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Thread: The first step on the road to knowledge is realising how little you know.

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    Default The first step on the road to knowledge is realising how little you know.

    I wanted to write a long post to follow up what has been said.

    And then I realised I'd need a day to explain it all in depth - maybe there's an idea...

    In essence, earning high fees is relatively easy in this industry (compared to other industries).

    It doesn't take that much to stand above the rest of the industry, where the standard is quite frankly, pretty poor in many cases.

    There are many good DJs, offering a great service, not charging the right fees, for fear of 'not getting it', based on what too many poor DJs constantly repeat about 'can't get that round 'ere'.

    Create a good product, market it properly, and deliver what you promise - very simple, but that's all you need to do.

    A few positive changes here and there can make a BIG difference.

    It's amazing, and quite scary how poor many DJs are - something let's them down - be it their personality, how they dress, their email responses, or even their website.

    Bring everything up to scratch, along with being able to entertain and deliver a solid performance, and you're on the right road.

    Obviously the biggest change is actually ASKING for the money.

    No one is going to offer to pay you more than you quote. So until you regularly ask for more money, you won't really know what you're worth.

    Perversely, quoting too low can actually PUT OFF those who are looking for a premium service!

    But if you want to ask for more money you need to present an image in line with the price you're asking!

    And of course, then deliver it!

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    Dinosaur Excalibur's Avatar
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    Default The first step on the road to knowledge is realising how little you know.

    Talk of advancing knowledge, Promobile courses and other things in the BPM thread has led to the creation of this. I may pop my thoughts in later, but Gavin can set us off very nicely thank you.
    Excalibur. Older than the average DJ.

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    In response to the title of this thread, which I didn't choose, one thing I will add, is that whilst I agree that the more you learn, the more you realise how little you know, being part of training events can highlight how much you already know.

    To quote Wayne from the other thread:

    a lot of it is obvious stuff that you just tend to forget/overlook.
    So what's the advantage of attending training to be told what you already know?

    Training can help you focus. Often whilst you were aware of it, you may not have realised its importance, or which aspects to invest time in.

    Equally, it can give you confidence that you are better than maybe you thought you were. It's easy to think that the 'premium DJs' are doing something so vastly different to what you do, that when you discover that it's not too far off what you're doing, it gives you the confidence to charge the right fees.

    Plus, the networking side of training is excellent. A year ago I didn't know anyone in the industry - I was quite happy being a 'lone wolf', as I didn't want to get in to the politics (ironic really for anyone that's seen my Facebook posts!!), but I've since found there are a good number of high quality DJs very happy to share their knowledge. Which is a far cry from the 'darker' side of the industry, which sadly plagues us.

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    Dinosaur Excalibur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rth_discos View Post
    In response to the title of this thread, which I didn't choose, .
    Which can and will be changed at your behest. Just say the word.
    Excalibur. Older than the average DJ.

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    OK - I'll chip in

    Until recently, I really DIDN'T do this training lark. I'd been burned before (in fact the poor advice I got cost me bookings), and I didn't believe there was anything that could be taught. I was wrong, of course. I'd just taken the wrong advice.

    I've also been dying for a thread like this as a fairly new convert to this training lark.

    Quote Originally Posted by rth_discos View Post
    And then I realised I'd need a day to explain it all in depth - maybe there's an idea...
    I'm up for another one of your In Demand sessions (it did me, and talking to the others that were there, a LOT of good!). The food was excellent too

    Quote Originally Posted by rth_discos View Post
    It doesn't take that much to stand above the rest of the industry, where the standard is quite frankly, pretty poor in many cases.

    There are many good DJs, offering a great service, not charging the right fees, for fear of 'not getting it', based on what too many poor DJs constantly repeat about 'can't get that round 'ere'.

    Create a good product, market it properly, and deliver what you promise - very simple, but that's all you need to do.

    A few positive changes here and there can make a BIG difference.

    It's amazing, and quite scary how poor many DJs are - something let's them down - be it their personality, how they dress, their email responses, or even their website.
    Agree, 100%.
    There's something in business called the 1% rule, whereby changing just 1% of what you do can make mahusive differences to how things work. Just changing a paragraph in an email, adding good quality photos to your website, getting social interaction from previous and future customers on the likes of Facebook....it all adds up and it's only little things.

