Should i go Mackie

[good vibrations]

I am just a click away from buying a pair of mackie srm 450s what is holding me back at the moment is,

1) People talk about the heat problem the reason for my concern is the the function room at my residency tends to be very warm.

2) Some people say there is not enough bass and the last thing i want to do is use a sub.

At the moment i run a pair of peavey eurosys 3 which are rated at 300 watts each, the function room is not huge and my audience is normaly between 100 to 150 people which my present system is adequate for all be it i run it just below full power.
I do not use huge amounts of bass, just what you would call a normal amount
I know a speaker sound is a personal thing and you should listen to them first but its finding somewhere to demo them, but there must be enough people on here I'm sure that use them that my be able to answer my concerns.
I am not looking to open a debate about other active speakers as i feel it is Mackie or stay as i am.
The main reason for an active system is to cut down on equipment all be it only 2 amps and the odd cable but as Tesco say every little helps.
I look forward to your responses

[Excalibur]

I am just a click away from buying a pair of mackie srm 450s what is holding me back at the moment is,

1) People talk about the heat problem the reason for my concern is the the function room at my residency tends to be very warm.

2) Some people say there is not enough bass and the last thing i want to do is use a sub.

At the moment i run a pair of peavey eurosys 3 which are rated at 300 watts each, the function room is not huge and my audience is normaly between 100 to 150 people which my present system is adequate for all be it i run it just below full power.
I do not use huge amounts of bass, just what you would call a normal amount
I know a speaker sound is a personal thing and you should listen to them first but its finding somewhere to demo them, but there must be enough people on here I'm sure that use them that my be able to answer my concerns.
I am not looking to open a debate about other active speakers as i feel it is Mackie or stay as i am.
The main reason for an active system is to cut down on equipment all be it only 2 amps and the odd cable but as Tesco say every little helps.
I look forward to your responses

I have no personal experience of working with Mackies, but many on here have, Twinspin, Darren, Jay Dee and many others. They love them, and when I have heard them, they do indeed sound good. However, if you intend not to use subs, they have 12" drivers rather than 15", so bass response would be theoretically less good. How do you cut out two amps, are you one amp per speaker? I ran a pair of Eurosys 3's for a long time, and loved them from day one. You may not actually lose any cables as far as I understand it. If you like your Peaveys, fine. If you simply wanted a power increase, I would give an opinion, but since I'm getting a little predictable, I won't.;)

I'm sure others will be along soon with their considered opinions. Good luck.

Edit. I see you are in York, I can't demo Mackies for you, but I can demo a low cost passive speaker, nudge nudge, wink wink.

[Dragonfly]

Well .... i used to use a pair of eurosys 500 speakers before my srm450s and the latter gives a much more punchy bass end in my opinion . i have a sub but find the sound from the 450s enough for alot of places.

on over heating one of my 450s has overheated on a single occasion where a little snot kept leaning over and turning up the volume , the room was upstairs with no windows etc. you can buy fans that attach to the heat sinc if you are that worried but im not sure how good these are or if it is advisable to use them , maybe a normal fan behind you that oscillates may be enough?

ive never had an issue with my mackis and highly recommend them.

[Excalibur]

Well .... i used to use a pair of eurosys 500 speakers before my srm450s and the latter gives a much more punchy bass end in my opinion . i have a sub but find the sound from the 450s enough for alot of places.



ive never had an issue with my mackis and highly recommend them.

That's me told then!:o :D :D

[good vibrations]

Thanks Excalibur the reason for 2 amps one is a spare

[pagan_flame]

I run SRM 450's up top and Peavey Clubsys (Messenger UL 15"s) down below.

Best of both worlds - sounds like a 3kW hi-fi with the addition of a cheapo 15 band graphic EQ. Critics of them say they sound harsh / trebly - if you have no EQ on your system then don't bother buying them, but if you do then just knock the sliders down a little on the 5k - 10k end to fix that problem.

I did a function in the summer last year with only the SRM 450's and thought the bass was a bit lacking... until I went downstairs to the loo and heard them thumping away - upstairs, on stands!

If you are concerned about bass and only wanting to run 1 set, go for some active 15"s ... however if you have just those and they thermal out, it's going to be quiet for a bit... I'd never run just one set of speakers without having a backup set with me.

Have had no problems with mine overheating so far, including Xmas parties where the sweat was rolling off me.

[Shaun]

I like my 450's, but I personally find them a bit lacking in the bass department.

[DMX Will]

I like my 450's, but I personally find them a bit lacking in the bass department.

You could say a bit inadequate downstairs, eh Shaun ;)

[CRAZY K]

Well .... i used to use a pair of eurosys 500 speakers before my srm450s and the latter gives a much more punchy bass end in my opinion . i have a sub but find the sound from the 450s enough for alot of places.

on over heating one of my 450s has overheated on a single occasion where a little snot kept leaning over and turning up the volume , the room was upstairs with no windows etc. you can buy fans that attach to the heat sinc if you are that worried but im not sure how good these are or if it is advisable to use them , maybe a normal fan behind you that oscillates may be enough?

ive never had an issue with my mackis and highly recommend them.

You seem to be coming across a lot of little snots in your travels Dave--yesterday they were pulling out the mains lead---do you advertise for
them:D

The controls are in the cabinets I guess --so I suppose thats an extra security risk with uncontrolled kids:eek:

CRAZY K

[pulsemobiledisco]

I like my 450's, but I personally find them a bit lacking in the bass department.

I use the passive version of the SRM450 (C300z). They are the same speaker but without the built in amp, and I agree with Shaun. I do find them to lack a little bass. I have added a DB Sub 15 to them and now have more bass than I can ever imagine I will need!

[Excalibur]

Seems to me that from the comments there is no definitive answer, other than you must hear them to make a judgment for yourself. In that respect I am no use at all, but since you are close to me, if you want to hear something different in the passive line, give me a call.

