Professional or amateur

[ppentertainments]

Would you class yourself as a professional or amateur ??
What makes you a professional ??

Not just in this industry but in most people are always promoting themselves as professional but what actually do you think you need to achieve and deliver to be classed as a professional.

[Danno13]

There are mixed opinions on this. Mainly due to the fact that the word can have different meanings.

You can be professional if its your full time job, or your only source on income.

Or, it could also be a part time job, but you're professional due to the way you act and treat the business - using proper contracts, PAT and PLI, Registered for Tax etc.

Amatuer is a whole different thing altogether and implies that you're not very experienced and/or good.

[Richie]

Or, it could also be a part time job, but you're professional due to the way you act and treat the business - using proper contracts, PAT and PLI, Registered for Tax etc.



In my opinion, it is the above comment that makes someone a professional DJ.

[Tom]

Or, it could also be a part time job, but you're professional due to the way you act and treat the business - using proper contracts, PAT and PLI, Registered for Tax etc.




In my opinion, it is the above comment that makes someone a professional DJ.

I have to agree aswell. I am a part time DJ but i provide a profesional service whilst keeping inline with the rules and regulations as well as good pratice.

[Spirits High]

Would you class yourself as a professional or amateur ??
What makes you a professional ??

Not just in this industry but in most people are always promoting themselves as professional but what actually do you think you need to achieve and deliver to be classed as a professional.

I class myself as professional, as I have an above average knowledge of our business,

I know what I do is more "professional" job than the "jocks" I've seen locally to where I live,

I have what I would class as essential requirements, PLI , PAT, legal downloads etc.

And above all I believe in what i'm doing and the way i'm doing it, constantly trying to improve the service I give.

At the moment i'm part time but dont see why this should make you any less profesional than the full timers on here.


Now awaiting the "oooh hark at him" posts:D

[Richie]

Tottally agree with you there Spirits High, even if you only did one disco a year but carried this out as you have stated. You have provided a professional service to that client.

[DJmissbehaving]

Definately amateur for me. Iv only done a few gigs so far. Stil a long way for me to go yet before i will call myself a professional......i stil respect people regardless of being an amateur or a professional. Therefore, i dont think my attitude would change it would just be my experience that would change......
Does that even make sense??? haha

[PropellerHeadCase]

I'm A professional and I am Professional (at least I hope so) :D

[rob1963]

When this came up before, I found out how mis-understood & mis-used the word professional is...by me as well as many others!

If you check all definitions, you'll discover that someone who does 5 gigs a year, pays no tax, has no PLI or PAT testing, uses home CD players, has no lights, a 60 watt amp & sometimes doesn't even turn up can legitimately be described as a professional...making the word meaningless.

The word professional means completely different things to different people, as it can basically mean pretty much anything you want it to!

[Danno13]

I think its down to the way you use it...

I mean i often say that I'm a "full time professional company".... but thats not to say people who aren't full time, aren't professional.

I also say "being a professional company, we take our health and safety responsibilities seriously.. "

So I guess, my advice would be, if your going to use the term then use it alongside something that backs it up.. there's no point in just saying "I'm professional".

[rob1963]

I think its down to the way you use it...

I mean i often say that I'm a "full time professional company".... but thats not to say people who aren't full time, aren't professional.

I also say "being a professional company, we take our health and safety responsibilities seriously.. "

So I guess, my advice would be, if your going to use the term then use it alongside something that backs it up.. there's no point in just saying "I'm professional".

Fair comment, Danno.

I use the word professional several times on my website, and I know It means to me, but as for the people who read it...they can choose their own definitions.

It doesn't really matter, as it's a word which actually means very little.

[Danno13]

I don't think we should confuse actual beleifs with sales talk... seems to cause too much trouble when that happens!

[A1DL]

digressing slightly, but I always find it amusing when on websites/adverts, people quote they run/own a "proffesional buisness" (s.i.c.) and cannot spell either of those words correctly :rolleyes:

[JAMdisco]

I class myself as a proffesional as (as mentioned above) I follow my own strict guidelines eg. PAT, PLI, tax registered, legal downloads, accurate paperwork etc... I advertise as being a proffesional, reliable and affordable DJ.

Although I am part-time I have been involved in the entertainment industry for well over 15 years and have found that experience counts for a lot. And before you 'have a go' I'm not implying that "newbies" in the industry can not be professional as a proactive and positive attitiude has a lot to do with it.

[Vectis]

The day I starting using the phrase 'professional' to describe my business was the day after I received a letter from a customer thanking me for such a professional service.