    Quote Originally Posted by rth_discos View Post
    Obviously the biggest change is actually ASKING for the money.
    Oooooohhhh yes! It's a huge leap of faith to ask for more money. BUT....if you're presenting the right, professional image (and are prepared to work at it like answering questions and justifying your value properly....it will come). Trust me....I did it!


    Quote Originally Posted by rth_discos View Post
    Equally, it can give you confidence that you are better than maybe you thought you were. It's easy to think that the 'premium DJs' are doing something so vastly different to what you do, that when you discover that it's not too far off what you're doing, it gives you the confidence to charge the right fees.
    And there's the buzz word right there. CONFIDENCE. If you're not confident in what you're doing and how much you can charge....you're never going to get it.

    And it's not necessarily about the amount of kit you take out either (although it can and does occasionally seal the deal). As an example (and this isn't a dig by any means), the last I saw of Toby's setup (who earns more than me), he was using one of the old Equinox screen things with stuff stacked up on flight cases behind the booth, whereas I roll now on weddings with a totally white setup. That said, I can earn as much on a wedding with the Retro kit as I can the all-white...go figure. All totally acceptable setups and neatly presented (see...said it wasn't a dig), but Toby has done a LOT more of the training stuff than me, and probably has a lot more confidence to ask for a proper amount.

    As another example, an experiment I did just last week based on a post from Mr Ferrel on the DJ Idea Sharing Facebook group. His challenge was to find out how much it would cost a customer to dry hire your equipment. Now bear in mind that dry hire doesn't include music (or obviously the DJ), I was genuinely shocked. I make a profit on my prices, but there's a lot of my competitors who taking that scenario, are going out for free or at a loss! OK - I know it's a slightly different scenario because hire kit takes a beating and tends to be replaced more regularly....but it's a way of seeing the difference between hiring just a disco, and hiring YOUR talent and experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
    Right folks, we've been drifting off topic for ages here, so I'm going to cut and paste ( or move, mayhap ) Gavin's thoughts into a new thread, and although it's going to touch on price, I hope it will focus on learning. See you later.
    I hope this doesn't turn into a pricing thread, there's no need for it to. It should be more to highlight what training can actually do and help you to achieve.

    Those of you that have known me long enough will know I've struggled at times to get where I am now, and without biting the bullet and accepting advice and training (both paid for and free), I'd probably have given up long ago. As it stands, I'm in a position whereby when my full time job finally disappears (it's looking like it's next August-ish at the latest guess), I'll be in a very good position to run the wedding side of my business as a full time job.

    One thing I would say....it might be better to move this particular thread to the members only section if possible. I'm sure there would potentially be more idea sharing that way if it's out of general view (I know I'd be happier to share ideas that way)

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    Quote Originally Posted by rth_discos View Post
    Training can help you focus. Often whilst you were aware of it, you may not have realised its importance, or which aspects to invest time in.
    Perfectly put.

    All this stuff was not so obvious a few years back, but many more DJ's have followed the trend; have massively increased their salaries, become happier people and that is always a very inviting concept for the struggling part time DJ going out for low wages and wanting to get better money and provide a better service.

    I have always liked the 1% ethic as its easy, just means you have to constantly analyse what you do and how you can improve it as its just too easy to get set in your ways, hang about with other similar DJ's and not progress as much as other people in your local industry. Before you know it you are outdated and confused? Obviously you can do this all on your own, or just with a small group of local DJ's, but for some people a collective is very advantageous. The photography industry is a good model for this one.
    Last edited by yourdj; 26-10-2017 at 07:26 AM.
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    Couple of things not directly related to the topic.

    Firstly, I offered to change the title, as Gavin had had it thrust upon him, but he's happy enough with it, so it can stay.

    Secondly, it has been suggested to me that this thread would be better moved to Supporters, so that people may post thoughts and advice more freely. I disagree, on the grounds that I'm hoping it will be of value to many people, especially if we can keep it in broad terms.

    Were it to move out of sight, that could back up allegations that it was " cliquey", and I don't really want that to happen. It would be very nice for the forum to have a raft of members throwing their pound a month this way because there's a thread in supporters that guarantees they can double their prices overnight with safety, but we'll hold off that Utopian dream for now.