[flatliners]

i am keeping my mouth shut on this one hehe

[Shaun]

Seems to me that from the comments there is no definitive answer, other than you must hear them to make a judgment for yourself.

That pretty much sums it up nicely.

[rob1963]

i am keeping my mouth shut on this one hehe

Why, flatliners?

Aren't there any speakers you can recommend to him?

[PropellerHeadCase]

Stirring the pot, Rob?

[spin mobile disco]

I use the c300 makies as well. They are fine when added to a sub but I find that without one the bass is a little lacking unless you wack the eq up high on the botom end which of course puts more strain on amps etc.
Good speakers but if you dont want a sub probably not worth it.

[DJ Frankie]

If you want a decent set of speakers get a pair of RCF Art 300 or 310 I have used the 300's for the past 10 years and the bass on these bad boys are great.

[rob1963]

Stirring the pot, Rob?

Moi?

:sofa:

[Corabar Steve]

i am keeping my mouth shut on this one hehe


Why, flatliners?

Aren't there any speakers you can recommend to him?


If you want a decent set of speakers get a pair of RCF Art 300 or 310 I have used the 300's for the past 10 years and the bass on these bad boys are great.



I am not looking to open a debate about other active speakers as i feel it is Mackie or stay as i am.
AHEM!

[rob1963]

:sorry:

[good vibrations]

Thanks for all your replies have put the mouse away so wont be buying any yet, as there seems to be a strong indication that you need to use a sub. So from that do i take it all mobile discos that use these us a sub if not is it substandered sound. will have to go and have a listen

once again thanks unless anyone else has anything to add.

[Shaun]

Thanks for all your replies have put the mouse away so wont be buying any yet, as there seems to be a strong indication that you need to use a sub. So from that do i take it all mobile discos that use these us a sub if not is it substandered sound. will have to go and have a listen

once again thanks unless anyone else has anything to add.


I wouldn't say substandard, just a little lacking in the 'oomph' department. :). For smaller gigs the 450's on their own are sufficient. Anything over a hundred guests and I prefer to add a sub.

[Dragonfly]

depends what sound you like ?? and as I said I used similar peavey speakers that you use now and .....in comparison..... my mackies give a better bass response than my passive peaveys ever did , thus i think it may well be an improvement on what you have.

Iam not and never have been into huge bass and have always thought my mackies give a nice sound on their own , yes when i do use them on their own i take a bit of top off them and have the bass set to about halfway between 1 and 2 o clock.

[JAMdisco]

Hi, sorry I'm a bit late for this one!

I use SRM450's and have only recently had my sub repaired.
I found that the bass was fine without the sub, but they can get really hot when pushing large ammounts of bass through so clip on fans would be one option.

If you're running them like this, they do have a low frequency cut button which should be disabled, they also have a contour button which can alter the sound in different venues!

I now run them with my sub again. I'm in Hessle (just outside Hull) most Saturday evenings if you want to come and have a listen. I'll even cut out the sub so you can hear the difference. PM me if you're interested!

Basically, I love 'em, lightweight (apart from the sub), powerful and sturdy!

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I use SRM450's and have only recently had my sub repaired.



Slightly off topic, but there is a reason - what was wrong with your sub?

[JAMdisco]

It just stopped working - it was only a faulty power switch - cost £25 to fix (mainly labour I guess) I've had it for about 4 years and it's the first time anything has gone wrong.
By the way - it was the SWA1501 in case you wondered.

[spin mobile disco]

I know a fellow DJ who uses 4 jbl 12inch tops with 4 jbl subs. And tells me He woudl rather use my 2 mackie's with a sub than lug his lot around. Our volume is comparable 2 vs 4 tops as the mackies are very efficient.

[cosmicdiscos]

My friend uses said mackies, once they got really hot and switched off so now he has a clip on fan on each stand. In my opinion the sound lacks in bass, much prefer my peavey ul15s

[Excalibur]

Hi, sorry I'm a bit late for this one!

I use SRM450's and have only recently had my sub repaired.
I found that the bass was fine without the sub, but they can get really hot when pushing large ammounts of bass through so clip on fans would be one option.

If you're running them like this, they do have a low frequency cut button which should be disabled, they also have a contour button which can alter the sound in different venues!

I now run them with my sub again. I'm in Hessle (just outside Hull) most Saturday evenings if you want to come and have a listen. I'll even cut out the sub so you can hear the difference. PM me if you're interested!

Basically, I love 'em, lightweight (apart from the sub), powerful and sturdy!


Come on Justin, the poor lad's in York! Surely you're not going to suggest he ventures out to Hessle? :D Are you sure he could handle the culture shock? ;) :D :D

Edit: Only joking, as Justin knows. They do sound good, same as Twinspin's rig, but it's all personal choice.

[good vibrations]

Well thank you all for your replies am just going to have to go and listen to some thanks for your offer Justin I may just take you up on that and thanks Peter its a long time since I have been called a lad

[BeerFunk]

You won't regret getting the 450s, I was exactly the same as you - I wasn't convinced that they could do the job. Due to their small size, I just couldn't imagine they would be up to it, but following recommendations from the guys on the forums here, I took the plunge, and I am very impressed by them!

[JAMdisco]

My friend uses said mackies, once they got really hot and switched off so now he has a clip on fan on each stand. In my opinion the sound lacks in bass, much prefer my peavey ul15s

I reckon he's doing something wrong then, does he have the low frequency button in or out.

I know when I used them (even without the sub) the one thing they did not lack was low frequency punch. I think mine are the older versions (not the chinese ones) and this might have something to do with it. They are about 6 years old I think.

When I used them in the band (5 piece rock band with everything mic'd up) we also had clip on fans which solved the overheating problem. I have found out recently that they mainly get hot when they are not getting enough air circulation. i.e. right up to a wall. I think you need a good 12" or more to get enough airflow to aid cooling.

