how do you mould your sound?

[Jaggiebunnett]

Modern music for the past 7 years or so especially rock stuff is apparently being recorded at or around the +4db mark
I was told it was akin to when a band is playing and a bass drum hits hard and seems to swallow up all the PA headroom and pushes down the other instruments volume.
This type of compression has been duplicated using modern recording technology, so everything now sounds kinda squished distorted and overdriven (and louder).
Apparently this is done for the sake of radio because of the way music is compressed before it goes out (the narrow band width matches well)
So the question is, how do you all cope with making this sound listenable at your discos when someone requests the heavy stuff? or do you just not play it?

[BrightLights]

Music is quite heavily compressed in recent years to make it sound more consistently "loud", but not usually so much as to cause the kind of bass pumping you're talking about (although occasionally it's done as an intentional effect).

There's not much you can do to remove compression after the fact, and if it was applied properly in the first place you shouldn't need to. If you use any kind of compressor yourself you could tweak/back it off a bit if it starts becoming too noticeable, but other than that just carry on as normal...

[Jaggiebunnett]

The Bass drum thing was an example of sound compression to paint a picture of how this particular compression works.:D
A regular compressor limiter will give you very little joy in this respect.

[Tony Scott]

I've found that since I upgraded my sound system (to 4/5way active with a Digital Speaker Management System) this has been much less of a problem. I can pretty much throw anything at it and it sounds sweet.

I put it down to better definition and control of the Mid-range freq's. I think this is where a lot of 2-way passive boxes are lacking.

That's my theory anyway! :)

[BrightLights]

A regular compressor limiter will give you very little joy in this respect.

Indeed, hence:


If you use any kind of compressor yourself you could tweak/BACK IT OFF a bit if it starts becoming too noticeable

...since you wouldn't want your compressor/limiter adding to the problem.

[Jaggiebunnett]

I've found that since I upgraded my sound system (to 4/5way active with a Digital Speaker Management System) this has been much less of a problem. I can pretty much throw anything at it and it sounds sweet.

I put it down to better definition and control of the Mid-range freq's. I think this is where a lot of 2-way passive boxes are lacking.

That's my theory anyway! :)

yea Tony, refining my system is part of the fun for me, and it seems thats the way to go. I use a Rane active 10+10 eq (replaced my Furman one...huge difference )plus a Rane active 2 way crossover and an Alesis comp/limiter (for speaker protection)
What speakers and amps do you use Tony?

[Excalibur]

What speakers and amps do you use Tony?


Oh no!:eek: You shouldn't have asked that question, mate. :( :( He'll take great delight in telling us now, in every detail. Those of us with only a 3k rig are going to feel inferior again.:bang: Now where's that sofa? :sofa:

[Tony Scott]

[QUOTE=Tony Scott;200904]I've found that since I upgraded my sound system (to 4/5way active with a Digital Speaker Management System) this has been much less of a problem. I can pretty much throw anything at it and it sounds sweet.

I put it down to better definition and control of the Mid-range freq's. I think this is where a lot of 2-way passive boxes are lacking.

That's my theory anyway! :)[/QUOTE

yea Tony, refining my system is part of the fun for me, and it seems thats the way to go. I use a Rane active 10+10 eq (replaced my Furman one...huge difference )plus a Rane active 2 way crossover and an Alesis comp/limiter (for speaker protection)
What speakers and amps do you use Tony?

Me too, I love tweaking and getting the system set up just right.
Love that Rane stuff, I used to DJ at a club where thay had an MP Rotary Mixer, such a joy to use.


The full system:

Sub:............2x Precision Devices PD1850 (Folded Horns) 18"
Bass:...........2x Celestion 18" (Reflex Cabs) + 2x Celestion 15" (Reflex Cabs)
Mid:............2x Martin Audio 8" 2x Celestion 6"(Horns)
High:...........2x Fane + 2x Celestion Neo (Horns)
Super High:..2x Eminence (Bullet Horns)

The cut down system:

Sub/Bass:....2x Celestion 18" (Reflex Cabs)
Bass:..........2x Celestion 15" (Reflex Cabs)
Mid:............2x Martin Audio 8" (Horns)
High:...........2x Celestion Neo (Horns)

Amps are a bit of a mixture:

3xBehringers, Martin Audio, TOA, A very old AMCRON.
I am looking at getting rid of 2 x Behringers for an 'Infinite 8 mk2' in the near future: http://www.proaudioparts.co.uk/infinite.asp, just got to convince the wife!! :D


Oh no!:eek: You shouldn't have asked that question, mate. :( :( He'll take great delight in telling us now, in every detail. Those of us with only a 3k rig are going to feel inferior again.:bang: Now where's that sofa? :sofa:

You know me so well!!!!!! :D :D :D 5K by the way!;)

[spin mobile disco]

I edited all my music and changed the overall max level to 94-96 db This meant that the peaks were no longer causing distortion clips at pre amp level.
However this doesnt help some songs that that are already corrupt due to bad compression at the start.