But, in general, I'd expect a "professional" to follow all applicable guidelines, codes of practice and laws - so in our case that would be

Laws: HMRC registered for income tax, NI and if applicable VAT, distance selling regs, data protection act, licencing & copyright
CoP: adherance to CoPs set out by any professional bodies to which you belong, eg. NADJ
Guidelines: PAT, PLI, H&S, PRS et al

I also think that general service provider best practice applies, so offering written confirmations and contracts, a range of payment options, pre-sales meetings etc.

These define the professional.

The non-professional typically works for cash, nods and winks without a contract and usually manages to avoid most of the above.

[Corabar Steve]

When this came up before, Which of the many times was that?

It's all down to interpretation & regardless of your definition, you'll always get somebody who disagrees with you.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Which of the many times was that?

It's all down to interpretation & regardless of your definition, you'll always get somebody who disagrees with you.

Agreed.:p

[rob1963]

But, in general, I'd expect a "professional" to follow all applicable guidelines, codes of practice and laws - so in our case that would be

Laws: HMRC registered for income tax, NI and if applicable VAT, distance selling regs, data protection act, licencing & copyright
CoP: adherance to CoPs set out by any professional bodies to which you belong, eg. NADJ
Guidelines: PAT, PLI, H&S, PRS et al

I also think that general service provider best practice applies, so offering written confirmations and contracts, a range of payment options, pre-sales meetings etc.

These define the professional.

vectis...that's just what the word means to YOU, and it will mean different things to others. I found the following definitions in an online dictionary:

pro·fes·sion·al /prəˈfɛʃənl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[pruh-fesh-uh-nl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain: a professional builder.
2. of, pertaining to, or connected with a profession: professional studies.
3. appropriate to a profession: professional objectivity.
4. engaged in one of the learned professions: A lawyer is a professional person.
5. following as a business an occupation ordinarily engaged in as a pastime: a professional golfer.
6. making a business or constant practice of something not properly to be regarded as a business: “A salesman,” he said, “is a professional optimist.”
7. undertaken or engaged in as a means of livelihood or for gain: professional baseball.
8. of or for a professional person or his or her place of business or work: a professional apartment; professional equipment.
9. done by a professional; expert: professional car repairs.
–noun 10. a person who belongs to one of the professions, esp. one of the learned professions.
11. a person who earns a living in a sport or other occupation frequently engaged in by amateurs: a golf professional.
12. an expert player, as of golf or tennis, serving as a teacher, consultant, performer, or contestant; pro.
13. a person who is expert at his or her work: You can tell by her comments that this editor is a real professional.

The very first definition is the most interesting one to me "Following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain"

Therefore, if someone has a daytime job, but is also the worst cowboy DJ you could think of...because they DJ for gain, they can legitimately be described as professional, which as I've said before, makes the word pretty much meaningless.


The non-professional typically works for cash, nods and winks without a contract and usually manages to avoid most of the above.

I'm sure plenty of people would disagree with that definition.

With my pub quiz nights, I ALWAYS get paid in cash AND there is no contract...I just hand them an invoice at the end of the night, but this has nothing to do with being unprofessional.

[Vectis]

But, in general, I'd expect ...

AKA "in my opinion" :confused:



I'm sure plenty of people would disagree with that definition.

With my pub quiz nights, I ALWAYS get paid in cash AND there is no contract...I just hand them an invoice at the end of the night, but this has nothing to do with being unprofessional.

Well the very act of issuing an invoice thus creating a paper trail takes you out of the 'non-professional' camp :)

And I'm pretty sure we've all done a 'mates rates' cash-in-hand favour at some point...

My point was aimed at those whose entire business model follows that method.

[rob1963]

Well the very act of issuing an invoice thus creating a paper trail takes you out of the 'non-professional' camp :)


So you DO think I'm professional!

Wooohooo!

:banana: :beerchug: :D

[Vectis]

So you DO think I'm professional!

Wooohooo!

:banana: :beerchug: :D

Hang on... I didn't say that :D

I said you weren't a non-professional... not quite the same thing :beer1:

[rob1963]

Hang on... I didn't say that :D

I said you weren't a non-professional... not quite the same thing :beer1:

:jawdrop:

[A1DL]

digressing slightly, but I always find it amusing when on websites/adverts, people quote they run/own a "proffesional buisness" (s.i.c.) and cannot spell either of those words correctly :rolleyes:


I class myself as a proffesional as (as mentioned above)

:rolleyes:


And I'm pretty sure we've all done a 'mates rates' cash-in-hand favour at some point...


Not wanting to appear holier than thou, but I can honestly say that A1 Discos Limited has never done this in it's 10 years of trading.

The company has given away a handful of free discos as wedding presents etc to close family, and also done a handful of very low priced functions for close friends, where the company has taken a negative margin (because of paying the DJ more than the selling price).