[good vibrations]

Well am going to Dolphin music next Monday which is in the metro centre Gateshead to demo a pair of Mackie srm450 plus a Mackie dfx 6 mixer, I think as you say the best way is to go and listen to them.
Has anyone ever dealt with this company

Cheers Pete

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Well am going to Dolphin music next Monday which is in the metro centre Gateshead to demo a pair of Mackie srm450 plus a Mackie dfx 6 mixer, I think as you say the best way is to go and listen to them.
Has anyone ever dealt with this company

Cheers Pete

I've bought from Dolphin on the internet quite a few times and have never had problems.

[pulsemobiledisco]

Well am going to Dolphin music next Monday which is in the metro centre Gateshead to demo a pair of Mackie srm450 plus a Mackie dfx 6 mixer, I think as you say the best way is to go and listen to them.
Has anyone ever dealt with this company

Cheers Pete

I've orderd several peices of quipment from the Dolphin Music website and have been very impressed with the service. Fast delivery and good commnication about the order progress. Even get an email asking if the goods have been delivered OK.

As it happens, have just placed an order with them today for MAckie SRM 450 bags.

Sam

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I've orderd several peices of quipment from the Dolphin Music website and have been very impressed with the service. Fast delivery and good commnication about the order progress. Even get an email asking if the goods have been delivered OK.

As it happens, have just placed an order with them today for MAckie SRM 450 bags.

Sam

You sure they have them in stock? There was a shortage a while back and I got an email from them the other day to say they had one in stock!

[pulsemobiledisco]

You sure they have them in stock? There was a shortage a while back and I got an email from them the other day to say they had one in stock!

Your right, have just checked my email and they have emailed to say they are out of stock.

Looks like will be having a another search round the net.

Sam

[flatliners]

belive it or not i did once toy with the idea of the 450s but was advised by a guy who is a technical genius and builds his own sound systems that i should go for the jbl eon15g2 he uses jbl products in the speakers he builds.
had the jbls 4 years with no problems

[Penfold42]

belive it or not i did once toy with the idea of the 450s

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

....i also look at RCF at the weekend.......:eek: good job i was sitting down...:D

[Twinspin]

The mackie srm450s are good but out of the two i prefer my RCF ART322A's, Reason why is they sound considerably smoother than the mackies.

This is from experience of using them both..... I have a pair of mackie srm450s as well.

If your nearby (pete good vibrations) one night and im working come and have a listen to my RCF system. Or if its the mackies you want i can demo them for ya... or you could even come down here during the week and ill get them out..... for you to have a listen.

Im based in Hull btw.

[BeerFunk]

belive it or not i did once toy with the idea of the 450s
:eek:

I think RCF may stop your cheques if they read these forums... :(

[flatliners]

think of how lite the rcf 310a speakers compared to the mackies

[rob1963]

think of how lite the rcf 310a speakers compared to the mackies

Flatliners,

Are you saying you like RCF speakers?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Don't encourage him....

[Dragonfly]

Just sold my mackie sub but highly recommend mackie love my srm450s

if you are going Mackie ...................................


can you pick me up a double cheeseburger and a mcflurry cheers !!! :D :D :D

[rob1963]

Don't encourage him....

:sofa:

[good vibrations]

Ok guys thanks for all your input a big thanks to Twinspin John for your offer very kind of you.
I am off as I said to Dolphin music on Mondayto listen to them along with some ev's and hopefully all will become clear what I really want.
Will let you all know how I go on, once again many thanks.
By the way Dave why did you sell your sub.

[Excalibur]

Ok guys thanks for all your input a big thanks to Twinspin John for your offer very kind of you.
I am off as I said to Dolphin music on Mondayto listen to them along with some ev's and hopefully all will become clear what I really want.
Will let you all know how I go on, once again many thanks.
By the way Dave why did you sell your sub.

JD also offered a listen of his gear, the pub he works in is a lot closer than Newcastle:D

[good vibrations]

I thought I had thanked JD for his offer, if I haven't then I apologise JD and thanks. Yes he is closer than Newcastle but if I like the sound of them is he going to let me walk away with them.


Well thank you all for your replies am just going to have to go and listen to some thanks for your offer Justin I may just take you up on that and thanks Peter its a long time since I have been called a lad

Yep thought i had said thank you

[Dragonfly]

By the way Dave why did you sell your sub.


To cut a long story short I had surgery to my ankle in September which has not worked and I as yet am still unable to put any weight on my right leg so my wife is being roadie so I can continue to work in some capacity but at size 8 and 5ft 2in a 40kg bass bin is just not functional so I have purchase a pair of lighter Carlsbro subs in the interests of managability.

There is talks about a resolution to my leg problem ..... it is extreme , but in the long run would give me a much better quality of life , so nothing firmed up yet I have to go and see a psychologist first, but back end of this year there may be a couple of midlands discos benefitting from a 3rd source of work. :D :D :D :D

sorry to take the thread slightly off topic but was just answering the question.

If I had been fit and able and as I was this time last year I would not have parted with my mackie sub.

[JAMdisco]

I thought I had thanked JD for his offer, if I haven't then I apologise JD and thanks. Yes he is closer than Newcastle but if I like the sound of them is he going to let me walk away with them.

Only if you pay me loads so I can go and buy the new Mackie SRM450's :D

By the way, I used to live in York and I used to go to Electro Music in Doncaster (again closer than Newcastle). They often do really good deals on PA equipment (they also have a new shop opposite the old one, dedicated to PA stuff).
I bought 2 SWA1501's from them when everywhere else was sold out!

