out of the hat that appear to make any law unreasonable, but there are far wider implications if you start allowing that sort of discrimination.


    Quote Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
    Devil's Advocate:
    OK Martin. The hunt approaches me to do a gig for them, and when I find out, I cancel. So far , so good. But the person who made the booking is of an ethnic group, ( or religion ) differently abled, and sexual persuasion. Am I then up the creek? I'd say they had a good chance of making the case that I refused for any or all of those reasons, and not cos I don't like Hunting, wouldn't they?
    Not if you dressed up as Basil Brush when you go to court....

  9. #29
    DazzyD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Between Sunderland & Durham
    Age
    48
    Posts
    5,064

    Default

    The fact of the matter is, as a service provider, I'm well within my rights LEGALLY, to refuse to provide a service to ANYONE I like (or, perhaps, don't like!) and for whatever reason UNLESS the person falls in to one of the groups protected under the Equality Act AND my reasons for doing so are not in direct relation to that protected group (and I could prove it beyond reasonable doubt).

    For example, it would be illegal for me to refuse to provide a service to a black client on the grounds that he was black. This is covered under the Race Relations Act as well as the Equality Act. However, if said client had kicked my dog to death a year earlier, and was convicted of it (thereby there's proof), then I would be entirely within my rights to refuse to provide him the service based on the fact he had killed my dog. He could play the racism card but it would be pretty easy, in this case, to prove my reasons.

    Fox hunters do not fall in to any of the protected group definitions so I can LEGALLY refuse to provide a service to them and legally give the reason that I don't agree with their activities and, by providing a service to them, it would compromise by beliefs. Although, in this case, I wouldn't even need to justify my reasons for refusal.

    As I said earlier, the Equality Act really is clear. There are protected groups and you cannot discriminate against people in those groups for reasons that are in direct relation to the definition of that group. Everyone else is fair game. Simples!

    Oh, and as for travellers, as Martin pointed out, only certain travelling groups are protected under the Equalities Act. The vast majority can be treated just the same as the rest of us!
    Dazzy D
    Lightning Disco & Entertainment

    Born to make you party!

  10. #30
    Dinosaur Excalibur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    East Yorkshire
    Age
    68
    Posts
    26,833

    Default

    I can see I'm beaten here , but I'm also

    Don't think some of us are looking at things the same way. I'm not talking about refusing bookings because of who people are, but because I'm likely to suffer physical harm, or equipment damage.

    OK, let's go a step further. I take a booking for any of the " protected " groups, and I'm intimidated physically. My contract says I can pull the plug. Is this against the law too?

    Like I've said countless times, I'll work for anyone who will pay me ( within some very very wide parameters ). If taking a booking puts me in danger of physical harm, I don't want to take the booking. Simples.
    Sadly, by doing so, I appear to become Public Enemy No1. Ah well.
    Excalibur. Older than the average DJ.

    www.excaliburmobiledisco.co.uk

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •