Amp Speakers

[groove on discos]

Hi
By the way, I have just got some new speakers, but dont know whether to make the amp more powerful than the speakers, or less powerful?

HELP!
Happy new year!!!!

[Excalibur]

Hi
By the way, I have just got some new speakers, but dont know whether to make the amp more powerful than the speakers, or less powerful?

HELP!
Happy new year!!!!

Search the forum. This has been a very hot (and contentious ) topic more than once.

[groove on discos]

Hi, i have just ordered some speakers with 150w rms continuous power handling, but i have no idea of what wattage amp to put with them. The speakers are 8ohm. Would this amp be ok: [COLOR="Blue"]http://www.soundsavers.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=2467 It is under budget, and 100watts is more than enough for all of the small venues that we are doing. If you have any other suitable amps under £140, maybe one of your old ones, maybe one of your mates? just let me know.

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!

[stez]

my advise is ,never use a higher rated amp than your speaker rating,for example if your speaker rating is 400 watts rms at 8 ohm then get an amp thats rated at that .your speaker will have a max power rating of about 500 watt power max. thats your safety net.
amps are designed to be overdriven (thermal cutout,heat sinks etc,)
speaker coils winding are not, and wont last long when driven to max power.

[Vectis]

Most quality speakers will have a PMPO rating much higher than the RMS rating - some even have a 'program' rating somewhere inbetween like my Peaveys. Therefore they can stand short bursts of overdriving they just can't sustain it.

Now I'm no electronics expert but I've been doing this 25 years without incident and my advice is to use an amp that's approx 1.5 times the RMS rating of your speakers to the relevant impedance. So for a 300W RMS 4R speaker, use an amp capable of about 450W RMS into 4R.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Most quality speakers will have a PMPO rating much higher than the RMS rating - some even have a 'program' rating somewhere inbetween like my Peaveys. Therefore they can stand short bursts of overdriving they just can't sustain it.

Now I'm no electronics expert but I've been doing this 25 years without incident and my advice is to use an amp that's approx 1.5 times the RMS rating of your speakers to the relevant impedance. So for a 300W RMS 4R speaker, use an amp capable of about 450W RMS into 4R.

I agree.

[bluishbob]

my advise is ,never use a higher rated amp than your speaker rating,for example if your speaker rating is 400 watts rms at 8 ohm then get an amp thats rated at that .your speaker will have a max power rating of about 500 watt power max. thats your safety net.
amps are designed to be overdriven (thermal cutout,heat sinks etc,)
speaker coils winding are not, and wont last long when driven to max power.


Sorry to nock you back there, and without getting this debate raging again, but that is a completely wrong piece of advise to give.

To start off with, the theory is that amps should always be run at least the RMS rating, if not more. Peavey suggest matching the amp to the program power, which is 2x the RMS(depending on the manufacturer). (anywhere between RMS and 2x should do fine as VectisVibe said). There is also a risk of over working the amp if you use an amp that is much below the RMS rating of the Speakers.

Secondly, the max power on a 400 watt set of speakers would not be 500watts. On a 400watt RMS pair of speakers, the program would be around 800 watts (is) and the max power would be somewhere around 1600 watts (ish).

[groove on discos]

Thanks guys, one more question. http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=220544&criteria=speaker&doy=1m1 These are the speakers i have. what would be the perfect amp under £130- sorry about the budget, running seriously low on cash! also, would this amp be ok: http://www.soundsavers.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=2467

Thanks

[djsteve10]

That amp would be suitable for them speakers.
At least it will get you started.

[groove on discos]

How long will it be suitable for? how long will the amp hold out with the power of the speakers? Sorry, just anxious,.


Thanks anyway, i will purchase that amp after all

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

[Excalibur]

That amp would be suitable for them speakers.
At least it will get you started.

But I feel it would not be the best match, as it looks a little underpowered to me. My choice, with regards to lowest cost would be:

http://www.djkit.co.uk/product.php?id=92&cat=40

as it has a little bit of future proofing, when you upgrade to Class-D speakers!;)

If funds are really that tight: Under £100 , and a good match, and in a correct size package

http://www.djkit.co.uk/product.php?id=91&cat=40

[A1DL]

That amplifier/speaker combination is not a good match.

The speakers you are looking at are rated 150wrms at 8R and the amplifier is only 100wrms at 8R. You need to get a larger amplifier, look for something around 200w to 300wrms at 8R if you are buying those speakers

Hope this helps

Tony

[Excalibur]

Most quality speakers will have a PMPO rating much higher than the RMS rating - some even have a 'program' rating somewhere inbetween like my Peaveys. Therefore they can stand short bursts of overdriving they just can't sustain it.

Now I'm no electronics expert but I've been doing this 25 years without incident and my advice is to use an amp that's approx 1.5 times the RMS rating of your speakers to the relevant impedance. So for a 300W RMS 4R speaker, use an amp capable of about 450W RMS into 4R.

On a single set of speakers, that is what I'm doing now. When I add the second set, it goes to equal rating, and it seems to work for me. Whatever you use, don't run your amp into clipping, and you've got a good chance of having no problems.

[Excalibur]

That amplifier/speaker combination is not a good match.

The speakers you are looking at are rated 150wrms at 8R and the amplifier is only 100wrms at 8R. You need to get a larger amplifier, look for something around 200w to 300wrms at 8R if you are buying those speakers

Hope this helps

Tony

Agreed totally.

[Tom]

On a single set of speakers, that is what I'm doing now. When I add the second set, it goes to equal rating, and it seems to work for me. Whatever you use, don't run your amp into clipping, and you've got a good chance of having no problems.

agree. :)

a bit off topic but last night i was running my active sub on clip but it was only due to that jungle artist Pendulum. it didnt cut out.

[wigglyrich01]

Hey groove,

That amp would be a bit under powered for your speakers. Your amp should be about 1.5 - 2.5 times the power of your speakers per channel.

this amp would be better suited.
http://www.soundsavers.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=4&products_id=2464

Remember underpowering your speakers can damage both the speakers and amp, with this amp you'll have more headroom.

I've heard Warriror amps are great little amps for the money and very reliable so personally i would go with them but i'm sure they'll be other good suggestions, theres alot out there!

[Excalibur]

Hey groove,

That amp would be a bit under powered for your speakers. Your amp should be about 1.5 - 2.5 times the power of your speakers per channel.

this amp would be better suited.
http://www.soundsavers.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=4&products_id=2464

Remember underpowering your speakers can damage both the speakers and amp, with this amp you'll have more headroom.

I've heard Warriror amps are great little amps for the money and very reliable so personally i would go with them but i'm sure they'll be other good suggestions, theres alot out there!


Check out the replies in this CONCURRENT thread. This was suggested by me as the weapon of choice.

http://www.mobilediscodirectory.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=10291



Particularly this reply :

Quote:
Originally Posted by djsteve10
That amp would be suitable for them speakers.
At least it will get you started.

But I feel it would not be the best match, as it looks a little underpowered to me. My choice, with regards to lowest cost would be:

http://www.djkit.co.uk/product.php?id=92&cat=40

as it has a little bit of future proofing, when you upgrade to Class-D speakers!

If funds are really that tight: Under £100 , and a good match, and in a correct size package

http://www.djkit.co.uk/product.php?id=91&cat=4



Can I feel a merge coming on, Mods?

[Excalibur]

agree. :)

a bit off topic but last night i was running my active sub on clip but it was only due to that jungle artist Pendulum. it didnt cut out.

Thjere's a big difference between a barely flickering glimmer, and a constant blazing beacon!;) :D

Mods: Merge this with other identical open thread ?

[Tom]

Thjere's a big difference between a barely flickering glimmer, and a constant blazing beacon!;) :D

Mods: Merge this with other identical open thread ?

ahh in that case it was flickering.

[Andy Westcott]

I was going to keep out of this discussion, but there is some misleading and potentially damaging advice being given here.

For no particular reason I'll single this one out:
"Remember underpowering your speakers can damage both the speakers and amp"

Sorry, but that is untrue. Please explain how, in electronic terms, that can possibly occur?

The best bit of advice was that given early on by Stez - use an amp rated equal to or lower than the speakers.

Let's remember here - Groove On Discos is obviously not familiar with the technicalities of power ratings as his question suggests, so needs the equipment to be fool-proof.

Those familiar with the equipment and its capabilities may well get away with using an amp rated double the speaker's rating, but that is simply because they don't have those amps running at full tilt - that way the speakers survive.

In inexperienced hands it is better to make it difficult to damage the speakers by mistake or operator error, and this can only be done by ensuring the speakers can safely take anything the amp can throw at it.

