Extremes of Disco quality and market.

[Excalibur]

This one has come out of the responses to my " dj's cancelling " thread. Comments on there have led me to question where I operate in the market. I've always considered myself firmly centre ground, but I'm now wondering if like that ground is being shot from under my feet?

We have many on here who seem to be operating in the top end of the market, with fees regularly over £500. I think there's little doubt that they're providing value for money, well done them. Even with a following wind, I can't achieve the levels of detail they offer in certain areas. At best, I'd claim to be well up in the middle section of the market.

However, I make no secret of the fact that I'm prepared to get down and dirty in the lower echelons of the market, to fill my diary. Even then, I feel to misquote Ms Safka ( Google it, if you don't know, young 'uns. Then listen to some of her stuff ), " they're only putting a nickel in, but getting a dollar song". Obviously, the great unwashed see more DJs in the bottom end of the market, and perhaps our low status in their eyes is because of what they see often.

So, the question. Yes, there is a question, the doddering old fool isn't simply rambling pointlessly. The lower end of the market is awash with DJs, and by definition, the top end is a far smaller market share. Is the middle ground disappearing? Are clients either paying top dollar for top end DJs, or going cheap and ( hopefully ) cheerful? Is my market of mid price work dwindling? Discuss.

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

I don't think so - the market bears what it bears and I'd imagine the majority of clients actually fall into the "middle" bracket where the idea of paying over £500 for a DJ is ridiculous to them but they don't want stuck with some coked out banger playing through his dad's Awai stereo.

I'm actually seeing, certainly on the bridal forums, a much higher percentage of guys coming in at the £300-400 quid range than previously and I think this is largely down to them realising that theyre worth more than the driftwood but they know they're not quite at the same level as the £500+ crew.

And that rings true for most services and products if you think about it - most people will choose from the middle ground: I recently bought a safety razor - I wasn't going to buy the dirt cheap Chinese gumf that will cut me to shreds but I also didn't see the value in spending big bucks on a boutique model so I went for a decent quality at a decent price.

[Excalibur]

I'm actually seeing, certainly on the bridal forums, a much higher percentage of guys coming in at the £300-400 quid range than previously and I think this is largely down to them realising that theyre worth more than the driftwood but they know they're not quite at the same level as the £500+ crew.
.

Don't know about bridal forums, every time I've looked they've been complaining of the affrontery of DJs to break the £200 barrier! My experience seems to be at odds with yours, Jim. We need more input, two folk disagreeing isn't statistically useful.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

You could possibly look at it this way (and no, don't worry, I am definitely NOT getting into the whole "you wouldn't get that around here" type thing.....saying that though, I'd put money on it being mentioned at some point?).

The guys and girls that are 'top end' as you put it, and commanding the higher fees...... why is it that they are commanding those higher fees? Is it because they are turning up with the best equipment? Is it because they have years and years of experience and have made a name for themselves? Are they getting top notch money, just for providing the Disco entertainment?

Or, is it because they are providing multiple services for the booking and are out all day?

Apologies if I am not managing to get my point across clearly, it has been a common thing lately.

I've said it many times over the years on this forum, so one more time isn't going to hurt..... I have never been one to mention prices. I don't like the whole winkle waving thing etc.... But, when I first went out as a full-time self-employed DJ, I simply provided Disco entertainment...that's all. I'd been doing the job for a number of years before I went full-time, and I'd made a name for myself. I guess you could say I had a decent reputation as being a good DJ. I would never say anything like that myself, I'm no ego maniac.
So, when I went out on the road after confirming my first booking, I didn't pick a figure out of the air....I'd done my research and pitched myself towards the higher of the middle ground (if that makes sense?). As the months went by, I got tons of work. I was out every weekend and that's exactly how I wanted it to be.

