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Thread: Help, my DJ has cancelled/let me down!

  1. #21
    Imagine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pe7e View Post
    Not to mention the funding, where's the cash coming from? a few £'s a year subscription will not be anywhere near sufficient, the whole idea's a pipe dream. It will never work while 16 year old spotty Herbert's can start a mobile disco business with nothing more that a couple of hundred quid spent on eBay and a hard drive full of pirated MP3's
    And THERE is where anything like this would need to, and indeed COULD differentiate between the have-a-go's with the hooky music collection and bargain basement PA, and those of us who spend a fortune getting the job right (not just with kit, although that's important, but also with training and learning etc.).

    Yes, any Herbert CAN go to Fleabay and be in business for beer money (Gawd knows there's enough of them on my patch at the moment). BUT, I also work alongside a lot of professionals in this area (some of them multi-award winning DJs), and its us who would be prepared to pay into this sort of thing if it was going to reap results with the public in identifying the difference between someone who does this properly and professionally, and those who will spend the Saturday afternoon down the pub instead of at the wedding they'd got booked up.

    Maybe some sort of vetting and membership system such (as already mentioned - Equity), or even the Showmans' Guild.
    It'd cost a fortune to setup and administer, but my thinking is that there ARE those of us out here doing a "proper job" that would happily pay into such a scheme.

  2. #22
    Jim - Scotland's Party DJ's Avatar
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    Sorry lads, I'm totally over the idea of anything like this a. happening or b. being effective.

    I dunno what the group meets are like down south (though I have an inkling they're exactly the same) but up here you have Amp DJ which on paper is well meaning, pruports to "up the game" and really could make a difference (a simple way to limit the arseholes would be to demand proof of a UTC before being allowed membership...) whereas the reality of it is that the group and meets are largely populated by the same kind of throat cutting useless wasters we should be hounding out of the industry - I've long given up on trying to help the vast majority of people actually up their game because the simple truth is - what we do isn't rocket science, to do it good doesn't actually take much more than some common sense, integrity and the desire to give your clients a good service - that's pretty much the nuts and bolts of it, do feel free to correct me but I doubt you'll be able to add anything substantial on top of that, so essentially what it boils down to is that the job is so easy and the barriers to entry are so low that people who are letting down clients, buying cracked software and hooky drives and going out with crap gear and no back up aren't doing it because they don't know any better or haven't been given any guidance, it's because they simply don't care.

    Flipside - I was invited into a small group of a dozen or so (I think we're nearing 20 now) of decent, hardworking, pro minded DJs up here - unlike the sid groups, we all, quite literally are, each other's competition but you know what - it's the most helpful and beneficial group I've ever been a member of because we all know we do a good job and provide a great service so we don't mind keeping it "in house" so to speak when passing on gig details, load in info, lending gear or giving advice.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim - Scotland's Party DJ View Post
    Flipside - I was invited into a small group of a dozen or so (I think we're nearing 20 now) of decent, hardworking, pro minded DJs up here - unlike the sid groups, we all, quite literally are, each other's competition but you know what - it's the most helpful and beneficial group I've ever been a member of because we all know we do a good job and provide a great service so we don't mind keeping it "in house" so to speak when passing on gig details, load in info, lending gear or giving advice.
    Funny enough - I'm friendly and work with quite a few of those types down here. Yes, we're rivals and working in the same area, but at the same time we all respect each other for what we do and how we do it. There's none of the willy-waving "my speakers are better than your speakers" or "I earn three thousand pounds a night" - we all do what we do very well and work with each other.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imagine View Post
    Funny enough - I'm friendly and work with quite a few of those types down here. Yes, we're rivals and working in the same area, but at the same time we all respect each other for what we do and how we do it. There's none of the willy-waving "my speakers are better than your speakers" or "I earn three thousand pounds a night" - we all do what we do very well and work with each other.
    And that goes back to what I said about wanting to do a good job.

    I give advice to a few up and coming guys and allow them to shadow me because they're genuinely interested in getting better and willing to put the graft in to get there, 95+% aren't and just want it spoon fed to them.

