Cowboy dj shot himself yeeha!!!

[soundmaster mobile disco]

Just got a phone call from a distraught woman,Its her daughters birthday party on Friday night in the local town hall,As you djs will know you will not get into a council building unless you can provide a current up to date pat test certificate plus pli .

Guess what? the DJ does not have any of these requirements so he will not be allowed in the council building to play HA HA.

I feel sorry for the mother trying desperately to arrange a disco for friday night at such short notice.

When will people learn that the cheapest is not always the best.Bye the way he was charging £90 for the night.I wonder how many other people have had an electric shock when the go near the disco!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[djsteve10]

It's the same old 2 way argument, some £90 - £130 dj's are very good and have some good equipment and are fully booked with work, great for them but then on the other hand there is this kind of dj where they have no PAT Or PLI and when asked to provide it they jump overboard.

It is the same old argument that is going to go on for years and years and will never change, Each to their own at the end of the day i say

[Paul James Promotions]

There is a market where people pay for a good service, and a market where people want a job doing at the cheapest possible price. Plenty of work in both markets.

[djsteve10]

There is a market where people pay for a good service, and a market where people want a job doing at the cheapest possible price. Plenty of work in both markets.

yep exactly, i am aiming for the big corporate market at the moment.

[Andy Westcott]

And I'm sticking at (or near) the lower end.
Doesn't get too crowded then! :)

[colint]

and because he hasn't pli or pat don't make him a cowboy, just a bit or a risk!

I had my gear tested it passed like this:

[Jiggles]

Hopefully that will make him think about things now :D

[A1DL]

Colin - the first pic looks like a 240v inline connector with 3 cables crammed into it, with the assistance of some ins tape, which agreed is pretty poor and would constitute a visual failure, as the connector was not designed for this purpose and the cord grip could not be intact across all the outer sheathing.

However, unless I'm missing something obvious, I cannot see anything wrong with the second pic from a safety perspective, we're looking at amp terminals to speakon fascia sockets, albeit connected with mains cable - right?

Tony

[Penfold42]

and because he hasn't pli or pat don't make him a cowboy, just a bit or a risk!

Right 'Tin Hat On'....
:agree:
Not a cowboy just taking too many risk's.....and not asking the right questions when he should be.....IMO..:)

[blitz]

nice one gary, that will be his beer money for the weekend up the spout,

[wensleydale]

but this is in no way a good thing as it makes the customer think even less of mobile discos.
I still also think something is being missed here- just because someone doesnt have pli and pat doesnt mean they are a cowboy-- in the same way that anyone can get pli and pat very easily and still be a true "cowboy" in my mind.

[rob1963]

but this is in no way a good thing as it makes the customer think even less of mobile discos.

No...only the original disco they booked, which didn't satisfy the requirements to be able to work at the venue.

If I booked a plumber, and for whatever reason he let me down, I wouldn't automatically think ALL plumbers were crap.


just because someone doesnt have pli and pat doesnt mean they are a cowboy.

Agreed.

It just means they are less professional than someone who DOES have PLI & PAT.

If you read the definitions of "professional" you'll see that it's also possible for a mobile DJ to be professional & a cowboy at the same time!

[Penfold42]

:agree:

:thumbsup: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[colint]

Colin - the first pic looks like a 240v inline connector with 3 cables crammed into it, with the assistance of some ins tape, which agreed is pretty poor and would constitute a visual failure, as the connector was not designed for this purpose and the cord grip could not be intact across all the outer sheathing.

However, unless I'm missing something obvious, I cannot see anything wrong with the second pic from a safety perspective, we're looking at amp terminals to speakon fascia sockets, albeit connected with mains cable - right?

Tony

your dead right! the cables are soldered onto the i.e.c socket (it's filtered hence the length) & it doesn't have a cable grip at all? but the main reason it shouls have failed is the tape could very easily be pulled off exposing the live mains

The second pic is just to show the pat sticker, but I would as a rule never put mains and low voltage on the same plate, just a personal thing
(I inherited this pre-wired and this is my spare rack) it's now sorted!

the point I was trying to make is just because my kit is tested dosen't make it any safer than someone who hasn't had their gear tested, for all we know davy double decks may have all new equipment and it's all fine and dandy

I would guess the are more than a few Dj's, karaoke's, bands out there that have neither pat or pli and have no intention of getting it either just to save a few quid! Untill something goes wrong! then it's to late damage done!