    If people think it should be moved, let me know, and I'll consider it.

    Right, to the topic proper. I've got so much to say in reply to what's already been posted, but it will require a lot more time than I currently have at my disposal. Back soon.
    Excalibur. Older than the average DJ.

    www.excaliburmobiledisco.co.uk

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    For me the first step to knowledge is not realising how little you know but ACCEPTING how little you know.

    I remember when the £1200 a booking figure was first thrown around. Nobody believed it was possible, however for an all day booking I think, if that was your aim, it is possible for most – however you first have to accept that it is a possibility.

    I also recall when Richard Mills popped a photo up of his setup which contained 1 Bose L! and a Par Can. There was outcry about how that is not a disco etc etc. Roll on a few months/years and we see people using not much more and being successful at it, again people wouldn’t accept it at the time.

    There is also change. My problem is I seem to ‘just get it right’ but have to change to keep up with the times.

    So, onto training/education courses, seminars, workshops etc. The important thing which many people miss out on, is that one course, one seminar will NOT transform your business and will have a short shelf life. This was proven when many went on training courses, bumped their fee up etc etc only to find a few months down the line they were having to offer other services and take other bookings. As mentioned things do change and any training needs to be consistent.

    For myself, I do network a lot with other DJs and Wedding Suppliers. I have been on a couple of ‘proper’ DJ training days but found they were too focused on price for me. Yes I would like to earn a good fee, but for me making £1200 a day is of no interest if I only get say one booking a month. Instead I focus on building my company up to provide an income I desire (although that desire may have to be diluted lol).

    Also I am now not a one man band and I quickly found that I need to ensure everyone who works for me works in a similar manner. There are many qualities others have which I cannot offer, and vice versa so a happy medium is needed. Therefor a lot of formal training may not be right for my business.

    On a personal note as well as DJ training I have looked outside the box a little – I attended a few stand up comedian training classes, which although I have no intention of being a stand up comedian it helped me greatly with mic work and how to ‘control an audience’. Little ice breakers have proven invaluable too. I am also a trained toastmaster, although again do not offer this service, but instead offer a casual Master of Ceremonies and the training helped greatly in this. Lately I have been focusing a lot on presentation skills and have a few bookings in to host various events – which is the one thing that has really opened my eyes to prices. I network a lot with other wedding suppliers and their input is invaluable and learning about how others work really is worthwhile.

    My main training at the moment comes from our 2am McDonalds meet ups. Quite a talking point when I go to wedding network meetings yet to me, this is when I learn a lot. Things are fresh in peoples heads and I meet people not afraid to share experiences, ideas and plans.

    If anyone is struggling to improve their business, the best advice I can give is to remove yourself from any FB groups, get off your backside and get out there. It is known I am quite anti fb groups, but really they have created a huge challenge in working out what really is good proven advice and what isn’t.

    Oh and fees – forget about aiming for a certain amount, improve yourself and learn and the money side will look after itself (well that and a good accountant lol).
    Semi-Retired Multi Award Winning DJ

    www.ultimateweddingdj.co.uk

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    Quote Originally Posted by ppentertainments View Post
    On a personal note as well as DJ training I have looked outside the box a little – I attended a few stand up comedian training classes, which although I have no intention of being a stand up comedian it helped me greatly with mic work and how to ‘control an audience’. Little ice breakers have proven invaluable too. I am also a trained toastmaster, although again do not offer this service, but instead offer a casual Master of Ceremonies and the training helped greatly in this.
    I totally agree. Some of the very best training is from 'non traditional' routes. It often means you can gain skills that the rest of your 'competitors' won't have. If everyone went to the same training session and all followed it exactly, then we'd all be exactly the same, and that doesn't move us forward at all!

    Quote Originally Posted by ppentertainments View Post
    Oh and fees – forget about aiming for a certain amount, improve yourself and learn and the money side will look after itself (well that and a good accountant lol).
    I get what you're saying, but the money side won't look after itself until you ASK for more money. To achieve a higher fee, you have to put your prices up. It won't magically increase by itself!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Imagine View Post
    I was wrong, of course. I'd just taken the wrong advises.




    Sorry, carry on
    Last edited by Marc J; 26-10-2017 at 01:04 PM.

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