    I've been called everything from a stirrer to a bully on these groups for calling the idiots out on their BS, I'm willing to help those that are deserving of it but it's not my responsibility (or anyone elses) to drag the idiots up by the scruff of the neck, there's plenty of work at my fee out there without me, you guys or my pals in the small group advocating for widespread recognition of the industry.

  5. #25
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    Wow, this one took off, and elicited some great posts, thanks lads. Haven't really had time to return to this before, so here comes a bumper bundle of multiquotes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Smyth View Post
    I work on the basis of "I'm not available, but I'll introduce you to John Doe who could be of help" and then step away. I don't handle the booking, and I don't expect a 'drink' from it (Karma will work itself out eventually).
    As you say Benny, I think some folk find it's pleasant to start passing work and creaming off a few bob, but fraught with danger. I work the same way as you do, and yes, Karma will come round again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim - Scotland's Party DJ View Post

    I don't know how people can look at themselves in the mirror if they wilfully let people down.
    Nor I. Sadly, others appear to do it with ease.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imagine View Post
    Sorry - I don't understand how they do it. Once a client's booked - that's it. I've often had the opportunity for a higher paying night in the past and it's always been a case of "sorry - already booked".
    And a case in point, I quoted a month ago for a nice wedding in a lovely venue ( one of the most breathtaking I've ever worked in, Sun Pavilion, Harrogate ) and heard nothing. Took a short hours teen party as a diary filler at a perfectly acceptable price, only for the wedding to ask to book. Well over a hundred quid down on that deal, but hey ho.

    Quote Originally Posted by ppentertainments View Post
    I don't think it is only DJs to blame.

    I have had 2 last minute calls over the past few weeks - on the wedding day - because they had forgot to book a DJ.
    I know a lot disagree, but out of all the wedding suppliers DJs are generally at the bottom of the list, if not fallen off the list, and silly as it sounds a lot of people do forget to book one until the last minute.

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Jules View Post

    This does go to show, once again, just how far down the list the DJ is and just how little engagement with a DJ some couples expect to have.
    Agreed. Necessary evil, sometimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pe7e View Post
    Not to mention the funding, where's the cash coming from? a few £'s a year subscription will not be anywhere near sufficient, the whole idea's a pipe dream. It will never work while 16 year old spotty Herbert's can start a mobile disco business with nothing more that a couple of hundred quid spent on eBay and a hard drive full of pirated MP3's
    And that's the biggest problem. A customer last night took one look at the laptop, and suggested I'd get all my music from various free sources. Err, no mate, it's bought and paid for. More perception problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim - Scotland's Party DJ View Post
    Sorry lads, I'm totally over the idea of anything like this a. happening or b. being effective.