And before anyone quotes about clipping damaging speakers, go and read up on some theory, rather than reading advertising waffle or statements written by those who don't know the subject - there is far too much misinformation thrown about concerning this very simple issue.

For the record, I use 300 watts a side into my bass bins, each rated at 600 watts AES. I could get a bigger amp if I wanted to but I don't need it. What I most certainly am not doing is damaging my speakers!

The maths are very simple, and there is no black magic at work here, only the heating effect of an electric current.

[Jiggles]

a clipping signal due to the speakers being under powered will damage speakers.

[Danno13]

Not technically correct.

The way I understand it, is that if you have a smaller amp its more tempting to push the master on the mixer and can therefore clip the inputs on the amp, thereby sending an amplified clipped signal to the speakers which is bad news.

If you have a bigger amp, you're not as tempted to push the mixer master up and won't have the same problems. You can still however push too much power into the speakers, and you'll hear this as distortion so can always turn it down!

So technically underpowering your speakers isn't damaging, its just it can potentially cause more problems than overpowering them, as the first case is far worse for speakers and amp than the second.

[TonyB]

I agree with Andy. There are too many urban myths surrounding speaker/amp power requirements.

A clipping signal at any power level will damage speakers. It is not specific to amps that have less power. There should be no additional temptation to push underpowered speakers into clipping as anyone with any intelligence will know to back off if the clipping lights start to come on - thats what they are there for.

If the amp is more powerful than the speakers then there is no warning if you are overdriving them. I would say there is more temptation to overdrive speakers with a more powerful amp because you have no way of knowing how much power is being pushed into the speakers. If you want to push the volume up, then there will be no warning until the speakers go pop.

Overdriven speakers will not always distort so that is not a good way of establishing if they are being damaged or not.

[Excalibur]

I was going to keep out of this discussion, but there is some misleading and potentially damaging advice being given here.

For no particular reason I'll single this one out:
"Remember underpowering your speakers can damage both the speakers and amp"

Sorry, but that is untrue. Please explain how, in electronic terms, that can possibly occur?

The best bit of advice was that given early on by Stez - use an amp rated equal to or lower than the speakers.

Let's remember here - Groove On Discos is obviously not familiar with the technicalities of power ratings as his question suggests, so needs the equipment to be fool-proof.

Those familiar with the equipment and its capabilities may well get away with using an amp rated double the speaker's rating, but that is simply because they don't have those amps running at full tilt - that way the speakers survive.

In inexperienced hands it is better to make it difficult to damage the speakers by mistake or operator error, and this can only be done by ensuring the speakers can safely take anything the amp can throw at it.

And before anyone quotes about clipping damaging speakers, go and read up on some theory, rather than reading advertising waffle or statements written by those who don't know the subject - there is far too much misinformation thrown about concerning this very simple issue.

For the record, I use 300 watts a side into my bass bins, each rated at 600 watts AES. I could get a bigger amp if I wanted to but I don't need it. What I most certainly am not doing is damaging my speakers!

The maths are very simple, and there is no black magic at work here, only the heating effect of an electric current.

I just knew this was going to re-open the can of worms. I have seen cogent and convincing arguments for all three scenarios: speakers twice amp/speakers equal amp/speakers half amp

Sorry Andy, in my youth ( What a memory I must have ! ) I have blown many speakers rated higher than the amp output. When everything is wound up as far as it will go, a clipped signal is a dangerous weapon!:(

No less a company than Peavey recommend speakers half amp, as they say that this is the best match. I'm not doing the explanation as it's been done before. At the moment I'm running amp 1.5-equal speakers, depending on how many speakers are in use, and I feel this is a very workable ratio.

Story time. I've said many times before how my main PA used to be a pair of Eurosys 3's, 150w RMS. I had two amps, one 150wRMS at 8ohms, and big sister 200w RMS at 8ohms. With the small one I was often pushing it hard, clip lights flashing, but with the bigger it was rarely a problem. The speakers survived both with no problems, but if I were to advise anyone of an amp to match them, I would choose the bigger. Believe me, if the amp is small it will get turned up past the point of safety. Also, as I suggested, since a speaker upgrade is on the cards, get a bigger amp first, as it will fit the new improved speakers when they arrive.

[Excalibur]

a clipping signal due to the speakers being under powered will damage speakers.

