In need of some sound advice

[Casual77]

I've received a booking on a night that I already have another booking (coincidentally both 18th birthday parties) and have entrusted my 19 year old step son, James, to do the second one as his first solo gig. He's going to need some more training on the music front but he is an Events Management undergraduate currently and feels that it will be good experience for him. Surprisingly, he doesn't seem at all fazed by the size of the event or at having to speak on the microphone so I'm hoping he can pull it off reasonably well. I'm happy that I have sufficient lighting to run both gigs concurrently but the problem is that I'm definitely coming up a bit short on the speaker front.

The gig that James has been landed with is by far the bigger of the two, but unfortunately we can't really swap at this stage. His gig will be indoors in a large function room and will have between 150-200 guests. Mine is a much smaller affair in a garden marquis with around 60 guests. My speaker collection consists of a pair of Yamaha DBR12As, an Alto TS Sub15 and a pair of W Audio PSR8As. Normally I just go to gigs with the pair of Yamahas and occasionally add the sub for larger venues and I only bought the W Audio 8" speakers because they were a good price and I thought they might come in handy for kids parties. Ideally, I'm thinking James could do with having the Yamahas and sub for his gig but on this occasion he may just have to make do with the Yamahas alone. That would then leave me a potential combination of the sub with the 8" W Audio speakers.

I've been to sound test this possible set-up this evening to see if I think it would be suitable for the garden party and, to be honest, I'm not sure whether I think it is, or not. I'm used to the warm, full bodied sound that I get from the Yamahas and the sound from this set up was clearly not as pleasant on the ear. On a positive note, the top end from the 8" speakers was very crisp (if a little 'tinny') and the sub produced a decent low end rumble but there was definitely something lacking in the mid range. Having said that I'm used to hearing the Yamahas from behind them and not from the dancefloor perspective I was judging this set-up from, so maybe it was not a fair comparison.

So, the question I'm left with is whether it is acceptable to use 8" tops with a 15" sub or is it a ridiculous idea? If it is acceptable, what is the best way to set it up to get a reasonable sound? The best I could seem to manage was by using the full-range outputs on the sub and then boosting the bass slightly and lowering the treble on the DJ controller. That seemed to get the nicest sound out of the speakers and then I gradually turned up the volume on the sub until it could just be heard over the speakers to fatten up the sound without the bass becoming too over-powering. Is that the best way to set it up or is there a better way to approach it?

Also, is it normal that the back panels on the W Audio speakers became really hot after only about half an hour's use? Would I need to be concerned about them overheating and shutting themselves down if I used them continuously for a five hour party?

[yourdj]

I've received a booking on a night that I already have another booking (coincidentally both 18th birthday parties) and have entrusted my 19 year old step son, James, to do the second one as his first solo gig. He's going to need some more training on the music front but he is an Events Management undergraduate currently and feels that it will be good experience for him. Surprisingly, he doesn't seem at all fazed by the size of the event or at having to speak on the microphone so I'm hoping he can pull it off reasonably well. I'm happy that I have sufficient lighting to run both gigs concurrently but the problem is that I'm definitely coming up a bit short on the speaker front.

The gig that James has been landed with is by far the bigger of the two, but unfortunately we can't really swap at this stage. His gig will be indoors in a large function room and will have between 150-200 guests. Mine is a much smaller affair in a garden marquis with around 60 guests. My speaker collection consists of a pair of Yamaha DBR12As, an Alto TS Sub15 and a pair of W Audio PSR8As. Normally I just go to gigs with the pair of Yamahas and occasionally add the sub for larger venues and I only bought the W Audio 8" speakers because they were a good price and I thought they might come in handy for kids parties. Ideally, I'm thinking James could do with having the Yamahas and sub for his gig but on this occasion he may just have to make do with the Yamahas alone. That would then leave me a potential combination of the sub with the 8" W Audio speakers.

I've been to sound test this possible set-up this evening to see if I think it would be suitable for the garden party and, to be honest, I'm not sure whether I think it is, or not. I'm used to the warm, full bodied sound that I get from the Yamahas and the sound from this set up was clearly not as pleasant on the ear. On a positive note, the top end from the 8" speakers was very crisp (if a little 'tinny') and the sub produced a decent low end rumble but there was definitely something lacking in the mid range. Having said that I'm used to hearing the Yamahas from behind them and not from the dancefloor perspective I was judging this set-up from, so maybe it was not a fair comparison.

So, the question I'm left with is whether it is acceptable to use 8" tops with a 15" sub or is it a ridiculous idea? If it is acceptable, what is the best way to set it up to get a reasonable sound? The best I could seem to manage was by using the full-range outputs on the sub and then boosting the bass slightly and lowering the treble on the DJ controller. That seemed to get the nicest sound out of the speakers and then I gradually turned up the volume on the sub until it could just be heard over the speakers to fatten up the sound without the bass becoming too over-powering. Is that the best way to set it up or is there a better way to approach it?

Also, is it normal that the back panels on the W Audio speakers became really hot after only about half an hour's use? Would I need to be concerned about them overheating and shutting themselves down if I used them continuously for a five hour party?