    Flipside - I was invited into a small group of a dozen or so (I think we're nearing 20 now) of decent, hardworking, pro minded DJs up here - unlike the sid groups, we all, quite literally are, each other's competition but you know what - it's the most helpful and beneficial group I've ever been a member of because we all know we do a good job and provide a great service so we don't mind keeping it "in house" so to speak when passing on gig details, load in info, lending gear or giving advice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Imagine View Post
    Funny enough - I'm friendly and work with quite a few of those types down here. Yes, we're rivals and working in the same area, but at the same time we all respect each other for what we do and how we do it. There's none of the willy-waving "my speakers are better than your speakers" or "I earn three thousand pounds a night" - we all do what we do very well and work with each other.
    I'm not too sure about the word " competition ". While a lot of the folk I know are indeed fishing in the same pond, I regard them totally as allies, and not opposition. The help and advice offered is beyond price.
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  6. #26
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    There will always be emergency situations caused by illness or accidents but many of these last minute enquiries are indeed about customers not booking reliable dj's. This is what SEDA was set up to combat over 40 years ago and to some degree it has done so. Originally it was a restricted membership only open to those endorsed by fellow members or prepared to undergo a vetting procedure but unfortunately (in my opinion) that was allowed to lapse and the association became focussed on equipment and numbers. More recently however it has become more about educating its members and I do believe the nes committee is thinking about returning to its original raison d'etre. It has though continued over the long period of its existence enabled genuine emergencies to be covered by fellow members. I remember personally when I got rushed into hospital my wife was able to get fellow members who were free to cover my gigs - and thats how it should be and avoids those last minute emergency calls from clients who have been let down. Over the years SEDA has arbitrated in disputes and investigated members who have had complaints made against them by other members or the public and has imposed warnings and even expulsions where required.
    One a side note I do recall one occasion a few years ago where another well known dj asked me to cover a local wedding for him. There was not much info available even though it had been booked in advance. He paid me in advance of the gig as he had already got the money. Eventually just before the gig he asked me to pretend to be him and said the bride and groom would not know the difference as he hadnt met them. It transpired that he had another gig AND had charged them far more than he paid me to cover it about a week before the event. I made SEDA members aware of his behaviour and I made no attempt to impersonate him at the gig which went off well.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by theoloyla View Post
    Eventually just before the gig he asked me to pretend to be him and said the bride and groom would not know the difference as he hadnt met them.
    Oh Theo, over the years, I've been many different people! Similar scenarios, but perhaps I don't quite have your principles.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
    I'm not too sure about the word " competition ". While a lot of the folk I know are indeed fishing in the same pond, I regard them totally as allies, and not opposition. The help and advice offered is beyond price.
    I use the term purely in a business sense.

    I'm not up against Ronnie Ropelights and his £150 budgets for work so those guys (and their clients) have no impact on the sphere I operate in) the guys in the group however who all pretty much specialise in £500+ weddings, whilst friends and colleagues, economically and in a business sense are who I'm competing against for bookings.

    Quote Originally Posted by theoloyla View Post
    There will always be emergency situations caused by illness or accidents but many of these last minute enquiries are indeed about customers not booking reliable dj's. This is what SEDA was set up to combat over 40 years ago and to some degree it has done so. Originally it was a restricted membership only open to those endorsed by fellow members or prepared to undergo a vetting procedure but unfortunately (in my opinion) that was allowed to lapse and the association became focussed on equipment and numbers. More recently however it has become more about educating its members and I do believe the nes committee is thinking about returning to its original raison d'etre. It has though continued over the long period of its existence enabled genuine emergencies to be covered by fellow members. I remember personally when I got rushed into hospital my wife was able to get fellow members who were free to cover my gigs - and thats how it should be and avoids those last minute emergency calls from clients who have been let down. Over the years SEDA has arbitrated in disputes and investigated members who have had complaints made against them by other members or the public and has imposed warnings and even expulsions where required.
    One a side note I do recall one occasion a few years ago where another well known dj asked me to cover a local wedding for him. There was not much info available even though it had been booked in advance. He paid me in advance of the gig as he had already got the money. Eventually just before the gig he asked me to pretend to be him and said the bride and groom would not know the difference as he hadnt met them. It transpired that he had another gig AND had charged them far more than he paid me to cover it about a week before the event. I made SEDA members aware of his behaviour and I made no attempt to impersonate him at the gig which went off well.
    I would love West of Scotland Amp to arbitrate but unfortunately when any issues arise - many ethical, plenty financial and some verging on criminal, it's either swept under the rug or a case of "don't air your dirty laundry in public, we're meant to be professionals here."

    That's why so many of them don't like me - I'm one of the few people who is quite willing and prepared to call someone out publicly - right is right.
    Last edited by Excalibur; 02-06-2018 at 03:36 PM. Reason: merged posts

  9. #29
    Dinosaur Excalibur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim - Scotland's Party DJ View Post

    That's why so many of them don't like me - I'm one of the few people who is quite willing and prepared to call someone out publicly - right is right.

    Not like you, Jim? I find that hard to believe, they're obviously heathens and imbeciles! Why you're naught but a little ray of sunshine.

    I too am well known for my predilection for calling a spade a manually operated soil inverting implement.

