P.A.T: Discussion

[Vectis]

HSE inspector:
"Can I ask what steps you took to prevent the speaker toppling over and killing little Johnny?"

DJ (under caution):
"Well I did a risk assessment and decided that the risk was minimal. I put some stripy hazard tape on the protruding leg to make it more visible."

HSE inspector:
"Great ... can I see the RA please?"

DJ (still under caution):
"No"

HSE inspector:
"Why not?"

DJ:
"Because it's in my head"

[Benny Smyth]

Thats what annoyed me about NAD as doing a written risk assessment every time you do an event is way overboard, especially as my set up is very safe and my journey into the venue is one trip. So with that creditiation to stop you getting gold that is a bit OTT. Fine for a big disco with hanging lights all-around the room or dance floor hire, but totally over the top for my little set up and the venues/events I work at. On memory that was actually the main reason I did not resubscribe (sorry mixing threads now).

So your setup doesn't require any heavy lifting, or has any trip hazards?

Am I right in thinking that you work in pretty much the same venues, Toby? If so, I'm pretty sure in thinking that you can have one Risk Assessment per venue and assuming that all gigs are the same (from an H&S perspective) and nothing changes, that RA should cover you for a set amount of time. If you have a gig where something is different from a H&S point of view, you can just knock one up specifically to that event.

If I'm wrong on the above (and I can't see why I am - Sainsbury's don't do risk assessment walks every day), then you could easily copy the old RA from that venue and change the date (again, assuming that everything is exactly the same).

[yourdj]

So your setup doesn't require any heavy lifting, or has any trip hazards?

Am I right in thinking that you work in pretty much the same venues, Toby? If so, I'm pretty sure in thinking that you can have one Risk Assessment per venue and assuming that all gigs are the same (from an H&S perspective) and nothing changes, that RA should cover you for a set amount of time. If you have a gig where something is different from a H&S point of view, you can just knock one up specifically to that event.

If I'm wrong on the above (and I can't see why I am - Sainsbury's don't do risk assessment walks every day), then you could easily copy the old RA from that venue and change the date (again, assuming that everything is exactly the same).

No not really a trip hazard unless someone falls into my screen? Only person that lifts the kit is me and that only really the sub, I could do a RA every time, but I do feel that given my kit and set up, that just common sense would be sufficient as i have PLI and PAT, to cover me when a drunk person claims for something. Uplighting is the only thing thats out from the booth, but thats usually very much out the way. All cables are always taped down properly. There really is no huge threat to the safety of the guests or damage to the building.

I suppose the best time would be when leaving the venue as guests are all drunk. It all wheels out in one, so someone could trip over it or something?? As I say I have done thousands of events most of which at the same venue and don't really come across any obstacles, but RA may be something worth looking into for my main venues?? I just don't want to think about doing one as it will be so pathetic given that 90% of them have such good access and the kit is so minimal/hidden nowadays. Might look in to it though.

Dave, if you are not going to get PAT, then I would remove the last bullet point from your site, just in case. You only have 4 DJ's but I guess you take most the work. Over the years I have had a lot of last min enquiries as the venue will not permit the DJ to work as they don't have PAT or PLI. Clock Barn, Balmer Lawn for instance.

[Nakatomi]

Sounds like you've already done the risk assessments Toby. Identify potential hazards, observe how they apply to you & what steps you can take to minimise the risks.

A lot of H&S is common sense really.

[Benny Smyth]

No not really a trip hazard unless someone falls into my screen? Only person that lifts the kit is me and that only really the sub, I could do a RA every time, but I do feel that given my kit and set up, that just common sense would be sufficient as i have PLI and PAT, to cover me when a drunk person claims for something. Uplighting is the only thing thats out from the booth, but thats usually very much out the way. All cables are always taped down properly. There really is no huge threat to the safety of the guests or damage to the building.

I suppose the best time would be when leaving the venue as guests are all drunk. It all wheels out in one, so someone could trip over it or something?? As I say I have done thousands of events most of which at the same venue and don't really come across any obstacles, but RA may be something worth looking into for my main venues?? I just don't want to think about doing one as it will be so pathetic given that 90% of them have such good access and the kit is so minimal/hidden nowadays. Might look in to it though.

But what about if you injure yourself? Does your PLI cover you as the DJ (for a certain amount, at least)? If so, it's great that you tape down leads and all the steps you take but unless you have the paperwork to back it up, it won't mean anything and your PLI may not pay out.

When it comes to H&S, you have to remember one thing: there is no such thing as common sense and even if there is, it's not you who decides what sense is common and what isn't. That'll be decided by forces greater than any of us.

[yourdj]

But what about if you injure yourself? Does your PLI cover you as the DJ.

How would I injure myself? I do Yoga 2-3 times a week, so back is not an issue.
If I broke a toe or something I certainly would not claim, thats my fault.
RA is for my kit I guess, if a venue light fell on me, then i would claim against them.
I see your point though if I was out of work for some reason i would want to be paid i guess.

I would imagine having indemnity insurance for loss of work through serious accident would be a better bet?
Would I need a RA then. Most probably it would be through cancer or a disease like that.
Loss of earnings would be my main concern.

[Benny Smyth]

How would I injure myself? I do Yoga 2-3 times a week, so back is not an issue.

Yes, yoga. I hear that's what Superman uses to keep his powers of invincibility tip top! :-P

C'Mon Toby - you know exercise doesn't prevent injuries.

My PLI could pay out 10k if I become blind at a gig. So, assuming that was caused by my laptop randomly exploding, I'd have an RA to say that it was PAT tested, was in good condition and was being used correctly by a trained individual.

If I didn't have that, I may not get my payout.

These are all extreme cases that are incredibly unlikely to happen and we may not come across any of this in our lifetimes, but if we do...belts and braces, as I like to say.

[yourdj]

Yes, yoga. I hear that's what Superman uses to keep his powers of invincibility tip top! :-P

C'Mon Toby - you know exercise doesn't prevent injuries.

My PLI could pay out 10k if I become blind at a gig. So, assuming that was caused by my laptop randomly exploding, I'd have an RA to say that it was PAT tested, was in good condition and was being used correctly by a trained individual.

If I didn't have that, I may not get my payout.

These are all extreme cases that are incredibly unlikely to happen and we may not come across any of this in our lifetimes, but if we do...belts and braces, as I like to say.

I was not aware that PLI can be claimed against injury to yourself, I use Apple so it won't explode.
I am still looking into a professional insurance from loss of work or something.
That and a heavy amount in savings to tide me over for at least 5 years.

The topic of another thread.

[Benny Smyth]

I was not aware that PLI can be claimed against injury to yourself.

Check your policy. I'm not saying that all PLI does pay the DJ and there are limits to what they will pay out for (mine will only pay out to me if I go blind or die at a gig).

Edit: Just to note a correction, for the policy I have it's £5k for a loss of limb, £5k for loss of sight and £10k for death.

Today's cheery conversation was bought to you by Benny Smyth.

[Excalibur]

Sounds like you've already done the risk assessments Toby. Identify potential hazards, observe how they apply to you & what steps you can take to minimise the risks.

A lot of H&S is common sense really.

Which I'm sure is pretty much what all of us do.

Vectis, I'm not complaining about the RA policy on your site, merely stating that it's a piece of paper too far for me. Like you say, my choice, no problem.