Absolutely, and if your amp is underpowered, you will turn it right up!:eek:

[JAMdisco]

Alternatively, do what I did and buy active speakers - not fool-proof exactly as you can still distort them but you have to be a pretty dumb fool to damage them (IMO). I'm sure Mackie have spent a lot of time and research when matching the amp with the speakers on my SWA1501 & SRM450's!

[Excalibur]

Alternatively, do what I did and buy active speakers - not fool-proof exactly as you can still distort them but you have to be a pretty dumb fool to damage them (IMO). I'm sure Mackie have spent a lot of time and research when matching the amp with the speakers on my SWA1501 & SRM450's!

Good advice, that man. Many who use them say they are the answer. The physics of splitting signal at pre-amp level means vastly improved sound quality over in-speaker crossovers. Some types can have thermal issues, I am told, so cooling can be an issue. The cost factor may be a bar to some, and versatility to others. Then again, you may just be like me, and regard them as a faddy "Emperor's new clothes " affair! :p :D Seriously, I recently had the pleasure of hearing Twinspin's active setup, and I will definitely try to have another meeting soon. The sound quality was absolutely excellent, but I know Jason is unhappy about thermal issues with them. :)

[Andy Westcott]

I love these discussions!

Quote:
"a clipping signal due to the speakers being under powered will damage speakers."

Please explain that one, as I've no idea why this would be.

A signal will never clip due to any speakers being underpowered. Clipping is due to the output of the amplifier reaching the supply rail voltage, and has nothing to do with speakers - this would happen with no speakers connected at all!

And as for 'underpowering' speakers, isn't that what you are effectively doing during early evening when you are playing backgound music? You may only be putting a handful of watts to the speakers - way 'underpowering' them, but they don't burn out. Why is this then?

And why does this mysterious clipping damage speakers?
It is possible to send a clipped waveform to the speakers without the amp clipping - it may be like that on the recording - so what then? Do we smell burning voce coils? No.

There is a situation whereby if you clip the amp in midrange frequencies (unlikely unless you are a complete idiot) you may damage the HF unit, but this is due to the additional higher harmonics generated being fed to the horn, which isn't rated to take very much power. Clipping the bass region (by far the most likely) isn't going to damage anything, as long as the speaker can take the wattage.

Fact:
If you have a 300 watt RMS driver and you feed it with a 500 watt RMS sine wave signal, it will be damaged.
If you have a 600 watt driver and you feed it with 300 watts of power signal, clipped or not, it will survive, and by a good margin. No iffs or buts, a fact of physics.

I think the confusion arises for possibly two reasons:
Firstly because manufacturers recommend using amps with a higher rating than the speakers. They do this knowing there is a risk of damage, but as people generally don't operate the amps at full whack the failure rate will be acceptably small. And suggesting the bigger amps looks good to the less knowledgeable. "Wow! Must be good speakers then!!" It is true that when used correctly, this configuration allows the end user to make the best use of the speaker's thermal capacity, and as higher capacity costs more money, this makes a kind of sense - but this only works if the user knows enough to avoid damage - not the case here.

Secondly, a heavily clipping amp will output rather more power than the figure quoted, although it would sound so bad at that point I can't honestly see anyone operating an amp under these conditions.

As I said earlier, we have to give this guy advice he can rely on not to damage his gear if he operates outside the norm due to his inexperience. Suggesting huge amps on small speakers is, I feel, irresponsible and unfair.

[Excalibur]

I love these discussions!

Quote:
"a clipping signal due to the speakers being under powered will damage speakers."

Please explain that one, as I've no idea why this would be.

A signal will never clip due to any speakers being underpowered. Clipping is due to the output of the amplifier reaching the supply rail voltage, and has nothing to do with speakers - this would happen with no speakers connected at all!

And as for 'underpowering' speakers, isn't that what you are effectively doing during early evening when you are playing backgound music? You may only be putting a handful of watts to the speakers - way 'underpowering' them, but they don't burn out. Why is this then?

And why does this mysterious clipping damage speakers?
It is possible to send a clipped waveform to the speakers without the amp clipping - it may be like that on the recording - so what then? Do we smell burning voce coils? No.

There is a situation whereby if you clip the amp in midrange frequencies (unlikely unless you are a complete idiot) you may damage the HF unit, but this is due to the additional higher harmonics generated being fed to the horn, which isn't rated to take very much power. Clipping the bass region (by far the most likely) isn't going to damage anything, as long as the speaker can take the wattage.