    Right, certain observations here have given me food for thought, and I believe it justifies its own thread, maybe even with a poll. When I've created it, I'll put a link here, meanwhile, keep up the good work, lads. This one has already been pure gold.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim - Scotland's Party DJ View Post
    Sorry lads, I'm totally over the idea of anything like this a. happening or b. being effective.

    I dunno what the group meets are like down south
    If we used the HDA as a microcosm, it works perfectly as we have a near harmonious group of DJ from all levels (30 members), we all get on superbly, but then again we all know each other in person. A lot of the members have all upped their game tremendously (including Colin on here) and have seen themselves go from £300 DJ's to £500-600 DJ's. I suppose they see us doing it and think "hey they are not Calvin Hariss, I can achieve that". With the exception of a couple of members, they has come on well and each member now shares page one on Google too. The ones who are still a bit cheaper tend to mop up the lower paying leads we get through, so it works fine.

    Whether it would work for a large organisation who knows, everyone told me 10 years ago that the HDA would not work as we are all competitors, but I carried on anyway with largely positive results. I would say its the one of the most friendly larger DJ group out there (this forum is also great). Here are the rules I have stuck by:

    1: Be organised, but don't taker things too seriously (a let down of a few larger organisations) - have fun!
    2: Keep the doors tightly closed - vet any members. If its regarded as clicky then great, when your in its not at all.
    3: charge a fee for membership, no one runs it or makes a profit from it (although I do all the work).
    4: manage the odd problem with good common sense diplomacy (only had 2-3 issues!!)
    5: Meet in person. If you know the face you will be much nicer to someone.

    It would be tremendously hard and I have seen a lot of idiots in the industry and have been called "an NADJ wxxker" at BPM which I found highly rude (plus all the idiots on MDN), , so I would lean on Theos vast experience of this matter, plus the above as It would need an income stream and member fees are the obvious option. This has been done (NADJ, SEDA, AMP & MDN) and as far as I can see has not changed anything. I personally can't see an angle to take on it other than a smaller type of group that only concentrates on the the higher end DJ (with proven examples). The higher earners should theoretically want to (and be able) pay for this sort of thing if they can see that, it would have:

    - Sufficient clout educating prospective clients - information pages that brides go too all the time.
    - Get them high paying work - good leads & networking.
    - Decent legal advice & some form of Equity-type reassurance.
    - Discounts on suppliers & other industry things like PM Conference
    - improve the industry over time and change the ethos of DJ's
    - proper professional weekend get-togethers - like Promobile Conference (income back to group)
    - online sharing of ideas, issues and work etc.
    - most important - a nice atmosphere and a feeling of being in something important!
    - head office with proper trained and designated full time staff!! will be taken seriously then!

    If that worked with, say 50-100 DJ's, then my guess is that others would join in as its clearly a good thing. I think it would go the same way as the all day MC host concept has. I remember when there were only about 20-30 of us doing it (properly), now there are loads of DJ's (100's??) that also MC because they can see the DJ's that were at their level now doing all this cool stuff, earning a lot more money and being happier people. Social media has helped this tremendously.

    New members would be judged by a panel of 5 DJ's and also normal people (i.e. the perfect client)
    The vetting procedure might look like this.

    - 5 years experiences minimum of 200 events covered.
    - website with video & photographic content judged
    - 5 clients contacted & evidence of real testimonials (hard one that)
    - regular venues contacted to ask about the DJ (ideal for resident DJ's)
    - the DJ must be known and have seen working by at least 3 existing members
    - the member put to the group and any objections privately dealt with and assessed (although the 5 take overall rule)

    If I new that I would be in an organisation like and it would work, then then I would happily pay £100-200 a year for it. With an initial (50 members) upper limit of £10,000 thats more than enough money to get things going. get 500 members paying £200 a year (lets face it thats 1/4 of one event for a lot of members) thats £100,000 a year, which can go a very long way if invested in the right areas!!

    (New website coming soon): http://dj-alliance.co.uk

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim - Scotland's Party DJ View Post

    I'm not up against Ronnie Ropelights
    Great name that, beats the sid one.
    Last edited by yourdj; 03-06-2018 at 10:35 AM.
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