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Thread: Coalville 2016, the unexpurgated truth!!

  1. #11

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    Maybe if we'd heard the Black series in a different configuration it'd have been a different story. The bass was, it seemed to me, fairly muddy. The quality of bass out of the B52 was much better I thought. Nothing like as loud, but there was a lot of loud there on Sunday.

    As Peter has said before he's heard 15" tops with 15" bins & wasn't enamoured with them. 12" tops with 15" or 18" bins, let us hear that. Or 15" tops with 18" bins.. put me in the queue waiting to audition them. In theory, the sub's crossover should deal with only giving the tops what it's not playing with - but that depends on where the mid/top cab's bass response starts and how steep the rolloff of the sub's crossover is. Too much overlap & there's gonna be mud.

    That said, with Alto's iDevice app you can allegedly tweak the crossover frequency of the Black subs - maybe that's all it'd take - or simply adding an external active crossover to better tune them.

    Anyway, my own subwoofer shopping is on hold again after building a space model of a sub I fancied & trying to fit it in my car with all my other stuff. D'oh. We're gonna need a bigger vehicle, Dave. Besides, do I really wanna be lugging an extra 40 kilos around just for a bit of boom boom boom every night?

    What I'd expected to see on Sunday was a sound level meter somewhere so we could all get an idea how loud 'loud' was - and to judge the manufacturer on how much their specs lie. Maybe something to suggest for next time eh?

  2. #12
    Imagine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
    The word " Amazing " springs to mind, simply because they amazed everyone.

    Juski and the Yamaha owner lashed them up in a hurry, and as we said, that left a big hole in 80-120 Hz, due to crossover mismatches. When the rig was fired up, you could see everyone left in the room thinking " Hmmmm. Those tops with a lightweight sub ( The matching one for example ) and I could have an easily prtable, nice sounding, very pretty PA. " .

    Hmmmm.....a 12" sub - that makes my 18" look like a behemouth!
    I'm seriously tempted to go and listen to the combo now - £2k possibly about to leave my wallet

  3. #13

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    The only snag with Yamaha's 12 & 15 inch subs is they're bandpass designs. They might still sound fine though.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by juski View Post
    Put it this way Wayne, when those little Yamahas started playing just about everybody stopped what they were doing & came for a butchers. No wonder they'd been saved til so late in the day! You'd might need to use them with a sub for disco duties I think. Or not, if you're doing a kids party or a small family shindig. We tested them out with Peter's Alto (yeah the one he said will never blow anybody away) 15" sub & they sounded mighty sweet even accounting for a mismatch in xover frequencies (the tops were set to high pass & the sub was fed from an output on one of the tops - it was set up in a hurry!).

    The only other system that even came close in terms of detail & clarity by my recollection was the B52 rig.

    People have commented that the DXR8s sound too much like hi-fi speakers, like that's a bad thing. What - you mean clear, controlled & musicality to die for? :O

    So if the DXR8 sounds THAT good, what on Earth does the DXR12 or 15 sound like?!
    I Wish I had gone now!
    My DSR 12"s are fantastic so I would love to see if Yamaha could improve on them!
    The only bad point is the Handle is on top of the unit?
    I also have the 15" Yamaha Sub but I find that most places I only need the 12"s.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by juski View Post
    The only snag with Yamaha's 12 & 15 inch subs is they're bandpass designs. They might still sound fine though.
    Errr wots a bandpass design?

    I need to get up to speed as thinking of buying a powered sub- see separate new post

    thanks

  6. #16
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    W = frequency

    Name:  Bandform_template.jpg
Views: 367
Size:  51.6 KB

    Hope that helps a bit
    darylldj.co.uk , serving hampshire , Surrey and sussex

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daryll View Post
    W = frequency

    Name:  Bandform_template.jpg
Views: 367
Size:  51.6 KB

    Hope that helps a bit
    Hi Daryll, unfortunately not clear to me.

    What is it--a filtering of all frequencies other than bass ?

    thanks

    ALAN

  8. #18

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    Bandpass subs are sometimes referred to in sound engineering circles as 'one note bins'. Meaning they reproduce one bass note really loud & others.. not so much. Great for kick drums, sometimes not so great for anything else. Your preferences may vary.

    Look at this plot for the RCF 705AS-II...

    Name:  705as.jpg
Views: 349
Size:  40.5 KB

    The peak is at approx 70Hz there, but look at 40Hz & the output has dropped almost 10dB. Go up to 100Hz & the output drops the same amount.

    But - you can look at graphs til you go wonky eyed. The only way to decide is to listen & decide for yourself.

    What a 'band pass' actually means is pass frequencies between frequency X and frequency Y - i.e. passes a band of frequencies.

    Low pass means pass only low frequencies up to a certain point.
    High pass means pass only frequencies above a certain point.
    Last edited by Excalibur; 13-02-2016 at 07:52 AM. Reason: merged posts

  9. #19
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    My learned friends above have given the technical answers, which are entirely correct, but may not help you in your choice.

    Band pass cabs produce a different type of sound to bass reflex cabs. I'm not fond of it. I'd recommend hearing thje two side by side.

    My numpty guide is that if you can see a speaker behind the grille, it's bass reflex, if you can only see slots, and no speaker cone, it's a band pass. That's only scratching the surface, but might help. In my humble opinion, bass reflex are more musical.
    Excalibur. Older than the average DJ.

    www.excaliburmobiledisco.co.uk

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
    My numpty guide is that if you can see a speaker behind the grille, it's bass reflex, if you can only see slots, and no speaker cone, it's a band pass. That's only scratching the surface, but might help. In my humble opinion, bass reflex are more musical.

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