[good vibrations]

Justin your a star I have spent ages on the web to find a place near me. I'm off to Doncaster tomorrow to try some out
unless you will take 50 quid for yours

[Excalibur]

Justin your a star I have spent ages on the web to find a place near me. I'm off to Doncaster tomorrow to try some out
unless you will take 50 quid for yours

With the greatest respect, if we had known, we could have pointed out dealers nearer. I thought you had another reason for going to Newcastle. If you up your offer to Justin a little bit, he could upgrade to Class-D, and get a nice heavy amp to stabilise his Prolight stand!! :p :D :D

One or two useful links here.

http://www.electromusic.co.uk/home.php?xid=0cb7d8478f68ae8d2fda6e71c7bc3845

http://www.rockfactory.co.uk/

http://www.soundsincorporated.com/index.htm


Edit: Well I never! I knew of Electromusic, but had often overlooked them when searching for gear, and on perusing their site, I find they show a full range of JTS Radio Mics. Since they also do the Shure referred to in the last radio mic thread at £ 170, I reckon I could be making my way across to Doncaster in the foreseeable future. ;) :D :D

[JAMdisco]

It's a really good shop (electro-music) only thing is, I need to make sure I'm not busy for the rest of the day when I go. I usually spend hours just chatting and trying stuff out.

Don't quote me on this but, they do usually throw in the odd bit of stuff if you're buying a lot, or give discount. They're really friendly (unlike Blacklight in Hull) which is why I keep going back.

Peter, If you're going to Electro let me know, if I'm free I might tag along...

[Excalibur]

It's a really good shop (electro-music) only thing is, I need to make sure I'm not busy for the rest of the day when I go. I usually spend hours just chatting and trying stuff out.

Don't quote me on this but, they do usually throw in the odd bit of stuff if you're buying a lot, or give discount. They're really friendly (unlike Blacklight in Hull) which is why I keep going back.

Peter, If you're going to Electro let me know, if I'm free I might tag along...

Justin, yes Blacklight is not the shop it was when I started. Once the area's premier Disco outlet, it's now only a shadow of it's former self.
As to Doncaster, if and when I go, I would be delighted for a second pair of ears to assist me in my choice, even if those ears do belong to someone who uses active speakers! :p :D

[good vibrations]

hope all goes well with the leg Dave when they get round to sorting it

[good vibrations]

Yes another pair of ears is always good plus would put the wife off going with me so she doesnt have to know the cost of them

[PropellerHeadCase]

Apparently, once you go Mackie you're unlikely to go back, eh?

[BeerFunk]

Apparently, once you go Mackie you're unlikely to go back, eh?
There's no single speaker manufacturer you could say that about, in my opinion. I use Mackie, and have used Peavey, Ohm, and EV... and have heard Class D, Bose, RCF and others in action, and I wouldn't say that any one is miles better than the other. I think when people say that, a lot of it is in their head - sort of like the people who only buy named brands, yet they wouldn't be able to tell the difference if they were blindfolded etc

[Tony Scott]

What's the deal with these: http://www.thomann.de/gb/tapco_by_mackie_thump_th_15a.htm

They look great, has anyone ever heard them?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I think when people say that, a lot of it is in their head - sort of like the people who only buy named brands, yet they wouldn't be able to tell the difference if they were blindfolded etc

I think that's a bit of a sweeping statement. There is difference in sound quality in a lot of makes and brands.

I've heard Bose 302s and 802s and was impressed
I've heard Bose L1s and B2s and wasn't impressed
I use EVSXA100s and am impressed by them
I've heard a small EV system (cant remember which one now) and wasn't impressed.
I've heard Peavey UL series and was impressed.
The list could go on and on....

It also depends how and what you are using them for, what mixer you are using etc

But I really do believe that people aren't as stupid as you're making out Callum. Anyway, if that was the case, why didn't you go for a cheaper make of active speaker? :p

[BeerFunk]

But I really do believe that people aren't as stupid as you're making out Callum. Anyway, if that was the case, why didn't you go for a cheaper make of active speaker? :p
No no, that wasn't the point I as trying to make, Darren! :)

Some people will say things like 'I only use Denon, it is the best you can buy, I won't use anything else'. To me, that is a crazy statement to make, as surely you buy or use equipment based upon evidence? A lot of people, including forum members here, will refuse to use a product made by, for example, Soundlab, Numark or Class D, without even giving it a chance.

There are people who stick by big name brands, and in all fairness, it will probably serve them well to do this, if they don't mind spending the money (needlessly, at times). The same possibly applies to supermarket shoppers - for example, Asda Shades toilet tissue is generally believed to be better than Andrex, yet some people won't even give it the light of day.

My original point was based on a comment made by Alan...

Apparently, once you go Mackie you're unlikely to go back, eh?
...to which my reply was supposed to basically say that there is no speaker manufacturer that make their products vastly superior to any other.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

No no, that wasn't the point I as trying to make, Darren! :)

Some people will say things like 'I only use Denon, it is the best you can buy, I won't use anything else'. To me, that is a crazy statement to make, as surely you buy or use equipment based upon evidence? A lot of people, including forum members here, will refuse to use a product made by, for example, Soundlab, Numark or Class D, without even giving it a chance.

There are people who stick by big name brands, and in all fairness, it will probably serve them well to do this, if they don't mind spending the money (needlessly, at times). The same possibly applies to supermarket shoppers - for example, Asda Shades toilet tissue is generally believed to be better than Andrex, yet some people won't even give it the light of day.

My original point was based on a comment made by Alan...

...to which my reply was supposed to basically say that there is no speaker manufacturer that make their products vastly superior to any other.

Not even Funktion 1 or Nexo?

[Excalibur]

There's no single speaker manufacturer you could say that about, in my opinion. I use Mackie, and have used Peavey, Ohm, and EV... and have heard Class D, Bose, RCF and others in action, and I wouldn't say that any one is miles better than the other. I think when people say that, a lot of it is in their head - sort of like the people who only buy named brands, yet they wouldn't be able to tell the difference if they were blindfolded etc

Mow that's exactly what I've been trying to say for ages. :thumbs_up:


Not even Funktion 1 or Nexo?