A friend of mine who ran his own business told me that I was underselling myself. I disagreed because I was happy, more than happy with what I was getting. He asked me what made me different from everybody else, and if there are a number of others out there charging the same, what makes it worth booking me?
He advised me to up my price, not just by £25.00 or something, but by another £100.00 just like that, to test the water. I did so for the next enquiry and they didn't want to know, neither did the next, or the next one after that. To be honest, I knew that they weren't my customers anyway because they were looking for cheap options. Even if I had quoted the price I was going out for, they would have said it was too expensive.

However, the next customer DID book me at the higher price. I was taken aback to be honest. I thought to myself "I'm still doing what I was doing before, yet I am getting paid more money for doing it.....strange!?"
When I received some feedback after the event, one of the things the customer said was "He was a bit more expensive than other DJ's, but he was quality and so it was worth the price".... That's when I thought to myself, I am sticking to my guns and that's what I did, I didn't look back.

To those that are bothered what tier of the DJ scale they are on (I'm not), I guess I went up a few notches and was probably looked at as one of the more pricier DJ's in the area. I wasn't offering any other services at the time, just me, my equipment and my experience.

When I started providing things like Uplighting, Photo Projection etc.... I generally offered the services if I knew it was going to be very easy to do and I enhanced the price I was getting. I guess (again), that I was then up in the higher regions when it came to price, but I was still only doing evening gigs, not all day.

Yes, if you are providing lots of different services and all day stuff etc, you may well be getting top notch money. Sometimes the customer likes that if they can get everything from the same person / supplier. If you are commanding very good money, just providing an evening disco because of your experience and reputation (ok...and where you are based....ouch, I said it!), then fair play to you.

I've confused myself with that lot, but I hope you get what I am saying.

[Imagine]

You'll never get that round 'ere!!!

Actually - that's complete and utter bs - and I've proven it.

Unlike a LOT of DJs in this neck of the woods, my prices are on my website. I've got nothing to hide - and it seems to work.
Until a couple of years ago, I thought nothing of going out for £250 for the evening, regardless of the party. I was fighting with a lot of the lower end operators who were rocking up with battered kit and a pair of QTX 15's, whilst I was going out with top end kit.

So (and our own Gavin persuaded me the first time), I upped my price by £100. Simples. Bookings still came in (I was only taking evening only gigs at the time).

Then it nudged up bit by bit to £400 for the evening....bookings dropped off a little bit and I thought I'd peaked. I started offering part day (wedding breakfast onwards) and ceremony services as well.

However....I did a part day wedding a couple of weeks ago for what I thought was a cracking £700. The people I did it for aren't the type of customer I want to attract (that one's in the members area), so completely and utterly shattered and pd off with how the day had gone, I increased my prices by £125 for evening only (taking me to £525), and by £100 for the part day and all day jobbies (and I think there's still room for more).

I don't do uplighting, venue dressing, chair covers, photo booths, pop-corn, ice-cream, candy floss, chocolate fountains and all that malarky.....I literally provide the disco side of things. Hell....I don't even do Karaoke (because I can't stand it).

I took 5 bookings last week (3 for evening only and 2 for part day), having been witnessing a bit of a dead spell on incoming enquiries.

Is it coincidence, or is it down to the increase in price and perceived value? You tell me.

As Jim says, most customers look to the best they can afford without being silly (the mid to high ground as opposed to the budget....although there will ALWAYS be customers looking for the cheapest possible price and there are plenty of people out there to service those).

The big money is in the all-day services. They're not always the most pleasant of gigs to do because they're a very, very long day. They're also something a LOT of the competition don't offer.

I'm now somewhere in the top-league as far as pricing goes in this area (I'm not the dearest yet.....it'll come though). I just do what I do well, pay attention to what the customer's after, make sure everything is done as good as it can be from presentation and selection of kit to my performance on the night, and do my job as I always have.

One thing I WILL say (because this aspect worried me when I increased my prices)....the customers at the top end of the pay scale are a LOT nicer to deal with at times. Yes, you get those who have paid a lot of money and expect a lot in return. BUT, there's also more respect at those functions as well.

To quote a cosmetics company - I charge what I charge "because I'm worth it!"