I would hire/buy/borrow another sub or totally different PA for the garden party. An 18th with 150 people (there is never as many people as they say in 18ths) will need good sound especially with R&B etc. Your son will also feel confident that he has been entrusted with the best kit. Bigger pair of actives perhaps for the garden party and forget the altos perhaps? Might be worth buying a set of the cheaper Yamahas if this is going the a regular thing? deduct it from your sons pay over a few events. I am literally discussing deducting nappy funds from my newborn when/if he starts DJing for me at some point as he gets through tons of them each day.

http://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/pa-liv...UyxhoCE9_w_wcB

[Casual77]

I would hire/buy/borrow another sub or totally different PA for the garden party. An 18th with 150 people (there is never as many people as they say in 18ths) will need good sound especially with R&B etc. Your son will also feel confident that he has been entrusted with the best kit. Bigger pair of actives perhaps for the garden party and forget the altos perhaps? Might be worth buying a set of the cheaper Yamahas if this is going the a regular thing? deduct it from your sons pay over a few events. I am literally discussing deducting nappy funds from my newborn when/if he starts DJing for me at some point as he gets through tons of them each day.

http://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/pa-liv...UyxhoCE9_w_wcB

Thanks Toby.

The speakers you have linked to are the speakers I already own. I have considered buying a second pair of cheaper 12" actives but I have an issue with storage space at home and I'm not sure if this will be a regular thing or not. It potentially could be but if James does this gig and decides it is not for him it might be the last one he does and the speakers would be an unnecessary expense. I think I need to get him through this first gig and then make a decision about whether to buy extra equipment.

Hiring is not really an option either because there isn't enough money in the gig to justify the expense.

[Benny Smyth]

I actually prefer the sound of my 8 inch tops with my 15 inch sub over the 12 inch top/15 inch sub combo. I'll obviously use the latter if I need the bigger sound but as a general rule, if I feel that I can get away with the 8 inch tops, I'll use them.

As for the W Audio heating up, mine used to do that. Used to take longer than half hour though - is it too hot to touch?

[Casual77]

I actually prefer the sound of my 8 inch tops with my 15 inch sub over the 12 inch top/15 inch sub combo. I'll obviously use the latter if I need the bigger sound but as a general rule, if I feel that I can get away with the 8 inch tops, I'll use them.

As for the W Audio heating up, mine used to do that. Used to take longer than half hour though - is it too hot to touch?

I wouldn't say 'too hot to touch' but certainly hotter than I would expect them to get after such a short time.

Would you consider the 8" tops/15" sub to be a suitable combo for a small garden party gig then? Out of interest, what percentage of your gigs would you use that kind of set-up on and what 8" tops do you use?

I've just had a quick scan on eBay and there is a pair of Alto TX12's I could pick up locally for under £200 which could be worth considering. If I go down that route and decide I don't need them I can probably move them on again without losing much, which would seem a more sensible option than hiring a PA system for the night.

[Benny Smyth]

I wouldn't say 'too hot to touch' but certainly hotter than I would expect them to get after such a short time.

Would you consider the 8" tops/15" sub to be a suitable combo for a small garden party gig then? Out of interest, what percentage of your gigs would you use that kind of set-up on and what 8" tops do you use?

I've just had a quick scan on eBay and there is a pair of Alto TX12's I could pick up locally for under £200 which could be worth considering. If I go down that route and decide I don't need them I can probably move them on again without losing much, which would seem a more sensible option than hiring a PA system for the night.

I sold my W Audios to Dicky a few months back (maybe even last year). Maybe he can shed some light on this, but I don't remember them getting hot that quickly.

I don't see why the 8 inch tops/15 inch sub combo wouldn't work - it would depend on the size of the marquee. All my speakers are RCF, and I use two subs for pretty much all my gigs and for a small marquee, I'd use 2 905a Subs and 408 Tops. For larger marquees, I'd swap the 408s for my 712s.

As for the latter part of your post, bad idea. If you're having to buy kit to cater for a gig, you shouldn't have accepted the gig in the first place.

[funkymook]

My thoughts are - hire the kit and forget profit on this one (it can’t be paying much anyway). Let your son manage the equipment hire and logistics and deal with the clients.

Then if he fancies doing more DJ’ing after this one he can do a business plan and work out the best way forward.

It will all be invaluable experience for his future Event Management career, there’s nothing like seeing the job from all angles and it will look very good on his CV.

[Nakatomi]

My thoughts are - hire the kit and forget profit on this one (it can’t be paying much anyway). Let your son manage the equipment hire and logistics and deal with the clients.

Then if he fancies doing more DJ’ing after this one he can do a business plan and work out the best way forward.

It will all be invaluable experience for his future Event Management career, there’s nothing like seeing the job from all angles and it will look very good on his CV.

[Pe7e]

the speakers would be an unnecessary expense.

Personally I think having back-up equipment is a necessary expense, and you don't currently seem to have any, look at it as an investment.

Hiring is not really an option either because there isn't enough money in the gig to justify the expense.

IMO a pair of 12" actives on their own is insufficient for an 18th birthday disco for 200 people in a large'ish venue, and to contemplate using a pair of potentially faulty 8" actives for an 18th birthday bash in a marquee, is verging on the ridiculous. Do you really think saving £25 - £30 on hire costs justifies putting two birthday parties (and your own reputation) at risk?

I've just had a quick scan on eBay and there is a pair of Alto TX12's I could pick up locally for under £200 which could be worth considering. If I go down that route and decide I don't need them I can probably move them on again without losing much, which would seem a more sensible option than hiring a PA system for the night.

That would be a more sensible option

[ppentertainments]

IMO a pair of 12" actives on their own is insufficient for an 18th birthday disco for 200 people in a large'ish venue, and to contemplate using a pair of potentially faulty 8" actives for an 18th birthday bash in a marquee, is verging on the ridiculous. Do you really think saving £25 - £30 on hire costs justifies putting two birthday parties (and your own reputation) at risk?

Whilst I totally agree, where can you hire a decent set of speakers for £25-30 ??