If you go to Rolls Royce class, obviously that's the case, but for us mere mortals, I think Callum has it exactly right. Stuff the badge, use your ears. ;) :D

[Danno13]

...to which my reply was supposed to basically say that there is no speaker manufacturer that make their products vastly superior to any other.

Well thats a bit of silly thing to say really. Why else would certain speakers be more expensive than others? Its not all just marketing... In the same way that a Jag is a hell of alot better than a Ford.


If you go to Rolls Royce class, obviously that's the case, but for us mere mortals, I think Callum has it exactly right. Stuff the badge, use your ears.

Well to be honest I don't see why more DJs can't justify the price of premium gear... i mean £5k (for say, a Nexo system) is not alot to pay in the long term... if it lasts 5 years thats less than 10% of turnover per year for most DJs I would have thought?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Have you got a brand new Nexo system then Dan?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Mow that's exactly what I've been trying to say for ages. :thumbs_up:




If you go to Rolls Royce class, obviously that's the case, but for us mere mortals, I think Callum has it exactly right. Stuff the badge, use your ears. ;) :D

I agree about using your ears, but there is a marked difference in the sound of different makes of speakers.

[Danno13]

No.. i only used Nexo as an extreme example... just to show that if that quality of system equates to such a low investment in the long term, then there must be brands inbetween than aren't so bad and easily in the reach of the mobile DJ.

(I've avoided certain brands so as not to blow my own trumpet.. as I hate that kind of thing on forums :) )

[Excalibur]

Well thats a bit of silly thing to say really. Why else would certain speakers be more expensive than others? Its not all just marketing... In the same way that a Jag is a hell of alot better than a Ford.



Well to be honest I don't see why more DJs can't justify the price of premium gear... i mean £5k (for say, a Nexo system) is not alot to pay in the long term... if it lasts 5 years thats less than 5% of turnover per year for most DJs I would have thought?

Now that is silly! :mad: I reckon there are a lot of us on here who could never justify 5K on a PA system! I spent £500 at one point, and that was £100 over budget at that point!:eek:

BTW, Jags and Saabs actually ARE Fords ! :D :D

[BeerFunk]

To be honest, Darren, I haven't heard a Nexo or Funktion 1 system, but I very much doubt they would overly impress me.

What's the point in getting audiophile PA equipment for an audience that is going to be drunk for approximately half the time? (and how many would notice when sober?)


Well thats a bit of silly thing to say really. Why else would certain speakers be more expensive than others? Its not all just marketing... In the same way that a Jag is a hell of alot better than a Ford.
So you believe that there is one speaker manufacturer that is head and shoulders above the others? Which one, then?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

No.. i only used Nexo as an extreme example... just to show that if that quality of system equates to such a low investment in the long term, then there must be brands inbetween than aren't so bad and easily in the reach of the mobile DJ.

Yeah, I know. I was only pulling your plonker...:eek: :D

You've got some cheap old Martin Audio rubbish...:p

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

To be honest, Darren, I haven't heard a Nexo or Funktion 1 system, but I very much doubt they would overly impress me.



Fair enough, but then I get the impression it would be hard to impress you with anything.:p :D

[Excalibur]

I agree about using your ears, but there is a marked difference in the sound of different makes of speakers.

Probably is, but does every expensive badged brand sound better than every low cost speaker which does not carry the fashionable sticker? :confused: :confused:

Somehow I think not, and the amount of us who are delighted with Class-D, I suspect I am not alone. And that's before we start pointing out how many Maplins Prosound products are re-badged items made by a well respected manufacturer. ;) ;) :D

[Danno13]

Now that is silly! I reckon there are a lot of us on here who could never justify 5K on a PA system! I spent £500 at one point, and that was £100 over budget at that point!


I don't think it's that silly.

Say you charge £150 per gig and have 70 in a year*.

Your PA system that cost £5k lasts 5 years.

That system represents about 9.5% of your turnover over the 5 years.

I refer to my earlier post, which was a guess!!!


if it lasts 5 years thats less than 10% of turnover per year for most DJs I would have thought?

Would you not say that £14.25 per gig is a reasonable amount to go towards a ****ed good sound system to ensure a quality sound for the guests and be able to go loud without leaving people's ears ringing at the end of the night?

And of course you don't have to buy that system brand new.. with good second hand deals you can get an equal quality system for much less.

*I'm keeping all figures very conservative!


So you believe that there is one speaker manufacturer that is head and shoulders above the others? Which one, then?

Nope, I couldn't possibly as I haven't heard every possible system (inc. everything from sound source->speakers) that there is avaliable.

Out of what I've heard though, Funktion One would be top, then Nexo, then Martin Audio.

[Excalibur]

Danno, while I completely accept your logic re cost effectiveness of high end systems, I will never have 5k to spend on a PA unless I win the lottery!

In my day job, we have tools which we regard as disposable, and will spend £20 or so on. We also have ones which are indispensable, and will spend £200-£600 on. Finding the £600 can be hard at times.;)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Probably is, but does every expensive badged brand sound better than every low cost speaker which does not carry the fashionable sticker? :confused: :confused:

Somehow I think not, and the amount of us who are delighted with Class-D, I suspect I am not alone. And that's before we start pointing out how many Maplins Prosound products are re-badged items made by a well respected manufacturer. ;) ;) :D

Carlsboro I assume you are talking about and they've never really been top of the tree have they?

The jury is open with Class D as I am yet to hear them, but generally I'd have to disagree with what you are saying.

I've never bought overly expensive kit, but there is a difference in build quality and sound quality and that opinion is coming from listening to and using lots of different makes and manufacturers.

JBL are a speaker that I've never liked as I think they are very harsh and they have a badge and are reasonably expensive.

[Danno13]

Danno, while I completely accept your logic re cost effectiveness of high end systems, I will never have 5k to spend on a PA unless I win the lottery!

In my day job, we have tools which we regard as disposable, and will spend £20 or so on. We also have ones which are indispensable, and will spend £200-£600 on. Finding the £600 can be hard at times.

