Sound Limiters

[Imagine]

Bypassing a limited with a clean socket is not wrong if you were to plug say a lamp into the limiter sockets, and use that as your warning, therefore keeping within the sound limits set.

Same with the battery speaker - I'm assuming some of your kit still switches off, such as your lights, so as long as that means your immediately bringing your volume down to be in line with the limits set by the limiter then I see no issue.

If you are using the battery equipment to blatantly ignore the limiter and produce a volume in excess of what is permitted (which of course is not what you would do), well that is where the issue occurs.

You beat me to it Gavin.
The setup I'm using for these occasions is a pair of Maui5 Go (battery powered), and a UPS to power the controller. The lights are direct into the mains so if the power goes I lose lighting.

It's not to circumvent the limiting requirements and I always play by the book on that front. It's to stop potentially several thousand pounds of damage to equipment going on and off.

[Benny Smyth]

I can't get my head around the concept of DJs and Bands repeatedly setting off a sound limiter.

First time: OK, you pushed your luck and you were given a proverbial clip round the ear. We don't know how wide this pitch is until we get to the edge, and we do like playing along the lines.

Second time: Should have learned your lesson already, but could still be considered a mistake. Perhaps in the excitement of a good party, you stopped glancing at those traffic lights.

Third (or more) time: Now we have entered the realm of incompetence.

I've seen DJs suggest getting on the mic and telling guests that there is a limiter and that is why the music isn't being played as loud as we'd like, but I don't subscribe to that at all. I have found that speaking to the client about it is more than enough, because word will spread quickly. Long before anyone comes up to us, they're already talking amongst themselves about how they would like the music to be louder. The client will tell one guest, that guest will tell two others, and so on. Anyone who does come up will not ask in an accusatory way "Why don't you turn it up?", but will ask in a more sympathetic "Is this really the limit?" They come up hoping, but they already know the answer and are very understanding of it.

Limiters are not that difficult to work with once you accept that you are not going to win this fight. The same thing with installed sound systems. Last night, I had a wedding at a Tipi venue with a sound ceiling. Guests and clients knew long before I rocked up what the situation was with sound, and we did the best with what we had to play with. The only power I have is to not accept another gig there.

As I told the very unhappy sax player who tooted along to my tunes last night: "Just 'king get on with it!"

[ppentertainments]

Having worked closely with local council regarding this I can safely say that it is DJs and Bands/Singers causing the problems that is resulting in more limiters AND lower limits. People aren't stupid and know when battery speakers are being used, or the system bypassed with a long lead - you only have to open your ears to realise lol

There is a LOT worse to come too, as now there are studies into staff working in environments with loud noise, and again it will be DJs and Bands who will ensure these are stricter than needed. The guy I have been dealing with says he wouldn't be surprised if within 3 years EVERY venue that allows music to be played will have a limiter of some description.

Basically like it or lump it, if you can't work with limiters perhaps it is time to look for a different career !

[Excalibur]

You beat me to it Gavin.
The setup I'm using for these occasions is a pair of Maui5 Go (battery powered), and a UPS to power the controller. The lights are direct into the mains so if the power goes I lose lighting.

It's not to circumvent the limiting requirements and I always play by the book on that front. It's to stop potentially several thousand pounds of damage to equipment going on and off.

What he said.

( Except I don't need mains/UPS to keep the controller alive for a few minutes )

[DJ Jules]

I would normally agree that repeatedly tripping a limiter suggests a lack of attention, except I have experience of a couple that I've yet to really fathom out what a "safe" level is.

One of my regular venues that (helpfully) has 3 broken orange LEDs on the scale of 8 so I either know I'm well in the green or I'm hitting red and I get no warning in-between. That particular limiter also has the mic in some obscure part of the venue so it's actually not monitoring sound levels in the room, but sound levels outside the building, making it even harder to predict if I'm playing within the limits or not and it can be susceptible to tripping if there are people drunkenly shouting outside the venue.

At that venue I plug most of my kit into a different socket and one speaker into the limiter so I know when I'm tripping it (or something is tripping it), but it doesn't interrupt the night. I've provided Photobooths at the venue on multiple occasions and heard bands stop their set and re-route their power on almost as many occasions...

Julian

[Imagine]

I can't get my head around the concept of DJs and Bands repeatedly setting off a sound limiter.

Don't get me wrong - I work with these things on a regular basis and have NEVER had a problem. Yes, I'll use battery stuff where it's a little over-sensitive but I'm constantly monitoring those little lights of doom because let's face it....it's there for a reason and I'm not going to be the one getting sued for the venue losing their license.

I've seen DJs suggest getting on the mic and telling guests that there is a limiter and that is why the music isn't being played as loud as we'd like, but I don't subscribe to that at all. I have found that speaking to the client about it is more than enough, because word will spread quickly. Long before anyone comes up to us, they're already talking amongst themselves about how they would like the music to be louder. The client will tell one guest, that guest will tell two others, and so on. Anyone who does come up will not ask in an accusatory way "Why don't you turn it up?", but will ask in a more sympathetic "Is this really the limit?" They come up hoping, but they already know the answer and are very understanding of it.

I work in exactly the same way. I've spoken to both of the couples this is going to affect and explained the score. Next week's isn't too fussed, in fact in her own words "we're not really party people but felt we had to have something for the evening" so it's not going to be too much of a problem. The week after however is going to have one of those tooters dancing around on the dance floor and I suspect from reports I've had from folks that have already worked with this new limiter that she'll trip it with absolutely no help from me.