However all such functions have had full client and DJ contracts in place and in the case of the latter (the reduced price functions), these are accounted for correctly in terms of sales ledger & VAT posting, the same as any other function is.

Tony

[ppentertainments]

When this came up before, I found out how mis-understood & mis-used the word professional is...by me as well as many others!

If you check all definitions, you'll discover that someone who does 5 gigs a year, pays no tax, has no PLI or PAT testing, uses home CD players, has no lights, a 60 watt amp & sometimes doesn't even turn up can legitimately be described as a professional...making the word meaningless.

The word professional means completely different things to different people, as it can basically mean pretty much anything you want it to!

Could not agree more Rob. To me the word does not really mean anything but people for some reason are often impressed when you use the word.

[theoloyla]

We have had threads before about what is and isnt professional. The easy answer to this thread lies in the question contained in the title "Are you professional or amateur?" It is much easier to define amateur. It is someone who does something not for financial reward. There are some members of this forum that that would apply to but otherwise most of us are by default professional. I am a big fan of the term semi-pro - but that opens up another can of worms on definition!

[PropellerHeadCase]

7. undertaken or engaged in as a means of livelihood or for gain: professional baseball.

It seems to me that this is the definition that encapsulates the whole DJing fraternity and what allows the hobbyist/bedroom DJ with no business acumen/ethics to call themselves professional when they start charging for it.



With my pub quiz nights, I ALWAYS get paid in cash AND there is no contract...I just hand them an invoice at the end of the night, but this has nothing to do with being unprofessional.

I think it's understood, Rob, that being "paid in cash" is not the same as a "cash gig". The term 'cash gig', as used colloquially, implies the lack of invoice/receipt and taxation/accountability that is not the case with you.



We have had threads before about what is and isnt professional. The easy answer to this thread lies in the question contained in the title "Are you professional or amateur?" It is much easier to define amateur. It is someone who does something not for financial reward. There are some members of this forum that that would apply to but otherwise most of us are by default professional. I am a big fan of the term semi-pro - but that opens up another can of worms on definition!

Surely until you define 'professional' you can't define 'semi-pro' as it would require an understanding of the former to give the latter meaning.

[rob1963]

Al, I completely agree with everything in your last post.

:D :D :D

[sleah]

Not wanting to appear holier than thou, but I can honestly say that A1 Discos Limited has never done this in it's 10 years of trading.

The company has given away a handful of free discos as wedding presents etc to close family, and also done a handful of very low priced functions for close friends, where the company has taken a negative margin (because of paying the DJ more than the selling price).

However all such functions have had full client and DJ contracts in place and in the case of the latter (the reduced price functions), these are accounted for correctly in terms of sales ledger & VAT posting, the same as any other function is.

Tony

Still 'mates-rates' though. A rate is simply a price structure, and as you have pointed out, you still carry out the business in the same way as if the gigs were paying your top rate.:cool:

'Mates-rates' has a bit of a stigma attached that implies you doing a *cough* cash job where you're not going to be concerned with PLI etc and it's a quick thrown together half-c*c*ed job.

In fact it means your prepared to drop your price to a very low level, just for mates but not the chav that rings up trying to haggle you down.:D


I'm darn sure that those of us who've been in the business a few years will have done/experienced ALL of the above:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[DazzyD]

I know the dictionary definition of "professional" but I agree that everyone has their own interpretation of the word. I consider myself a "professional" DJ because I act in a professional manner (i.e. in running the business, I am always concerned with rules and regs, do my best to offer a top-notch customer experience, take everything very seriously with quotes and contracts, etc).

In reality, and by the dictionary definition, I am only semi-pro as my day job is a well-paying civil servant job which pays the bills and helps me put a little bit aside each month. I was DJing for eight years before I got this job and built up a decent business. So, with the help of my business partners and our team, I can reap the rewards of both jobs making for one happy chappie!

[ross@rds]

Class myself as professional , run the company part - time but ive got PLI , PAT , registerd for tax etc i know what im doing and provide customers with a quality , reliable , professional service.

[theoloyla]

Surely until you define 'professional' you can't define 'semi-pro' as it would require an understanding of the former to give the latter meaning.
I said that the term semi-pro would open up another can of worms!
It seems to me that there is a lot of stron feeling about this because the word professional somehow implies better than amateur. This is not necessarily the case (although in most cases it is so). I happily tell people that I have earned a living from the music business for 42 years ergo I am a professional. There may well be an amateur who is much better than me but only dj's for fun. The big debate should be about standards and honesty - not whether you are professional or amateur. Stop the crooks who pay no tax or national insurance.