[Excalibur]

Wayne, I'm overjoyed for you, but you haven't answered the question.

Middle ground disappearing?

[Imagine]

Wayne, I'm overjoyed for you, but you haven't answered the question.

Middle ground disappearing?

Sorry old chap - doing too many things at the same time

Middle ground disappearing? No I don't think so.

I think it's becoming more and more crowded and harder for customers to distinguish between those that operate in that arena (let's face it, we ALL look pretty much the same lately as far as kit goes.....even Sidney is rolling with a truss-booth these days).

Because of that, I think customers are looking to the higher end of the middle ground (well if they're charging more, they must be better and more experienced psychologically).

[Excalibur]

Sorry old chap - doing too many things at the same time

Middle ground disappearing? No I don't think so.

I think it's becoming more and more crowded and harder for customers to distinguish between those that operate in that arena (let's face it, we ALL look pretty much the same lately as far as kit goes.....even Sidney is rolling with a truss-booth these days).

Because of that, I think customers are looking to the higher end of the middle ground (well if they're charging more, they must be better and more experienced psychologically).

You know Wayne, you've almost convinced me to put my prices up, seriously.


I'll break that £150 ceiling if it's the last thing I do.

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Wayne, I'm overjoyed for you, but you haven't answered the question.

Middle ground disappearing?

No, I think it's just shifting.

The cheap as chips guys are still cheap as chips, the higher end guys have always been the ones pushing the envelope on pricing and the middle guys are realising that whilst they might not be able to get higher end money yet, they can certainly demand more than a score or two more than tony 2 decks.

Certainly the higher end guys up here charge based on their 'brand' I suppose and service - none of them to my knowledge throw in freebies and with the exception of a few who try to do lots of all day shots, most are booking £500+ for evening disco only.

[yourdj]

The big money is in the all-day services.

Certainly a way to make more money, but (speaking from someone that has learnt his stripes as an all day DJ) I am unconvinced by that now you know as a lot of the MC's and even all day DJ only are putting in a considerable amount of preparation and then doing 10-12 hours on the day. One of the major DJ/MC's quotes about 50 hours in total for an average wedding when all the stories, quizzes and such like are all premed up, but I would say about 30 on average. I know they are struggling to make £2000 a day for that, so I guess that an average DJ & MC goes out at just over £1000.

Although I feel I am not myself when on stage and very good at what I do, I personally find the all days very stressful (but also very fun) as so much is riding on you pulling it off. Its a lot of responsibility and if you take off all the other parts of the day (ceremony, evening, extras, set up etc), then my guess is the £3000 MC's are only charging £300-500 for that bit, which is not enough given the above reasons (I have lost sleep pondering over upcoming weddings and sometimes been very removed from my family). Suddenly sitting in the dark watching a toastmaster do it (albeit very badly) makes things a lot easier.

I did a 4 hour event last night and provided a DJ set, phootbooth & 43 inch screen with a pre-made slideshow. The slideshow took about 45 mins and the music/prep took about 30 mins. I went above and beyond the call of duty on this and have already had a very nice thank you email from the client so they are more than happy and I would think would perhaps had paid more money, but I am happy with my prices.

Having a family, a new business has made me try and maximise the evenings as i am completely knackered having to get up at 6am and can't do them on a regular basis now (although it depends on what else I have that weekend), so I have encouraged more upsells on uplighting, fog, dance floors etc. etc.

I charged £1,143 for last night, but as you say a good proportion is in the Photo Booth, which you don't do. Thats £66 an hour (all day at 30 hrs) vs £190 an hour (6 hours).

Let's not kid ourselves that £500+ for an evening disco is high end.

It's mid market.

Agreed totally (especially down the south) - most the HDA are £500-600 minimum now and we are nothing amazing (I charge £590 just DJ if your interested)! I rarely go under that unless its a private function with no meeting required (especially house parties as they are easy).