Having worked closely with local council regarding this I can safely say that it is DJs and Bands/Singers causing the problems that is resulting in more limiters AND lower limits. People aren't stupid and know when battery speakers are being used, or the system bypassed with a long lead - you only have to open your ears to realise lol

There is a LOT worse to come too, as now there are studies into staff working in environments with loud noise, and again it will be DJs and Bands who will ensure these are stricter than needed. The guy I have been dealing with says he wouldn't be surprised if within 3 years EVERY venue that allows music to be played will have a limiter of some description.

Basically like it or lump it, if you can't work with limiters perhaps it is time to look for a different career !

Again - no problem whatsoever with limiters. I'm one of the good guys that plays by the rules. BUT, I'll be damned if I'm going to lose an expensive speaker or controller just because a guest decides to sing underneath the things.

The reason for using the battery stuff for the next two is that the limiter fitted is over sensitive. According to one of the jocks that's been in there recently (and he's the sort that plays by the rules), it's unworkable. If my lighting goes off, I'll know I've overcooked things and pull back accordingly.

What he said.

( Except I don't need mains/UPS to keep the controller alive for a few minutes )

If Denon still made said beast, I'd be buying one at the moment. It's a lot lighter than my UPS

[mattydj50]

When I worked at my previous venue, the sound limiter was situated half way down the length of the room. Never a problem for me as I soon got used to it and, as I only played at that venue it was easy to monitor. Occasionally when the guests were singing away, it was red for a worrying period, but I just cut my volume back.

Worse was that the limiter was also connected to BOTH sets of double fire doors, so if either of them were opened, darkness and silence ensued. Guests sneaking out for a crafty drag was a favourite or some boisterous behaviour resulting in the crash bar being pushed got my blood going too.

The organiser of one function, an after sales conference event for Phones4U decided she was going home at 11pm one night and decided to pick up her bags and laptop and waltz straight out of one door, arguing with the banqueting manager as she went, as he tried to explain what would happen.

Boof! Off it all went. Fortunately, Eddie had had enough of her that evening and refused to go and reset the power. I didn't object! The reset button was in the store room accessed at the back of the room so, even though I knew where it was and how to reset it, I usually played dumb! A member of staff came to do the necessary and to "remind" the culprit not to do it again. We did adopt a three strikes and you're out after one group decided it was fun to open the doors on multiple occasions. We went to reset it that night and, oh dear, it wouldn't reset as the trip had gone and an electrician was needed. Shame!

Bands and singers were another thing though. They seemed to have great difficulty, even after sound checks, to be able to control the level. I've known bands cut it off during their first song, then the second, third.

Many of them blame the venue, the crowd (singing too loud) the council, the police(?), indeed anyone but themselves. I was often asked how I managed to get the music loud enough without knocking it off. Easy, experience and using my ears.

The only times it bothered be was when someone decided that the room was set up turned at 90 degrees to the norm, so I was set up along the long wall facing the entrance doors. The dance floor was in front of me with tables either side. Unfortunately, that meant that the sound limiter was behind me, above my head. It also meant that my speakers were pointing away from the limiter. So, combine the two and we were OK.

The worst place at that venue was when they took over the restaurant for Christmas parties. 20 hotel bedrooms above. Complaints from guests who were not at the part7 wanting to sleep. You could barely hear the music in the bar sometmes!

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Thankfully we don't have many of those things and the ones that do have an inhouse system instead (rather those than ones that pull your power as yes it can impact your equipment).

I never really understood ones that have limits but allow bands as they're so much louder than DJs.

Most of us on here would do the sensible option and have the lighting plugged into the mains and use that to monitor the sound levels but having done photobooths and seen other DJs in the flesh it's not surprising a few ruin it for the rest of us smarter folk.

[Excalibur]

Having worked closely with local council regarding this I can safely say that it is DJs and Bands/Singers causing the problems that is resulting in more limiters AND lower limits. People aren't stupid and know when battery speakers are being used, or the system bypassed with a long lead - you only have to open your ears to realise lol

There is a LOT worse to come too, as now there are studies into staff working in environments with loud noise, and again it will be DJs and Bands who will ensure these are stricter than needed. The guy I have been dealing with says he wouldn't be surprised if within 3 years EVERY venue that allows music to be played will have a limiter of some description.

Basically like it or lump it, if you can't work with limiters perhaps it is time to look for a different career !

And anyone who can't see that noise issues are going to come to the fore in the future, and prepare for it, is a fool. Health and Safety at work would mean that at some gigs, the bar staff could only work for really short periods, unless wearing hearing protection.

I'm now envisaging a barman with industrial earmuffs on having a phone shoved in his face, and on the screen it says " Two pints of Lager, and a packet of crisps please".

[Imagine]

And anyone who can't see that noise issues are going to come to the fore in the future, and prepare for it, is a fool. Health and Safety at work would mean that at some gigs, the bar staff could only work for really short periods, unless wearing hearing protection.

I'm now envisaging a barman with industrial earmuffs on having a phone shoved in his face, and on the screen it says " Two pints of Lager, and a packet of crisps please".

And I'll wager it won't be spelled correctly and the screen will be cracked and unreadable