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Thread: Are we starting to overanalyse this....???

  1. #1
    Imagine's Avatar
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    Default Are we starting to overanalyse this....???

    I downloaded Mixed In Key today....it's still churning it's way through my hard drive 12 hours later and my main playout is decidedly hot as a result (I've NEVER known the MacBook's fan to kick in!)

    Let me explain a little more clearly....

    Mixed in Key will analyse your music collection for various things such as "Key" (if you're into the whole harmonic mixing thing) and "energy level". i.e. it's supposed to make your track selections flow more smoothly.

    OK thought I....if it improves performance I'm willing to learn....sort of....

    What in the name of all that's Holy is this Witchcraft?

    Apparently you're supposed to mix music in similar or same "keys"...i.e. if the track playing on deck 1 is in A# then the track on deck 2 about to fill the floor should be in either A# (which is B Flat), G or C. OK - I studied music...I sort of understand harmonics...but really????

    Add to that, you should also have the same "energy level"...I get that, and roughly the same BPM (+/- 10 BPM)

    Now the energy level thing makes absolute sense! it's very similar tracks (with the exception of the key)
    I tried the whole "mixing in key"/"energy level" thing tonight...it doesn't work to my untrained ears with 30+ years under the belt.

    Now call me a cynic...but most of my gigs are weddings where it really DOESN'T matter if you're out of key or going to a BPM/energy level that's +/- 10 so long as everything flows in some sort of sane order.

    Maybe some of you can prove me wrong...I' ve NEVER had a complaint about my track order/mixing in the past...
    It just feels like we're trying to make this whole DJing thing very clinical and the customer doesn't actually notice...or maybe that's just me?

  2. #2

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    The one hard & fast thing I've learned about music programming over the years is that there are no absolutes. You can follow like with like & fail. You can flit around genres, tempos & energy levels like no tomorrow & still win sometimes. There are actually DJs out there who don't even know what music programming is - their sets are absolute cluster.. er.. messes - and yet...

    I've long thought that a track working isn't so much because of what it is, or what you just played but more about the whole picture. Where've you been so far? How did you get here?

    Music programming isn't a programmable science you can set your watch by. Yes you can predict to some degree what might happen but never take anything for granted. There are lots of people with a vested interest in making DJs redundant with software.

    What a program can't do is look at the people you're playing to & decide maybe the ramp of the night should be cut back a gear or 2, or conversely whether you should take it up a few notches.

    One thing I don't think even mixed in key can do is pick out tracks with similar beat structure which 'work' next to one another. At the end of the day it's just another tool.

    I say anything that helps us stop falling into the trap of always playing songs in the same order can only be a good thing. Oh, you always play Sweet Child Of Mine after Livin' On A Prayer, do you? And it always works? Well no. You can't possibly say that with any real conviction. All you could ever say is it's always worked so far If mixed in key helps find new ways to go, hooray for that program.

  3. #3
    Dinosaur Excalibur's Avatar
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    Chanel 1 fader down, press play on channel 2, channel 2 fader up.
    Channel2 fader down, press play on channel 1, channel 1 fader up.
    Repeat ad nauseam. Simples.
    Last edited by Excalibur; 30-11-2017 at 08:27 AM. Reason: corrected typo
    Excalibur. Older than the average DJ.

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  4. #4
    Jim - Scotland's Party DJ's Avatar
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    I've actually got quite a high level of traditional musical training - in a previous life I was grade 8 on the guitar (and then I realised that DJs are the ones who make money ) but I find harmonic mixing a bit of a pain.

    For a start I don't get what the 1s and 2s and As and Bs stand for so I have VDJ set to the actual keys - which are very often wrong. I'm not sure which algorithms or patterns they're analysing but whilst some of them are bang on, a lot of them are WAY off - minor keys tagged as major, major as minor, out by 5 or 6 steps.

    That puts me off for a start - I'm not going to go through every song working out the key and changing it manually.

    Apart from that, as you've quite rightly pointed out - it doesn't really matter for weddings - I can and have mixed wedding and party sets for a whole night if needed and often you come across some really cool harmonic mixes on the fly but the last time I did that was well over 18 months ago so I'm not falling over myself to make it a solid component of my performance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
    Chanel 1 fader down, press play on channel 2, channel 2 fader up.
    Channel2 fader down, press play on channel 1, channel 1 fader up.
    Repeat ad nauseam. Simples.
    WHAT - no crossover
    Semi-Retired Multi Award Winning DJ

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    I mix at most gigs no matter what. I do this to maintain the flow of music & keep people dancing as much as possible. I'm not talking about long running beatmatched transitions here but moving cleanly from track to track. There are times I'll let a track end or start naturally & of course I don't do nasty tricks like trying to match a 128bpm song with a 105bpm track (It's actually possible but rarely works on a musical level!).

    Again it's just a tool in my arsenal & it sometimes draws comments from punters who recognise what I'm doing. It's not generally men who comment either which I find odd.

    I use loops & hotcues, sometimes playing a break from well into a track, looped so I can do a transition & then I'll hop back to the start to go into the track proper. Is it all really necessary? For me, yes & I always always always keep my eye on whether it's relevant to do so.

    Re playout software misidentifying musical keys & tempo... For sure it doesn't always get it right. That's what our ears (and headphones!) are for. I've been known to key shift a semitone to things to blend, but never any more than that.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by ppentertainments View Post
    WHAT - no crossover
    Just let automix do it. Sound awful like a mobile DJ should!

  8. #8
    Dinosaur Excalibur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
    Chanel 1 fader down, press play on channel 2, channel 2 fader up.
    Channel2 fader down, press play on channel 1, channel 1 fader up.
    Repeat ad nauseam. Simples.
    Quote Originally Posted by ppentertainments View Post
    WHAT - no crossover
    My dear friend, on a boom stand in front of my mouth, lives a locked and loaded Senny 835. I'm not afraid to use it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nakatomi View Post
    Just let automix do it. Sound awful like a mobile DJ should!
    I've made some car crash joins myself, but not as many as it seems to do!
    Excalibur. Older than the average DJ.

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  9. #9
    ukpartydj's Avatar
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    I personally used mixed I'm key a lot. Now Traktor does the harmonics I use that.

    Give it a proper go, I find it very useful. Often when I stumble on a good transition the software agrees.

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  10. #10
    Jim - Scotland's Party DJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nakatomi View Post
    Re playout software misidentifying musical keys & tempo... For sure it doesn't always get it right. That's what our ears (and headphones!) are for. I've been known to key shift a semitone to things to blend, but never any more than that.
    Give me a guitar and a couple of bars and I can get you the key and chord progression of pretty much anything anyone will dance at a wedding to but I'm not going to spend time at a gig dicking around trying to key match a tune because VDJ can't do it, I've seen songs be out by 7+ steps before - if it was good enough to only be 1 or 2 out then software like mixed in key would be redundant as anyone could fix that on the fly.

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