Fact:
If you have a 300 watt RMS driver and you feed it with a 500 watt RMS sine wave signal, it will be damaged.
If you have a 600 watt driver and you feed it with 300 watts of power signal, clipped or not, it will survive, and by a good margin. No iffs or buts, a fact of physics.

I think the confusion arises for possibly two reasons:
Firstly because manufacturers recommend using amps with a higher rating than the speakers. They do this knowing there is a risk of damage, but as people generally don't operate the amps at full whack the failure rate will be acceptably small. And suggesting the bigger amps looks good to the less knowledgeable. "Wow! Must be good speakers then!!" It is true that when used correctly, this configuration allows the end user to make the best use of the speaker's thermal capacity, and as higher capacity costs more money, this makes a kind of sense - but this only works if the user knows enough to avoid damage - not the case here.

Secondly, a heavily clipping amp will output rather more power than the figure quoted, although it would sound so bad at that point I can't honestly see anyone operating an amp under these conditions.

As I said earlier, we have to give this guy advice he can rely on not to damage his gear if he operates outside the norm due to his inexperience. Suggesting huge amps on small speakers is, I feel, irresponsible and unfair.

And oh how I hate them. Mostly because people confuse opinion with fact.

Fact:
If you have a 300 watt RMS driver and you feed it with a 500 watt RMS sine wave signal, it will be damaged.

Not a fair statement, and you know why.


If you have a 600 watt driver and you feed it with 300 watts of power signal, clipped or not, it will survive, and by a good margin. No iffs or buts, a fact of physics.


Untrue. I know this to my cost. Many times, when I was young and foolish.

[wayne_uk]

I never had a problem with my old FAL 50, always drove it at maximum and it served me well, lol

[Excalibur]

I never had a problem with my old FAL 50, always drove it at maximum and it served me well, lol

They didn't have any other settings, did they?;) :D

[wayne_uk]

nope, switch on, turn everything up, slap a shiney round black thing on the platter, add the arm thingy and watch the dance floor fill up (ahh memorys)...............now where's my horlicks and slippers

[Excalibur]

nope, switch on, turn everything up, slap a shiney round black thing on the platter, add the arm thingy and watch the dance floor fill up (ahh memorys)...............now where's my horlicks and slippers

And you know, we didn't have the worry of those annoying red lights, that these modern amps are fitted with!;) If it didn't catch fire, it was running fine!:thumbs_up:

[Tom]

And you know, we didn't have the worry of those annoying red lights, that these modern amps are fitted with!;) If it didn't catch fire, it was running fine!:thumbs_up:

where's callum..... ;) :D

[Jiggles]

Did you call :D

[mb3]

I was going to keep out of this discussion, but there is some misleading and potentially damaging advice being given here.

For no particular reason I'll single this one out:
"Remember underpowering your speakers can damage both the speakers and amp"

Sorry, but that is untrue. Please explain how, in electronic terms, that can possibly occur?


Underpowering your speakers leads to the temptation to turn the amp up. If you do so:

The amp starts to clip, and runs too hot = overheating damage to amp.

The signal that is sent by a clipping amp is distorted, therefore it is harder for the speaker to handle = damage to speaker.

[mb3]

nope, switch on, turn everything up, slap a shiney round black thing on the platter, add the arm thingy and watch the dance floor fill up (ahh memorys)...............now where's my horlicks and slippers

Don't forget to balance a penny on the arm thingy if it skips.....

:beer1:

[Excalibur]

Don't forget to balance a penny on the arm thingy if it skips.....

:beer1:

We always had money in our pockets in those days!;) :D :D

[TonyB]

Underpowering your speakers leads to the temptation to turn the amp up. If you do so:

The amp starts to clip, and runs too hot = overheating damage to amp.

The signal that is sent by a clipping amp is distorted, therefore it is harder for the speaker to handle = damage to speaker.

You are missing a big point there. If your set up means that you are running into clipping, it means that both the amplifier AND the speakers are not powerful enough for the job.

For example, if you are using 300w output amp and 300w speakers and it clips, so you go out and buy a 500w amp. You should only use 300w of the new amps output, the extra 200w is headroom to allow for ambient peaks but the temptation will be there to push the volume up and start pushing 400w or 500w into the speakers to make them louder which will overdrive and possibly damage them.

