P.A.T: Discussion

[rth_discos]

Admin: The posts below have been moved from the Needadisco thread...

Because I don't have current PAT records.
If I'm correct, you didn't need them to get bronze award before... I think it's a recent change which is odd.

Any reason why you don't? I think it's hard to justify a mobile disco going out and not having an annual PAT test, especially when it costs less than £100 to do for an average mobile rig (depending on how much kit you have).

I've been asked for it from venues before.

[Benny Smyth]

What really grinds on me is that you're considered better for having your equipment PAT tested yearly!

I totally understand why some people like venues and DJs who would rather do it than bother arguing and go with the flow. But surely Martin knows that it's not relevant to the quality, legality, or anything which indicates a good DJ! It's something a business does if they wish to, nobody else's business!

So I don't even get a bronze award... Doesn't matter that I have plenty of positive feedback!

When is "I put all my taxable income in my self assessment" going to contribute to the DJ mark? Surely that's far more important and legal?

Needadisco is good but it's DJ police style is what let's it down. And I didn't even mention having a risk assessment ranks you as a better DJ? ? What?... Insanity! I've got one put I need not bother uploading to needadisco as I cannot get past bronze anyway!

Yeah, why should we have to provide evidence of best practices for our industry? How dare NaD demand that we put forward some basic paperwork to demonstrate that we take steps to ensure that our equipment is safe and that we are insured in the unlikely event of something going wrong!

Personally, I think that PAT & PLI should be a damn sight more expensive. Let's see how much trimming that does to the number of operators in the industry. Unfortunately, there is no way to measure how good a DJ is so NaD is restricted to ensuring that DJs provide stuff that can measured, and it's unfortunately a boring list to tick off: PAT - Check!, PLI - Check!, RA - Check! etc.

I can see how NaD works for some. It didn't for me, and I like to think that I gave it a fair crack. I don't blame Martin or NaD for that, nor do I blame myself. It's just one of those things.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Toby - This sentence from one of your posts is spot on in my opinion - "At the end of the day we have to accept that this is largely a hobbiest industry and not one taken seriously or moderated by official standards.
"

The number of times I have been asked if it is my full time job and then when I have replied afterwards with a "Yes" the comeback has been...."Oh, I didn't realise you could earn a living out of being a DJ"

Well, you can if you do it properly and you're good.

[ukpartydj]

Any reason why you don't? I think it's hard to justify a mobile disco going out and not having an annual PAT test, especially when it costs less than £100 to do for an average mobile rig (depending on how much kit you have).

I've been asked for it from venues before.

It's essentially the same reason I wouldn't spend 2 months of my "salary" on an engagement ring.
I don't take out extended warranties.
I'm not going to buy a 4k TV despite the fact I cannot see a difference bettween 720p and 1080p.
I don't bother buying WAV format music ... actually I do as it's cheaper (thanks Lee) but ... anyway!

You're required to maintain your equipment in a safe condition by law, pretty simple right? ... Don't need a PAT tester for that.
Have any of us ever thought ... hmmm I wonder how Gardeners get away with not testing their 3200 rpm sharp metal blades yearly with a special device that checks the integirity of the blade by doubling what it's designed to be able to handle during normal operation?

Hey but that light fixture might give somebody a nasty shock before the fuse blows even though it was flightcased, then you handled it.
This is where you tell me you use a 13a plug for a 5a light fixture or you don't unwind any coiled extentions hey you might even run 4000w worth of equipment through a single plug socket! Sorting that out is far more important than getting a PAT test done in my opinion... So when is the NAD electrical compitance test coming out?

Anyway who came up with the idea your equipment needs to be tested yearly? ... Was it MR PAT tester himself, or did somebody who has does not benifit finanically from it come up with that?

Yeah, why should we have to provide evidence of best practices for our industry? How dare NaD demand that we put forward some basic paperwork to demonstrate that we take steps to ensure that our equipment is safe and that we are insured in the unlikely event of something going wrong!