As mentioned the triangle goes narrower the higher you go, i think if I offered a more bespoke service (i.e. ditch the multi op just little old me) then i am confident that (without any extras) I could easily charge £8-900 for the evening. Perhaps more. Add in a number of extras as standard then maybe even one package that runs at £1,500-2000 for the evening. If you combined that with limited availability (i.e. one wedding per weekend, first come first serve) then you could potentially have a waiting list or people checking your availability before they book the venue (had that twice this year, amazing feeling). Double chat cost for all day and it starts too look like a much better deal. Man £3-4000 would be nice 2-3 weddings a month!!! Agreed it would be a lot more work per wedding, but not where near as much as 10 weddings at £700 average!!

As it happens as Gary has said, I am more than happy with the amount of work I have and the price i am charging. I had a very dramatic loss of work Jan-Apr, which shows I am attracting the summer, premium payers, which leaves me a few months each year to focus on my photography business. The only thing I want to do next Jan is add uplighting as standard and up the cost by £100 as all my DJ's have it now. Might add some all inclusive options, like a Photo Booth and 2 extras etc.).

To quote a cosmetics company - I charge what I charge "because I'm worth it!"

This one has come out of the responses to my " dj's cancelling " thread. Comments on there have led me to question where I operate in the market. I've always considered myself firmly centre ground, but I'm now wondering if like that ground is being shot from under my feet?

We have many on here who seem to be operating in the top end of the market, with fees regularly over £500. I think there's little doubt that they're providing value for money, well done them. Even with a following wind, I can't achieve the levels of detail they offer in certain areas. At best, I'd claim to be well up in the middle section of the market.

However, I make no secret of the fact that I'm prepared to get down and dirty in the lower echelons of the market, to fill my diary. Even then, I feel to misquote Ms Safka ( Google it, if you don't know, young 'uns. Then listen to some of her stuff ), " they're only putting a nickel in, but getting a dollar song". Obviously, the great unwashed see more DJs in the bottom end of the market, and perhaps our low status in their eyes is because of what they see often.

So, the question. Yes, there is a question, the doddering old fool isn't simply rambling pointlessly. The lower end of the market is awash with DJs, and by definition, the top end is a far smaller market share. Is the middle ground disappearing? Are clients either paying top dollar for top end DJs, or going cheap and ( hopefully ) cheerful? Is my market of mid price work dwindling? Discuss.

To actually answer the question (I ran out of editing time), I actually think (and it was proficised by Mark Walsh some years back) that there is the start of a drift in the markets and the DJ's charging less and providing an equally crap service to boot will be left to that market and the other guys will slowly go the other way? This is not in the money they charge but in the level and types of services they are offering although the two run in tandem. Will the DJ morph into a separate type of industry who knows? Thats my thoughts on it.

I remember not that long ago in my local area that £500 was almost unheard of, but as a lot more of us locally have been networking then the average price has started to rise too. Let say the average bride or whatever, looks at 5-6 key sites and perhaps a couple of venue recommended suppliers and keeps seeing £500, then that will be the benchmark. In comes a different DJ (lets call him Peter) that provides exactly the same DJ service (on the night), but perhaps with some quirky extras, face to face meeting, detailed planning and to put it bluntly, he is a nice normal person that they would want to invite to their wedding. He could then easily charge more. How much more, who knows. Depends on what your comfortable with as your bookings will very quickly start dropping off. If you loose 50% bookings then you need to charge 50% more and match that with a 50% increase in service somehow??

Having looked at a number of builders recently, thats my opinion based on that. Forgetting what they do and how they do it, most important was that

- they are nice normal people that I feel comfortable with in my home.
- modern builders that don't work in inches, can use a computer and be punctual (I have had it with old schoolers).
- and give me detailed invoicing (especially with materials) & reasonable time frames.
- just be organised and get back to me in good time and not bull-s me after a month!!!
them - "i have been snowed under" me - "well if your that busy to reply to an email then employ a secretary".

Thats worth paying extra for.

Not found anyone I like (as they have all been equally useless) so am doing the work myself this week coming.