If the speakers can handle 500w then you can relax knowing that they can handle the full output of the amp. If you use 300w speakers you will have the worry of not knowing when you exceed the power handling of the speakers which could cause possible failure in the middle of a gig.

Personally I would rather have the peace of mind knowing that the speakers can handle whatever is thrown at them and knowing that I will get a warning from the clipping lights if I push it too far. But if you are happy to gamble with a possible speaker failure in mid gig then by all means use a more powerful amp than the speakers are designed for.

[Excalibur]

You are missing a big point there. If your set up means that you are running into clipping, it means that both the amplifier AND the speakers are not powerful enough for the job.

For example, if you are using 300w output amp and 300w speakers and it clips, so you go out and buy a 500w amp. You should only use 300w of the new amps output, the extra 200w is headroom to allow for ambient peaks but the temptation will be there to push the volume up and start pushing 400w or 500w into the speakers to make them louder which will overdrive and possibly damage them.

If the speakers can handle 500w then you can relax knowing that they can handle the full output of the amp. If you use 300w speakers you will have the worry of not knowing when you exceed the power handling of the speakers which could cause possible failure in the middle of a gig.

Personally I would rather have the peace of mind knowing that the speakers can handle whatever is thrown at them and knowing that I will get a warning from the clipping lights if I push it too far. But if you are happy to gamble with a possible speaker failure in mid gig then by all means use a more powerful amp than the speakers are designed for.

According to the following posts, we all said this previously. :confused:




But I feel it would not be the best match, as it looks a little underpowered to me. My choice, with regards to lowest cost would be:

http://www.djkit.co.uk/product.php?id=92&cat=40

as it has a little bit of future proofing, when you upgrade to Class-D speakers!;)

If funds are really that tight: Under £100 , and a good match, and in a correct size package

http://www.djkit.co.uk/product.php?id=91&cat=40


That amplifier/speaker combination is not a good match.

The speakers you are looking at are rated 150wrms at 8R and the amplifier is only 100wrms at 8R. You need to get a larger amplifier, look for something around 200w to 300wrms at 8R if you are buying those speakers

Hope this helps

Tony








Hey groove,

That amp would be a bit under powered for your speakers. Your amp should be about 1.5 - 2.5 times the power of your speakers per channel.

this amp would be better suited.
http://www.soundsavers.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=4&products_id=2464

Remember underpowering your speakers can damage both the speakers and amp, with this amp you'll have more headroom.

I've heard Warriror amps are great little amps for the money and very reliable so personally i would go with them but i'm sure they'll be other good suggestions, theres alot out there!


a clipping signal due to the speakers being under powered will damage speakers.


Not technically correct.

The way I understand it, is that if you have a smaller amp its more tempting to push the master on the mixer and can therefore clip the inputs on the amp, thereby sending an amplified clipped signal to the speakers which is bad news.

If you have a bigger amp, you're not as tempted to push the mixer master up and won't have the same problems. You can still however push too much power into the speakers, and you'll hear this as distortion so can always turn it down!

So technically underpowering your speakers isn't damaging, its just it can potentially cause more problems than overpowering them, as the first case is far worse for speakers and amp than the second.


Absolutely, and if your amp is underpowered, you will turn it right up!:eek:

[Andy Westcott]

Feelings of heads, images of brick walls, and lots of banging comes to mind...

"if your amp is underpowered, you will turn it right up!"
Why? But even if you did, a monster speaker on the end wouldn't flinch.

"a clipping signal due to the speakers being under powered will damage speakers."
This is technically meaningless nonesense, as any electronics engineer on here should be able to tell you.

"Your amp should be about 1.5 - 2.5 times the power of your speakers per channel."
According to whom? Why should it be? Give us the facts behind your reasoning.

"If you have a 300 watt RMS driver and you feed it with a 500 watt RMS sine wave signal, it will be damaged."
"Not a fair statement, and you know why."
Sorry - I've no idea why that's unfair. Please explain how a speaker rated at a maximum dissipation of 300 watts can suddenly become capable of dissipating almost double the heat without damage. And please inform Fane/PD/Eminence etc as they'd be extremely interested in your discovery.

