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Thread: Denon Axis Speaker Range

  1. #21
    Casual77's Avatar
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    A DBR8 for around £300 would be ideal. Do you think if we begged Yamaha they would consider bringing one out?

    The RCF 708 does look like a definite possibility though. Its just a shame that the RCF 12" sub is so expensive at £700+ making a 2 subs and 2 tops set-up still come in at over £2,000.

    Would any of the line array systems offer anything comparable to this kind of set-up at a cheaper cost? I can't say I know anything much about them having only heard a few. I'm assuming you would generally go with a pair of them rather than a single unit unless you were playing just ceremony or background music?

  2. #22
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    I have bought 2 RCF 708a mk2s. Not used them in anger yet but initial indoor trials very positive. Very clear and detailed with acceptable controlled but not earth shattering bass.

    Will be gigged for the first time on 28th and 29th of this month with my RCF 902a's

    If I was looking for a cheap, small light sub to pair them with I with (which I am considering) I would go with one of these.

    http://www.whybuynew.co.uk/sound-pa/...-subwoofer.htm

    or these

    http://www.whybuynew.co.uk/sound-pa/...-subwoofer.htm

    The EV's are exception for the size and weight, really really nice sound. Not heard the new Alto's

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJColsie View Post
    I have bought 2 RCF 708a mk2s. Not used them in anger yet but initial indoor trials very positive. Very clear and detailed with acceptable controlled but not earth shattering bass.

    Will be gigged for the first time on 28th and 29th of this month with my RCF 902a's

    If I was looking for a cheap, small light sub to pair them with I with (which I am considering) I would go with one of these.

    http://www.whybuynew.co.uk/sound-pa/...-subwoofer.htm

    or these

    http://www.whybuynew.co.uk/sound-pa/...-subwoofer.htm

    The EV's are exception for the size and weight, really really nice sound. Not heard the new Alto's
    The Alto TS212S sub does seem like a reasonable step up from the Alto Tsub12s that I currently own but then when I follow the link and look at what other subs Why Buy New offer I find myself asking whether the Denon 12S sub for £239 is a better option than the Alto TS212S for £299. Am I right in thinking that since Denon was bought out by Numark who also own Alto that they would be coming out of the same stable anyway?

    The EV subs look nice but I think I would feel inclined to pair them up with the 8" EV tops rather than the RCFs purely for aesthetics reasons.
    Last edited by Casual77; 12-10-2016 at 05:25 PM.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual77 View Post
    Pe7e strikes me as someone who has a good knowledge of speakers and their capabilities given that he runs a dry hire company and owns numerous different brands of speaker. I will wait for his report and factor that into any decision I make.
    Thank you for the vote of confidence, but what I think can only be my opinion, and due to the nature of my operation, my priorities may be different from yours. Sound is a very personal thing what I may like, might not ring your bell, if you can, listen to what ever you intend to buy if at all feasible. Also take into account you clients will be far less critical of your sound than you will, provided of course it's decent quality equipment, in good repair, and not being over driven.

    On to the mini review, on unpacking it was obvious the speakers had been produced for the higher end of the market, there's nothing about them that screams cheap and cheerful, they have a good build quality that looks to have been designed to last. I like the design of the subs more than the tops, but they are growing on me by the second, I've just not owned square tops before.

    First to be connected up were the tops, I wanted to see what they could do without the subs and I was duly impressed with their output. To my surprise they can certainly compare with SRM450 Mackies on their own, I wasn't really expecting that. IMO they would easily cope with a party of 80 or so guests, and probably more, but I don't like to run speakers hard, they last longer that way (and sound better)

    Next step was to connect the subs into the system using the 'high pass' option into the tops, the PA was turned on and another surprise, the amount of chest pounding bass they can produce defies their size, they're incredibly powerful, as another post mentioned they had to turn down the gain to 10 o'clock, I also did the same, plus took a bit off the bass EQ before I could turn the desk volume higher. I can't imagine anyone needing to use the subs anywhere near their potential, just one would be adequate for most situations I've ever come across where I'd take 12" speakers to.