[Jaggiebunnett]

[QUOTE=Jaggiebunnett;200909]

Me too, I love tweaking and getting the system set up just right.
Love that Rane stuff, I used to DJ at a club where thay had an MP Rotary Mixer, such a joy to use.


The full system:

Sub:............2x Precision Devices PD1850 (Folded Horns) 18"
Bass:...........2x Celestion 18" (Reflex Cabs) + 2x Celestion 15" (Reflex Cabs)
Mid:............2x Martin Audio 8" 2x Celestion 6"(Horns)
High:...........2x Fane + 2x Celestion Neo (Horns)
Super High:..2x Eminence (Bullet Horns)

The cut down system:

Sub/Bass:....2x Celestion 18" (Reflex Cabs)
Bass:..........2x Celestion 15" (Reflex Cabs)
Mid:............2x Martin Audio 8" (Horns)
High:...........2x Celestion Neo (Horns)

Amps are a bit of a mixture:

3xBehringers, Martin Audio, TOA, A very old AMCRON.
I am looking at getting rid of 2 x Behringers for an 'Infinite 8 mk2' in the near future: http://www.proaudioparts.co.uk/infinite.asp, just got to convince the wife!! :D

Sweet!
Takes me over an hour to set up my stuff and being an old fart of 41 I decline to carry any 1 metre cubes or bigger..lol.
I use
Bass:...........Electrovoice Eliminator 18' subs (400w rms, 1600w peak)
Mid-Bass:.....Peavey "low rider" 15 front loaded subs (800w rms 3200w peak)
Mid-top:...Modified Bose 802 with a celestion HF 50 (that crosses over at about 9khz)
But only running at about 4k I'm afraid;)

2x Mackie 1400i (each in 4 ohm bridge mode)
1x (80's) Peavey DECA 1200 in stereo for the Bose.

extra stuff to make it bigger or just back up
2 x Modified Bose 901 series 6 (Celestion HF 50 on top too)
2 x Peavey sp2ti
1 x Peavey DECA 700
and a 1972 (weighs 40 kilos) Harmon Kardon Citation 16 amp
150w per side..very "musical" amp:)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Oooh, is this going in a willy waving direction? :sj:

[Jaggiebunnett]

Oooh, is this going in a willy waving direction? :sj:

never had any complaints:beatnik:

[CRAZY K]

[QUOTE=Tony Scott;200920]

Sweet!
Takes me over an hour to set up my stuff and being an old fart of 41 I decline to carry any 1 metre cubes or bigger..lol.
I use
Bass:...........Electrovoice Eliminator 18' subs (400w rms, 1600w peak)
Mid-Bass:.....Peavey "low rider" 15 front loaded subs (800w rms 3200w peak)
Mid-top:...Modified Bose 802 with a celestion HF 50 (that crosses over at about 9khz)
But only running at about 4k I'm afraid;)

2x Mackie 1400i (each in 4 ohm bridge mode)
1x (80's) Peavey DECA 1200 in stereo for the Bose.

extra stuff to make it bigger or just back up
2 x Modified Bose 901 series 6 (Celestion HF 50 on top too)
2 x Peavey sp2ti
1 x Peavey DECA 700
and a 1972 (weighs 40 kilos) Harmon Kardon Citation 16 amp
150w per side..very "musical" amp:)

Interesting--is this a culture thing?

Is everything in America is "bigger" or are there a lot of venues potentially you may play that need ear blasting levels of sound?

Do you get to play in front of larger numbers of people on average than we do?

As you will know in the UK a lot of the venues for domestic Disco work dont often need much more than a couple of decent speakers with maybe subs.

Unless you move up to larger venues with bigger sound requirements.

Interested to hear what the market is over there---and where your sound system fits in the market.