Thats fair enough, I was just trying to make a point and for the record, I've spend about £1800 on my PA system I use at the moment without including cables, cases and any stop-gaps inbetween.

Its not really fair to compare to your day job, as its not really in context.. you could be a beautician for all we know :D :D :D

I guess if any DJ did want to improve their PA it wouldn't be too drastic a move to get a loan of some sort, like many other businesses would do.

[PropellerHeadCase]

There's no single speaker manufacturer you could say that about, in my opinion. I use Mackie, and have used Peavey, Ohm, and EV... and have heard Class D, Bose, RCF and others in action, and I wouldn't say that any one is miles better than the other. I think when people say that, a lot of it is in their head - sort of like the people who only buy named brands, yet they wouldn't be able to tell the difference if they were blindfolded etc

Then again, feeling better about your sound is half the battle ;)



I think that's a bit of a sweeping statement. There is difference in sound quality in a lot of makes and brands.

I've heard Bose 302s and 802s and was impressed
I've heard Bose L1s and B2s and wasn't impressed
I use EVSXA100s and am impressed by them
I've heard a small EV system (cant remember which one now) and wasn't impressed.
I've heard Peavey UL series and was impressed.
The list could go on and on....

It also depends how and what you are using them for, what mixer you are using etc

And unless you test them with the same song through the same mixer, etc., etc. it'll never be a true comparison anyway. What if the speakers you thought weren't up to their rep were being demoed using a substandard mixer or amp (or accidentally used a cable with +ve/-ve switched)... oops!



My original point was based on a comment made by Alan...

...to which my reply was supposed to basically say that there is no speaker manufacturer that make their products vastly superior to any other.

And my response to both versions of your response is: It was a joke, dude :D



Well thats a bit of silly thing to say really. Why else would certain speakers be more expensive than others? Its not all just marketing... In the same way that a Jag is a hell of alot better than a Ford.

Well to be honest I don't see why more DJs can't justify the price of premium gear... i mean £5k (for say, a Nexo system) is not alot to pay in the long term... if it lasts 5 years thats less than 10% of turnover per year for most DJs I would have thought?

Expense doesn't necessarily equate to quality. Two identical systems, down to the solder used, can have a massive price differential if one is manufactured locally and the other is imported from, say, the US.

Jags don't exactly have a great reputation, at least not in NZ... when they're working they're beautiful, beautiful cars, but when they don't is often.

Taking a massively expensive sound system out on the road just doesn't make good fiscal sense - too many things can go wrong when you have punters with no security, moving between vehicle and venue, or even when IN the vehicle. You're better off spending the difference on a half decent back-up system.



Now that is silly! :mad: I reckon there are a lot of us on here who could never justify 5K on a PA system! I spent £500 at one point, and that was £100 over budget at that point!:eek:

Apart from anything else how many punters are audiophiles, and how many of them hire critical listening environments for their functions?



To be honest, Darren, I haven't heard a Nexo or Funktion 1 system, but I very much doubt they would overly impress me.

What's the point in getting audiophile PA equipment for an audience that is going to be drunk for approximately half the time? (and how many would notice when sober?)

Yep, agreed, see above.

[Excalibur]

Carlsboro I assume you are talking about and they've never really been top of the tree have they?

The jury is open with Class D as I am yet to hear them, but generally I'd have to disagree with what you are saying.

I've never bought overly expensive kit, but there is a difference in build quality and sound quality and that opinion is coming from listening to and using lots of different makes and manufacturers.

JBL are a speaker that I've never liked as I think they are very harsh and they have a badge and are reasonably expensive.


Carlsbro? You might think that, I couldn't possibly comment.;) ;)

They may not be as well regarded now as they once were, I completely agree, but once upon a time Carlsbro was one of the best badges to be sen to be using.

Seriously you really should hear the Class-D SP15's, it might change your opinion. Feel free to disagre with me Darren, it's OK cos I know I'm right. :p :D

PS If you're disagreeing with me you'll be agreeing with Rob Roy/Ron and you wouldn't want that would you? :confused: :confused: :D :D

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

They may not be as well regarded now as they once were, I completely agree, but once upon a time Carlsbro was one of the best badges to be sen to be using.

Agreed. For bands.


Seriously you really should hear the Class-D SP15's, it might change your opinion. Feel free to disagre with me Darren, it's OK cos I know I'm right. :p :D

I will feel free to disagree. ;)

I would like to hear the Class Ds, then I will give my honest opinion.

I honestly think once you use a certain standard of sound you can't go backwards. I also think you get used to your system and start to like it after a while.

[Danno13]

Expense doesn't necessarily equate to quality. Two identical systems, down to the solder used, can have a massive price differential if one is manufactured locally and the other is imported from, say, the US. Jags don't exactly have a great reputation, at least not in NZ... when they're working they're beautiful, beautiful cars, but when they don't is often.

I understand that, but then you'd always listen to a system before parting with cash for it. Generally speaking though, the higher the price, the higher the quality.. else they wouldn't sell!

And maybe Jags was a bad analogy, i'm not a car expert.. how about Alfa Romeo then... :D



Apart from anything else how many punters are audiophiles, and how many of them hire critical listening environments for their functions?

They don't have to be audiophiles, but the higher quality, the less offensive the mid and highs are, which allows a greater volume for the dancers without them having ringing ears at the end of the night. And others are able to have coversations away from the dancefloor area without being upset by the PA.

Its a really hard concept to explain until you actually experience it.

[Excalibur]

I also think you get used to your system and start to like it after a while.

Now there we really will disagree. Surely anyone who cares about the sound keeps listening to his /her system with a critical ear? I know I definitely do.

[Excalibur]

[QUOTE=Danno13;199616]I understand that, but then you'd always listen to a system before parting with cash for it. Generally speaking though, the higher the price, the higher the quality.. else they wouldn't sell!