    To summarise I wanted a compact PA with a small footprint that would fit easily into an average car with space to spare for a Gigabar and a player. It also needed to be capable of playing to an audience of 60 - 80 guests and provide a full 'Disco' sound, and not be only suitable for a retirement party gig or background music. It also needed to be at a price that would allow me to achieve a decent ROI at an attractive hire fee. Personally I think the 2 x 12 + 2 x 12S Denon Axis system exceeds these requirements by a margin on all counts, I'm delighted with them, so much so, after I picked myself up from being blown over, I purchased another pair this afternoon before they sell out, they are such a bargain IMO.

    There is one slight concern I have however, and some may not see this as a problem, the amp modules in both the tops and the subs are awesomely powerful and I fear they could give the drivers a good rodgering in the wrong hands, despite the on board protection circuits. I'll need to be careful as to who I allow to hire them, 18s and 21s parties will be off the accepted list.

    Finally, back to the original question, do I recommend them to Casual77 ? well he needs to make his own mind up after taking the opinion of others into consideration, but I certainly wouldn't try to put him off. If purchased from 'Get in the Mix' you can buy an additional 2 years guarantee for a little under £90 giving you 3 years cover for under 59p a week if the fact they're a discontinued item worries you. I would suggest if Casual77 does go with the Denon's, get the 12" tops not the 8", the 12" tops are only 15" cubed, the space/weight you would save with the 8" would be insignificant compared with the extra flexibility the 12"s would provide you with, and you would be far less likely to damage the drivers if you were to get a bit over enthusiastic some night when the party's rocking.
    Last edited by Pe7e; 12-10-2016 at 07:21 PM.
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  5. #25
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    Thanks for taking the time to write that review Pe7e. It's much appreciated. Whilst I agree that sound perception is very subjective and one person's 'excellent' might only be another person's 'OK', I don't think for a second that I would have any major complaints with any sound that you consider to be good. To be honest your review was very much in line with what I was expecting you to say. Whilst I won't buy them simply on the back of your report I can honestly say that if you had thought they were terrible I would certainly have been put off buying them.

    I also take on board your point about getting the 12" tops instead of the 8"s due to the dimensions not being all that much bigger. Looking at the specs the 12" tops would be considerably smaller than my DBR12s and, as you say, would offer more flexibility than the 8"s.

    At this point I'm definitely swaying towards giving them a go. I just need to decide whether the extra 2 years warranty is worth paying an additional £90 for. Did you take up this option?

    Out of interest, does anyone who advised against these being a worthwhile purchase think differently on reading Pe7e's positive report?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourdj View Post
    ? I have bought an 8 inch 124spl 'PRO' speaker from Thomann (£160), and although I have not fully tested it, using it at events alongside my other speakers, I don't think its loud enough even for ceremonies, compared to my 12 DBR (I may be wrong).
    At which point, I have to say that might the more expensive option of DXR8 or DBR10 have been a better investment? I've had W Audio PSR8s, and from the off their limitations were obvious.


    Quote Originally Posted by Casual77 View Post

    I've thought about line array systems but I'm not sure which if any within my budget would offer the sound quality and volume I'd want so I was thinking that 8" tops and 12" subs would probably be a better option for me. That would hopefully give me a back up system that would get used on occasion.
    If you want 8" tops, why change your subs? One of the Alto 12s used to outclass two Alto TS210 with ease. Just stick RCF ( £720 ) or Yamaha ( £1,000 ) over them, and you'll have a rig with a proven track record.


    Quote Originally Posted by Casual77 View Post
    Justin - I get your point about there only being a 12 month warranty but that doesn't cause me major concern. I tend to buy a lot of my equipment second hand so I'm used to having no warranty at all. And, again I do place a certain amount of trust in the Denon brand based on my previous experience of it.
    I think you're missing the point. Second hand kit like RCF 310, or Denon X-500 are widely regarded as bulletproof, and with a spares backup including secondhand. I wouldn't have confidence in kit which didn't sell well, was discontinued shortly after launch, and may well have issues if repairs are needed.



    Quote Originally Posted by Casual77 View Post
    . In the meantime, if anyone has any suggestions of anything else in the same financial ballpark that I should consider as an alternative I'd be very interested to hear them.
    I know one secondhand rig for well under £500 which would blow the Denons out of the water. Only two snags. Firstly the cabs need stripping to bare wod and repainting with Tuffcab. Secondly, the PV2600 that drives them is heavy.
    What cabs, I hear you cry? W Audio Epics, 10" subs and tops. Amazing performance.