Personally, I think that PAT & PLI should be a damn sight more expensive. Let's see how much trimming that does to the number of operators in the industry. Unfortunately, there is no way to measure how good a DJ is so NaD is restricted to ensuring that DJs provide stuff that can measured, and it's unfortunately a boring list to tick off: PAT - Check!, PLI - Check!, RA - Check! etc.

I can see how NaD works for some. It didn't for me, and I like to think that I gave it a fair crack. I don't blame Martin or NaD for that, nor do I blame myself. It's just one of those things.

Oh dear. I think Insurance companies make enough money as it is, £49 per year for PLI may sound cheap but considering how many claims they have to pay out a year I reckon they'd still be able to make a profit on £5 a year.

[Benny Smyth]

Oh dear. I think Insurance companies make enough money as it is, £49 per year for PLI may sound cheap but considering how many claims they have to pay out a year I reckon they'd still be able to make a profit on £5 a year.

And how many claims do they pay out a year?

Assuming that a customer claimed on the full extent of a £5 million cover, that would require 1 million customers to just pay for that one claim. I don't understand why you - a business owner - would have issue with another business making a healthy profit.

[ukpartydj]

And how many claims do they pay out a year?

Assuming that a customer claimed on the full extent of a £5 million cover, that would require 1 million customers to just pay for that one claim. I don't understand why you - a business owner - would have issue with another business making a healthy profit.

Because they're healthy profit reduces my healthy profit?
Because I like to moan?

Really what are the odds of a DJ causing £5m worth of damage though? I don't work in many venues with diamond chandiliers, and I don't think that'd be worth £5m either. I think you'd find it pretty tricky to cause that level of damage without killing somebody, then you'll wish you saved you're £49 and spent it on something meaningful before you go to prison!

That being said PLI is important just incase you do accidently cause damage you cannot afford to recifty yourself. And AMPDJ are useful for other things but I digress from my digressing!

[rth_discos]

Really what are the odds of a DJ causing £5m worth of damage though?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-17435042

Imagine a piece of equipment catching fire - very possible.

[Benny Smyth]

I think you'd find it pretty tricky to cause that level of damage without killing somebody, then you'll wish you saved you're £49 and spent it on something meaningful before you go to prison!

Or spend your money on PAT, PLI and accompanying that with a Risk Assessment will keep you out of prison if the worst were to happen, assuming that you can prove that took all the reasonable steps that you could to ensure that nothing like that would happen. Unless you think that going to prison is worth it, 'cos you'll be saving £50.

As for eating into your profit, do you not price yourself to cover these costs whilst keeping a profit that you'd be happy with?

[funkymook]

We can argue the rights and wrongs forever but if a venue requires you to have a PAT certificate then you either comply or don't take the booking. For that reason alone it's a no brainer.

[ukpartydj]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-17435042

Imagine a piece of equipment catching fire - very possible.

Firstly one needs to consider £5m is a lot of money. I'd imagine many hotels are only worth £5m including their surrounding land, you'd need to literally burn it all to the ground.
The insurance company wants you to believe that you're little light fixture could possibly set fire to a drape if you maybe placed it too close, that drape would then happen to not meet fire safety standards and would catch fire extremely quickly so quick that you wouldn't be able to pick up a fire extigusher in time despite the fire probably being right in front of you and that drape would then set fire to other items that don't meet fire safety standards rapidly.

I don't think "very possible" is correct. And I don't feel like comparing explosives with DJ equipment is relevant.
I'm not saying it's impossible though, I'm just saying - I would never let that happen personally.

Or spend your money on PAT, PLI and accompanying that with a Risk Assessment will keep you out of prison if the worst were to happen, assuming that you can prove that took all the reasonable steps that you could to ensure that nothing like that would happen. Unless you think that going to prison is worth it, 'cos you'll be saving £50.

As for eating into your profit, do you not price yourself to cover these costs whilst keeping a profit that you'd be happy with?

Let me get this right... you want the insurance comapnies to raise their prices so that we have to charge more? Some customers likely won't give a damn and will go with the unisured DJs. I'm struggling to understand how me and you would benifit. I guess if all the venues ask for PLI then that'd work. Hmm okay, you've got an idea . Can we leave PAT out of this though, she doesn't belong.