Im a Peavey man myself ( I run an American made XR800F Powered mixer)

CRAZY K

[Tony Scott]

[QUOTE=Tony Scott;200920]

Sweet!
Takes me over an hour to set up my stuff and being an old fart of 41 I decline to carry any 1 metre cubes or bigger..lol.
I use
Bass:...........Electrovoice Eliminator 18' subs (400w rms, 1600w peak)
Mid-Bass:.....Peavey "low rider" 15 front loaded subs (800w rms 3200w peak)
Mid-top:...Modified Bose 802 with a celestion HF 50 (that crosses over at about 9khz)
But only running at about 4k I'm afraid;)

2x Mackie 1400i (each in 4 ohm bridge mode)
1x (80's) Peavey DECA 1200 in stereo for the Bose.

extra stuff to make it bigger or just back up
2 x Modified Bose 901 series 6 (Celestion HF 50 on top too)
2 x Peavey sp2ti
1 x Peavey DECA 700
and a 1972 (weighs 40 kilos) Harmon Kardon Citation 16 amp
150w per side..very "musical" amp:)

Loving that lot, those EV Eliminators really move some air don't they? Never heard the Peavey 'Low Riders' though.

The HF 50's must sound nice xd'over at 9kHz, very clean I bet. I x-over my APT50's(eminence) at 7kHz but I don't think they would be as crisp as your celestions.

How do you get on with the 120v thing, must pull a lot of ampres for 4k + lights, do they compensate with their mains supplies, 16, 32, 64 amp etc? :)

[Jaggiebunnett]

[QUOTE=Jaggiebunnett;200962]

Interesting--is this a culture thing?

Is everything in America is "bigger" or are there a lot of venues potentially you may play that need ear blasting levels of sound?

Do you get to play in front of larger numbers of people on average than we do?

As you will know in the UK a lot of the venues for domestic Disco work dont often need much more than a couple of decent speakers with maybe subs.

Unless you move up to larger venues with bigger sound requirements.

Interested to hear what the market is over there---and where your sound system fits in the market.

Im a Peavey man myself ( I run an American made XR800F Powered mixer)

CRAZY K
Remember it's not how big it is but how you use it'
Seriously I'm not pushing out that many decibels, the more you refine your sound system though the more power you will need
In order for one amplifier to reproduce sound twice as loud as another in Decibels you need 10 times more wattage output. An amplifier rated at 100 WPC is capable of twice the volume level of a 10 WPC amp, an amplifier rated at 100 watts per channel needs to be 1,000 watts per channel to be twice as loud. In other words, the relationship between volume and wattage output is logarithmic rather than linear.

all my stuff fits into a 4x6x5 trailer and my speakers are not that efficient since they are not that big.

I am my own worst enemy (and my wallet's) when it comes to updating and modifying my sound system.
As far as the venue is concerned, if its a big hall its going to sound like a tin can no matter what' and if its a really nice function room with big curtains, carpet and acoustic ceiling tiles you will run out of power quickly.
I guess its the "boy scout' thing .."be prepared"
my system sounds sweet at very low volumes (apart from the noise from the extra cooling fans so I could fit 3 amps in a 6 space rack)
I also like to get there early sometimes and put on some of my fav tunes and crank it to clipping and sit in a chair out on the dancefloor, if my ears don't ring and the hair on the back of my neck stands up then its spot on.

[Harrison's Discos]

[QUOTE=CRAZY K ROADSHOW;200976]
I also like to get there early sometimes and put on some of my fav tunes and crank it to clipping and sit in a chair out on the dancefloor, if my ears don't ring and the hair on the back of my neck stands up then its spot on.

Well im with you there!
No point in spending all that money out if you carn't get some personal enjoyment out of it :)

[Jaggiebunnett]

[QUOTE=Jaggiebunnett;200962]

Loving that lot, those EV Eliminators really move some air don't they? Never heard the Peavey 'Low Riders' though.

The HF 50's must sound nice xd'over at 9kHz, very clean I bet. I x-over my APT50's(eminence) at 7kHz but I don't think they would be as crisp as your celestions.

How do you get on with the 120v thing, must pull a lot of ampres for 4k + lights, do they compensate with their mains supplies, 16, 32, 64 amp etc? :)

The EV subs are nice and quite light and easy to carry too, the Low Rider (http://www.andysmusiconline.com/products/peavey_low_rider_15.html) is a relatively new product and is aimed as an upgrade for your weaker 15 or 18s

Took forever to get the HF50s from ebay just kept checking though till some came up. picked up a second set a year later for 10% of what I paid for the first.:) Fell in love with their sound 20 years ago:D

120v is a pain so I carry alot of heavy extension cords.
I worked as a spark over here for 5 years so I have a great understanding of how things are wired but still the breakers pop from time to time:rolleyes:

Over here the mains into a house has 3 wires, 2 lives and one neutral, between either of the lives to neutral is (generally) 110v and between the 2 lives is 220v, (for dryers and cookers etc) it's is a bit safer than straight 240v since most shocks you would get would be to earth or neutral:) which is only 110v.