    Quote Originally Posted by Casual77 View Post
    Would any of the line array systems offer anything comparable to this kind of set-up at a cheaper cost?
    No. Next question please.
    My beloved Maui 5 is £1000 per pair with bags from Thomann, and the 11 is £1200. Hand on heart, I wouldn't expect them to match this Denon rig for power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Casual77 View Post
    I can't say I know anything much about them having only heard a few. I'm assuming you would generally go with a pair of them rather than a single unit unless you were playing just ceremony or background music?
    That's the beauty. Use one or both.

    The Corabars sing the praises of the Maui 28, but that's more expensive still, as is the Curv. Pe7e I think bought an 11, I'd be keen to know how he'd compare that to one side of the Denon.

    EDIT: Pe7e bought a 28. Still be keen to hear how it matches up against Denon.
    Last edited by Excalibur; 12-10-2016 at 09:34 PM.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
    Pe7e I think bought an 11, I'd be keen to know how he'd compare that to one side of the Denon.
    I'd be interested in Pe7e's thoughts on that too. I noticed the edit about him actually having bought the 28 but I could potentially buy a new pair of Maui 11s for under a grand which would make them comparable to the cost of the Denon system. I presume that if the 28 wouldn't match the performance then the cheaper 11 wouldn't either.

    Peter, would you consider that higher powered 12" subs wouldn't offer enough extra benefit over the Alto Tsub12s to justify the extra cost? Would you not consider the Denon 12s an upgrade on the Altos?
    Last edited by Casual77; 12-10-2016 at 08:58 PM.

  8. #28
    Dinosaur Excalibur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual77 View Post
    I'd be interested in Pe7e's thoughts on that too. I noticed the edit about him actually having bought the 28 but I could potentially buy a new pair of Maui 11s for under a grand which would make them comparable to the cost of the Denon system. I presume that if the 28 wouldn't match the performance then the cheaper 11 wouldn't either.
    How much? With bags? Note that Pe7e didn't like the 11s due to physical size.

    Quote Originally Posted by Casual77 View Post
    Peter, would you consider that higher powered 12" subs wouldn't offer enough extra benefit over the Alto Tsub12s to justify the extra cost?
    Let me put it another way. Do you ever feel your subs are underpowered/underperforming? I never did, and I only had ( needed ) one. What benefit will louder ones give?

    Quote Originally Posted by Casual77 View Post
    Would you not consider the Denon 12s an upgrade on the Altos?
    Considering the phone conversation I've just had with someone about them, most definitely not. Pe7e's reports of his experiences with these things is becoming of the utmost importance.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
    How much? With bags? Note that Pe7e didn't like the 11s due to physical size.


    Let me put it another way. Do you ever feel your subs are underpowered/underperforming? I never did, and I only had ( needed ) one. What benefit will louder ones give?


    Considering the phone conversation I've just had with someone about them, most defiknitely not. Pe7e's reports of his experiences with these things is becoming of the utmost importance.

    Gear4Music appear to be selling the Maui 11 for £480 each but I'm not sure if that includes the bags or not.

    I'm not sure what benefit louder ones would give. A richer sound maybe? I just assumed there must be some reason why people would spend more money on higher powered subs but I admit I haven't heard enough to answer that question.

    Are you able to enlighten me regarding the phone conversation?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual77 View Post
    A DBR8 for around £300 would be ideal. Do you think if we begged Yamaha they would consider bringing one out?
    I don't see why not, it can be hard to convert the DXR in to a DBR.
    Perhaps we should ask them? I think a lot of people would find that a handy little speaker.


    Quote Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
    At which point, I have to say that might the more expensive option of DXR8 or DBR10 have been a better investment? I've had W Audio PSR8s, and from the off their limitations were obvious.
    We shall see on Sat when i test them in a big room. I have only used them on full when my other PA was also on.
    For £160 it's not a problem really as I can still use them Wish the RCF's had bass and treble as i would have bought them tbh.

    I will go DXR8 if not as the only reason I wanted one was for the size benefits of not carting about my 12 inch.
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