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Thread: Sub help please

  1. #21
    ukpartydj's Avatar
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    It's not surprising that gain structure isn't known by many DJs. I only really fully understood it a few months ago.

    I'm quite fortunate that I have plethora of volume controls due to having a controller running into a mini-mixer which I've found much more useful than I originally thought it would be.

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  2. #22

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    Thanks again folks for all the helpul responses. I was told, cant remember who by, that the powered speakers should be turned up to the 0 mark (Half Way) for the optimum output and sound quality maybe it was a lot of nonsense then. I have a gig on this Saurday so will try them at around 3 o clock mark and see how we get on.

    Did a gig a couple of weeks ago again in a really small pub, set at the 12 o clock position on all the speakers and the tops were clipping without it being too loud. Was discussing this with a mate who plays guitar in a band and he said he would wire the rig th opposite way to me, i.e take the output from the mixer into the top first then down to the sub. I have always set up the other way, mixer into sub then up to top. Who is correct?

  3. #23
    Dinosaur Excalibur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djderek1971 View Post
    and he said he would wire the rig the opposite way to me, i.e take the output from the mixer into the top first then down to the sub. I have always set up the other way, mixer into sub then up to top. Who is correct?
    No!
    And then again, yes.

    Whimsy over. In the old days, with passive cabs, subs first was the norm. Not the unbreakable rule, but definitely the norm.

    Nowadays, with actives, particularly those with lots of DSP ( Digital Sound Processing ) onboard, the rule book has been torn up and burnt. You can wire them any way you want DEPENDENT ON WHAT YOU WANT TO ACHIEVE!

    If you've got small tops, needing a lot of help from the subs ( which is a popular rig these days, for good reasons ) then subs first, and feed a filtered ( ie minus the lowest bass notes ) output to the tops.

    Conversely, if you've got hefty tops, and less powerful bins, it's a perfectly reasonable idea to give the tops a full range signal as normal, and tag the bins on to beef up the bottom end.

    Your ears are the best tools in your box, if there are no red lights, it's loud enough and sounds good, it's right.

    If not, it's not.
    Last edited by Excalibur; 01-12-2017 at 11:36 AM.
    Excalibur. Older than the average DJ.

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  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by djderek1971 View Post
    I was told, cant remember who by, that the powered speakers should be turned up to the 0 mark (Half Way) for the optimum output
    50% correct.

    The 0 mark is correct. But many speakers aren't marked with 0db, so 0 can be in different places. On some speakers, 0 is half way. On others, 0 is all the way to the max. So it really depends on your speakers. I assume 0 is all the way unless marked otherwise. It's when the gain is designed to cover both mic and line input that you really need to watch, because turning it all the way up could be very nasty!

    Quote Originally Posted by djderek1971 View Post
    I have always set up the other way, mixer into sub then up to top. Who is correct?
    Again, 50% correct!

    It all depends on the sub and the speaker.

    Generally, when using a sub and top, the sub will provide an output for the top, which is filtered, so that none of the bass goes to the top. The sub therefore acts as the crossover.

    In some cases though, I've seen the crossover built in to the top (although less often).

    So it all depends on the exact setup, and what options are on each speaker.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by rth_discos View Post
    50% correct.


    It all depends on the sub and the speaker.
    I am using 2 x RCF 715a Mkii tops (1400 Watt Peak, 700 Watt RMS digital amplifier) and 2 RCF 705 AS ii subs (Digital amplifier with 1400 Watt / 700 Watt-RMS)

    Which way would you go to get the loudest output from this.

    It seems to have been louder before I got the subs, since I added them it doesn't seem as loud. I assumed I would have more volume.

  6. #26
    Dinosaur Excalibur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djderek1971 View Post

    Which way would you go to get the loudest output from this.
    Now you see, in my humble opinion, that's not the right question. I'd be looking for the best quality or nicest sounding output.

    No good being loudest if al you can hear is the thud of the bins, or the screech of the HF units.


    Right brace yourself:We cant tell you. We're not listening to it in operation. In the posts above you have been given lots and lots of excellent advice, from many folks.

    On page 7 of the manual, on the back of the cab, there are three switches. The top one controls whether the output of the subs is filtered or not. One way, the tops will get exactly what the subs get, the other way, the bass will be removed. Try it both ways, and see what you like.

    The switch below alters how much is pulled out of the signal. Try it both ways.

    The third one alters the phase of the subs. Leave that for now. Try altering one only and see if your bass response increases.

    Plug the signal into the bins, and link to the tops. Don't turn the tops on. Turn the bins on, and set the dial to max. Give them as much signal as you can from the mixer without any red lights. That's max bass output. Leave it there. With all controls the same, turn the tops on, and gradually turn them up until either it sounds balanced with the subs, or all the clip lights come on. That's max everything. If there are still an windows left in the building at this point, you can then start firkling about to refine the sound.If you've blown them all out, it's time to pack up and go home, cos you won't be playing there again.

    I'd go subs first, and full range into tops. I suggest that you don't go altering things like switches at full volume, for safety. Good luck
    Excalibur. Older than the average DJ.

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  7. #27

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    Thank you. Ill see how things go tonight. Detailed responses all very much appreciated and very helpful

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