QUOTE]

And is does the price difference on your pair of designer trainers correlate to the quality difference? Somehow I think not!

[Danno13]

I dunno.. i'm not a trainer expert.. but give me a blindfold and i'll tell you the difference between a decent pair of speakers and an average pair.

[good vibrations]

well all this over me thinking of buying some mackis

or would you suggest some others


no only joking my head is spinning

you are right say you need to listen to them using your own music sorce and the mixer that you intend to use with them which is what i am going to do.

[PropellerHeadCase]

They don't have to be audiophiles, but the higher quality, the less offensive the mid and highs are, which allows a greater volume for the dancers without them having ringing ears at the end of the night. And others are able to have coversations away from the dancefloor area without being upset by the PA.

The same can be achieved with a decent quality EQ and ring-testing the venue before playing - psycho-acoustics and all that - so long as the basic equipment is not inherently harsh with bad signature peaks a good EQ is all you need - and you can buy one for much less than the difference between a so-called mid- and high-end PA. High-end PAs have their place, obviously, I just don't think that even the most discerning clientele would justify the doubling (and more) in cost.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

The same can be achieved with a decent quality EQ and ring-testing the venue before playing - psycho-acoustics and all that - so long as the basic equipment is not inherently harsh with bad signature peaks a good EQ is all you need - and you can buy one for much less than the difference between a so-called mid- and high-end PA. High-end PAs have their place, obviously, I just don't think that even the most discerning clientele would justify the doubling (and more) in cost.

So you are saying that with a good eq, you can make average sounding gear sound like mid - high end gear? :confused:

[Danno13]

The same can be achieved with a decent quality EQ and ring-testing the venue before playing - psycho-acoustics and all that - so long as the basic equipment is not inherently harsh with bad signature peaks a good EQ is all you need - and you can buy one for much less than the difference between a so-called mid- and high-end PA. High-end PAs have their place, obviously, I just don't think that even the most discerning clientele would justify the doubling (and more) in cost.

I don't agree.. by using EQ to remove harsh parts of the track you end up loosing detail in the the overall sound and having an EQ (unless its a very high quality one, in which case you may as well spend the money on the speaker/amp upgrade) is going to add imperfections of its own.

Its far better to have speakers/amps/mixers etc. that can do it right in the first place.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Almost like putting a bodykit and spoilers on a 1.1 Fiesta.

Underneath it'll still be a 1.1 Fiesta.

[PropellerHeadCase]

So you are saying that with a good eq, you can make average sounding gear sound like mid - high end gear? :confused:

No, I'm saying that a good mid-range system, in a typical wedding scenario with a decent EQ will sound, to the punters at least, as good as if not better than a high-end system with little-to-no EQ. Speaker systems are like building your own recording studio - double your spend for a subjective 1% improvement in sound quality (after the initial bases are covered).

An absolute top of the range speaker system in a bad-sounding room is going to have minimal (if any) advantages over a good system with a good EQ. The point being that those speakers only truly differentiate themselves in a critical (or at least good) listening environment - in a real world, acoustically 'off' room your high end speaker system is more likely going to highlight the deficiencies of the room than anything else.

[kilmeedyman]

So you are saying that with a good eq, you can make average sounding gear sound like mid - high end gear? :confused:

He probably isn't but I can testify that some DJs seem to be able to use eq to make mid-high end gear sound like cheap rubbish.

The mind boggles :bang:

[PropellerHeadCase]

No, I'm saying that a good mid-range system, in a typical wedding scenario with a decent EQ will sound, to the punters at least, as good as if not better than a high-end system with little-to-no EQ. Speaker systems are like building your own recording studio - double your spend for a subjective 1% improvement in sound quality (after the initial bases are covered).

An absolute top of the range speaker system in a bad-sounding room is going to have minimal (if any) advantages over a good system with a good EQ. The point being that those speakers only truly differentiate themselves in a critical (or at least good) listening environment - in a real world, acoustically 'off' room your high end speaker system is more likely going to highlight the deficiencies of the room than anything else.


He probably isn't but I can testify that some DJs seem to be able to use eq to make mid-high end gear sound like cheap rubbish.

The mind boggles :bang:

Oh, yeah, it takes a special kind of talent to make good gear sound bad.

[Dragonfly]

Almost like putting a bodykit and spoilers on a 1.1 Fiesta.

Underneath it'll still be a 1.1 Fiesta.

agreed !!! every time i see a boy racer in a corsa i have to relent to the overwhelming urge to wind the window down and scream "IT'S JUST A CORSA!!!!":D :D :D

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

agreed !!! every time i see a boy racer in a corsa i have to relent to the overwhelming urge to wind the window down and scream "IT'S JUST A CORSA!!!!":D :D :D

Is that after you blow them away in your 1.1 Fiesta? :D

[good vibrations]

The question I started this thread with is now is irrelevant as I have been to Electo Sound and now have a pair. I would like to just say a big thank you to all that have contributed and kind offers of a demo.

But alas another question which I will be contacting Electro Sound about is when I demoed them there was a lot of buzzing with the speakers. He put this down to me using a laptop with an external sound card and placed a DTI filter which seemed to cure the problem but on setting them up at home the buzzing is still there but not as bad gets worse when you take the filter out.
He said that he has come across this before and a DTI filter may solve the problem but suggested a bet quality sound card my cure the problem the sound card by the way is a creative sound blaster audigy anyone got any thoughts, ideas, or suggestions

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

The question I started this thread with is now is irrelevant as I have been to Electo Sound and now have a pair. I would like to just say a big thank you to all that have contributed and kind offers of a demo.

But alas another question which I will be contacting Electro Sound about is when I demoed them there was a lot of buzzing with the speakers. He put this down to me using a laptop with an external sound card and placed a DTI filter which seemed to cure the problem but on setting them up at home the buzzing is still there but not as bad gets worse when you take the filter out.
He said that he has come across this before and a DTI filter may solve the problem but suggested a bet quality sound card my cure the problem the sound card by the way is a creative sound blaster audigy anyone got any thoughts, ideas, or suggestions

You need ground loop isolators. One for each channel if you have a multi channel card. They will stop the noise and are very inexpensive.