[A1DL]

the point I was trying to make is just because my kit is tested dosen't make it any safer than someone who hasn't had their gear tested, for all we know davy double decks may have all new equipment and it's all fine and dandy


Colin's post certainly highlights that there are very varying standards of PAT testing. This was one of the reasons about 5 years ago, we insisted on all A1 DJs being tested inhouse, as opposed to having the option of supplying a certificate.

[Dragonfly]

Colin's post certainly highlights that there are very varying standards of PAT testing. This was one of the reasons about 5 years ago, we insisted on all A1 DJs being tested inhouse, as opposed to having the option of supplying a certificate.

or just getting one off the internet ..... which happened to me last year mine got pinched off my website.

[colint]

The other thing of course is anyone can go out and buy a pat tester,labels etc and set themselves up to pat test other people's electricial stuff without any training or experience which to me is a real worry,

I've even been thinking about it myself I've looked at a top of the range system for about £700 second hand and it wouldn't take long to get my money back either!
But in the wrong hands? scary!

See here:
http://www.pat-training.co.uk/second_user_pat.htm

[rob1963]

The other thing of course is anyone can go out and buy a pat tester,labels etc and set themselves up to pat test other people's electricial stuff without any training or experience which to me is a real worry

I thought you had to pass an exam & get specially qualified to be able to do PAT testing?

My brother is an electronics engineer, but he can't PAT test, as he doesnt have the relevant qualifications.

Luckily there is someone in one of my pub quiz teams who is qualified & does my testing for nothing.

[colint]

I thought you had to pass an exam & get specially qualified to be able to do PAT testing?

My brother is an electronics engineer, but he can't PAT test, as he doesnt have the relevant qualifications.

Luckily there is someone in one of my pub quiz teams who is qualified & does my testing for nothing.

there is nothing to stop you buying a pat tester tomorrow (for as little as £200.00) and setting youself up to test other peoples (or your own) stuff you just have to be a compitent person, no qualifications are required at the moment, so your brother is more than qualified!

[Tom]

intresting....

[Danno13]

I'm sure if it came down to it your PLI insurers could use that as a way to get out of playing out, should the worst happen.

Plus, if you're not qualified then you run the risk of passing (and then using) something that could be potentially lethal.. not a risk I'd be prepared to take personally, for the sake of <£200 per year.

[colint]

So? without some sort of enforcment how do you know the tester your (any of us) is qualified to do the job correctly?

[Andy Westcott]

I do my own PAT as I have a good knowledge of electronics/electrics anyhow, and understand what's involved. (heck - I was building transmitters at 14!) If I was relying on another person to do this, I would want to see qualifications as I couldn't otherwise trust tem to be 'competent' which is all the current recommendation requires, and this is open to abuse. A guy at my day job does the PAT there, and really hasn't got a clue what he's testing for:
"I just press the button and it passes or fails."
Hmmm...

Despite the fact that it would cost me money - either by having to pay a qualified tester or to attain the qualifications myself, I would like to see this whole PAT thing tightened up.

[rob1963]

there is nothing to stop you buying a pat tester tomorrow (for as little as £200.00) and setting youself up to test other peoples (or your own) stuff you just have to be a compitent person, no qualifications are required at the moment, so your brother is more than qualified!

That's interesting, Colin.

I was wrongly under the impression that you had to be especially qualified in order to do PAT testing.

Thanks for the information.

:)

[Corabar Steve]

Don't know how you managed that Rob, it's been said on here enough times

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Yeah, concentrate at the back there James....:sj:

[Danno13]

So? without some sort of enforcment how do you know the tester your (any of us) is qualified to do the job correctly?

Ask to see qualifications and use a reputable company.

[daz226]

i have been told as all my gear is new every bit of it i do not require pat testing for 2 years can any one shed some light on this or have i been given some duff information

[A1DL]

i have been told as all my gear is new every bit of it i do not require pat testing for 2 years can any one shed some light on this or have i been given some duff information

that is incorrect Daz. you would be surprised at the amount of "new" equipment that I PAT test for DJs and find loose or incorrectly wired connectors.