I can't be bothered with this anymore - argue amongst yourselves.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

There has always been different opinions on this and there doesn't seem to be a definative answer, so let's just value each others opinion and go with whatever you think.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Sorry Andy but I find your last reply a bit out of order and it feels as if you are the 'be all and know all teacher character' telling us all off. Everyone has their own opinions and everyone listens to opinions but to say "Argue between yourselves" is a bit of a cheeky comment in my opinion.

Not wishing to start an argument or anything, just thought I would mention it.

[rob1963]

Please explain how a speaker rated at a maximum dissipation of 300 watts can suddenly become capable of dissipating almost double the heat without damage.

I'll have a go.

If a speaker is rated at 300 watts RMS, it should be able to take 500 watts without any problems.

As I understand it, this is because 300 watts RMS means 300 watts at a constant level. However, music is not a constant level, as it has peaks & troughs.

Therefore, a speaker rated at 300 watts RMS should easily take 500 watts of MUSIC power, as music power is a fair bit less than a constant (RMS) tone.

If I'm wrong here, I'm more than willing to be corrected.

[Excalibur]

I'll have a go.

If a speaker is rated at 300 watts RMS, it should be able to take 500 watts without any problems.

As I understand it, this is because 300 watts RMS means 300 watts at a constant level. However, music is not a constant level, as it has peaks & troughs.

Therefore, a speaker rated at 300 watts RMS should easily take 500 watts of MUSIC power, as music power is a fair bit less than a constant (RMS) tone.

If I'm wrong here, I'm more than willing to be corrected.

Rob, you're doing it again! ;) :thumbs_up: The gospel according to Peavey
( and others) just about bang on.

[rob1963]

Rob, you're doing it again! ;) :thumbs_up: The gospel according to Peavey
(and others) just about bang on.

Thank you my good man!

I was pretty sure I was right, as that's what my brother told me a while ago when I asked him about RMS, and he knows a bit about these things, as he's been an electronics engineer for more than 20 years!

:D :D :D

[Vectis]

The gospel according to Peavey
( and others) just about bang on.

Well I have emails from Peavey tech support confirming the PV1500 amp is a good match for the Messenger Pro-15s.

The speakers are rated 300W RMS 600W Program 1200W Peak at 4R

The amp is rated 500W RMS into 4R

Kinda fits with my 1.5x rule of thumb.

[Excalibur]

Thank you my good man!

I was pretty sure I was right, as that's what my brother told me a while ago when I asked him about RMS, and he knows a bit about these things, as he's been an electronics engineer for more than 20 years!

:D :D :D

Stop agreeing with me!:D


Well I have emails from Peavey tech support confirming the PV1500 amp is a good match for the Messenger Pro-15s.

The speakers are rated 300W RMS 600W Program 1200W Peak at 4R

The amp is rated 500W RMS into 4R

Kinda fits with my 1.5x rule of thumb.


And mine. As I have said many times before, but why not go for it one more time? I run in essence two setups:

Amp 2x750w at 4ohms, or 2x500 at 8ohms. Speakers are 350w 8ohms. Therefore, one set of speakers, I too follow VV at 1.5 (ish), but with two we achieve parity. This gives flexibility.

Small gig/space - one amp, one pair speakers full range
Bigger- two amps, two pairs with crossover.
Next up- as above, with two pairs of subs
Biggest- Everything in play, technically 3Kw. Now let's see that pesky Band be noisier than me!;) :D

[mb3]

I love these discussions!




I can't be bothered with this anymore - argue amongst yourselves.




Make your mind up ! :D

[Excalibur]

Make your mind up ! :D

Thank you for posting that!:D I too had spotted it, but couldn't be bothered to find the bits!:D :D

[plainman007]

I have a set of 2 speakers thats Rated at 300rms @ 8R per speaker. Im using it with a CROWN XLS 202 amp thats i think rated at 250rms x 2 channels @ 8R. Is this a good match ? Ideal or Just ok.

Thanks

[rob1963]

I have a set of 2 speakers thats Rated at 300rms @ 8R per speaker. Im using it with a CROWN XLS 202 amp thats i think rated at 250rms x 2 channels @ 8R. Is this a good match ? Ideal or Just ok.

Thanks

The Crown XLS 202 amp only gives out 200 watts per channel at 8 ohms.

If your speakers are 300 watts RMS, then the amp is rather underpowered.

With speakers of that rating, you really need an amp that puts out at least 300 to 400 watts per channel.