The guy in the shop should have known about this issue - it's very common.

[good vibrations]

is the DTI filter not a ground loop isolator

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

is the DTI filter not a ground loop isolator

I've never heard of a DTI filter - what does it stand for?

[good vibrations]

Dual transfomer/isolator which is a ground loop isolator

cant see the hum being a problem when playing music but for any speaches could be a pain

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Dual transfomer/isolator which is a ground loop isolator

You live and learn. :)

And are you sure it does the same job?

HHve youtried taking the mains transformer out and running on battery - if the noise disappears you know its the ground loop.

Then maybe it's worth looking at a better card which is made for the job rather than a generic sound card.

[good vibrations]

Will try that let you know thanks

[Tom]

agreed !!! every time i see a boy racer in a corsa i have to relent to the overwhelming urge to wind the window down and scream "IT'S JUST A CORSA!!!!":D :D :D

oi....i have a corsa. i dont race people i just time myself how quickly i can get my hand from the 10-2 position to the radio, turn it up and back to 10-2 again. :D:D:D


Is that after you blow them away in your 1.1 Fiesta? :D

Mines a 1.2i. The i makes all the difference. lol. :D

[good vibrations]

Took the mains transformer out and yes you where right it stopped the noise so if the ground loop hasnt stopped it then could it be my sound card if so which card do you recomend

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Took the mains transformer out and yes you where right it stopped the noise so if the ground loop hasnt stopped it then could it be my sound card if so which card do you recomend

Before you buy, please don't think this will guarantee your problem will go. I would honestly try a couple of ground loop isolators first - I know you said you have use the same sort of thing, so perhaps you can post up what they are before we go any further with this?

I'd hate to recommend a sound card only to find the same problem with it.

[good vibrations]

I do not have any kind of buzz or hum on the mic channels.
It is only the channel with my music the DTI which i have spoken about is a ground loop isolator which is brand new £35 so not a cheap one do you suggest me trying a different one

Never had this problem when using my passive speaker set up
I bought a new mixer at the same time as the speackers would this have any effect

[spin mobile disco]

Seems a bit on the expensive side for a ground loop isolator.
The soundblaster audigy is a good soundcard for games and for general music applications but not good for disco applications. I have heard of many people having problems with them in live gigs. I know it is expensive but a soundcard designed for disco and p.a applications would be better.
Not saying this would help current problem but may solve other problems you don't know you have yet. A couple of ways to get rid of hum from actives you can try some or all of the following im sure others will come up with more but heres my list:
1. Make sure your speakers are on a different mains circuit to your mixer and decks.
2. Make sure you use shielded cables on your signal leads. I didnt once and it took ages to track down the problem.
3. Try different leads mains and signal and see if it stops.
4. Use a ground loop isolator on each signal lead seperately.
5. Make sure that the mains cable to each speaker is not wound around or running to close to the signal cable (this always creates hum)
5. Check e.q mackies are on the trebly side so simply turning them down a bit on the upper and mid can fix some of this.
6. Check your decks to mixer cables are ok and not tangled with any mains cables. Try unplugging them and checking the system this will also tell you where the ground loop is occuring.
7. Unplug the mixer from the signal leads to the speakers and see if the hum stops.

It is also not unkown for transformers to hum when they have a fault. I had an led par that did this and whenever it was on made a hum also a mic with same problem. Turned out the mic had been wired wrong and the par had a faulty transformer. Got it changed and now no hum.

[good vibrations]

Tell me about it didnt really know much about them until now live and learn. and still have the buzz/humm

[spin mobile disco]

Forgot to say laptops are not earthed and can cause problems in a disco enviroment. Can be fixed by battery mode or running a soundcard that has an external power supply.

[spin mobile disco]

Had a look back at some of the earlier threads in this post just to get some history on the problem and someone said about how much you spend on your sound system. Thsi is actually quite interesting (maybe only to me) but it made me think about how much our playout systems cost us.
About 3 years ago I cam back to DJ'ng after a short break. As I had not much money I bought some skytec speakers some cables from maplin for connecting and ran them from my old BMS amp. Whole playout system (amp down this is not counting mixer or decks) cost about £300 to put together.
And to be honest it sounded pretty good. In fact in some ways I would consider the quality as good or better than my current setup. I know they were cheap parts but they sounded good and lasted me over a year. They didnt break I just decided to upgrade.

My new playout system consists of 2 mackie c300z's, 1 db sub15 , 2 rse amplifiers. The book value on this system is about £3000. But although it can fill larger venue's than the old system and it is all branded products I dont really feel that it sounds any better than the cheap setup I had before. Maybe louder (well ok definatly louder) and cost 10 times the amount but I doubt it will really last much longer in the long run than the cheap stuff would have done if treated right.
Any one else worked out how much there system would cost? not willy waving here just interested in comments . Did you spend a fortune and wish you didnt, or maybe bought cheap speakers and are glad you did?

[Tom]

my speakers come to just under £1000 for a 1.6k rig. Thats 2 speakers from studiospares (said in another recent thread) and 1 db sub 15. Can cater for 600 people in a meduim sized hall believe it or not.

i dont think thats willy waving. just saying the truth.

[rob1963]

Can cater for 600 people in a medium sized hall believe it or not.

Can you get 600 people in a medium sized hall?

[spin mobile disco]

Sardine fashion maybe lol

[rob1963]

Can you get 600 people in a medium sized hall?


Sardine fashion maybe lol

:Laugh:

[BeerFunk]

Must have been a very large medium sized hall :D

[Tom]

Sardine fashion maybe lol

It was very that. lol. But people still had room to dance and move about but it was only like that for about 20 mins till the new year.