[colint]

i have been told as all my gear is new every bit of it i do not require pat testing for 2 years can any one shed some light on this or have i been given some duff information

You see! thats what I mean when I say there badly needs to be some sort of regulations regarding pat testing? no one quiet know's the full implications of any of this, and it should have guidelines just like any thing else to do with electrics, at least then everyone would know where they stand.

[rob1963]

I was wrongly under the impression that you had to be especially qualified in order to do PAT testing.


Don't know how you managed that Rob, it's been said on here enough times

I guess I must pay better attention to all posts!


Yeah, concentrate at the back there James....:sj:

:eek: :boxer2: :p

[daz226]

ok ill get on to getting all my gear pat tested as soon as possible now then is there anyone here in the dorset area that does it. also what is the cost of this and how long does it take and last i take it it is a yearly thing. I would rather have than not have it.

Thanks for the advise

[robbiedj]

i have been told as all my gear is new every bit of it i do not require pat testing for 2 years can any one shed some light on this or have i been given some duff information

Carol is a Lab tech in a college. They once had a new set of power packs that were tested on arrival. Of 12 units only 1 did not have a minor fault. Some were wired back to front. 1 had the positive going to the earth. These would have been used by students if they hadn't been tested.

[sleah]

i have been told as all my gear is new every bit of it i do not require pat testing for 2 years can any one shed some light on this or have i been given some duff information


that is incorrect Daz. you would be surprised at the amount of "new" equipment that I PAT test for DJs and find loose or incorrectly wired connectors.

Actually Daz isn't incorrect as such, but maybe badly advised. As has been mentioned several times before, there is no requirement for anything to be PAT tested at all, not by law or HSE regs at any rate.
HOWEVER, most PLI will require PAT be done and many venues, especially council run, require any gear be PAT'd before it's allowed to be used.

As to the interval and wether or not to do new gear is all down to personal preference and/or small print in PLI certs / venue local regulations.

[A1DL]

As to the interval and wether or not to do new gear is all down to personal preference and/or small print in PLI certs / venue local regulations.

Test intervals are detailed within the IET Code of Practice for in-service inspection and testing of electrical equipment.

Within the professional sound & lighting industry, annual formal testing is the norm.

If "new" equipment is omitted from testing, as I have pointed out earlier, equipment could be used in an unsafe state until the first PAT test.

Such is the nature of the beast that there are plenty of clueless spotty teenagers working in disco shops on Saturdays wiring up IEC320 plugs with the wrong polarity! :eek:

[Corabar Steve]

ok ill get on to getting all my gear pat tested as soon as possible now then is there anyone here in the dorset area that does it.



I do my own PAT

Close enough :sj: :sj:

[spin mobile disco]

I must admit as I have a long electrical background it was tempting to buy a PAT tester and do inhouse testing. I check all my gear anyway and it was really just a formality to be tested (only ever had one unit fail test and it was new so just sent it back) but I felt that having equipment tested by outside contractor would look better to a client rather than doing it myself.
I realise this is just my opinion but thought it had some merit.
Back on topic anyway, did about half a dozen gigs last year due to other booked DJ failing to show relevent PAT or pli. Made me happy as I got paid but how many are out there without either pat or pli, an accident waiting to happen.

[wensleydale]

i think the uncertainty about this goes to prove my point at the start that a lot of cowboys can easily get their kit pat tested.

in my mind part of being professional is regular checks yourself, but more importantly knowing what you are required to do/not do in the running of your company.

[sleah]

i think the uncertainty about this goes to prove my point at the start that a lot of cowboys can easily get their kit pat tested.

in my mind part of being professional is regular checks yourself, but more importantly knowing what you are required to do/not do in the running of your company.

Probably the best reply to this thread yet!

And part of those requirements are reading your PLI and see what they require by way of PAT and complying with that. They may be happy for you to do in house test if you're competant. If your insurers are happy, then so should your clients/venues.
H&S is also part of running a professional business. E.G. compying with guidlines when using lasers or dry ice. Keeping a printed copy of such guidlines in your client folder would do no harm and demonstrates professionalism.