Playing With Bands ?

[ross@rds]

Hi all looking for your help here

been asked to dj at a 30th along with a band they are wanting to hook there mics to my equipment. Never played alongside a band so dont know if its good or bad experience , so looking for your help if you've done it before and also any tips before i decide if i want to do it or not cheers.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Unless they are paying you a hire fee, don't bother.

Why should they get paid and use your equipment?

They might damage your equipment too.

[Shaun]

:agree:

There's no way I would let them hook into my equipment.

[Excalibur]

Agree totally with Darren, it's a minefield. Best avoided if possible, since the two systems vary a lot in their requirements. If I understand that they merely want to run their MICS into yours, then you'd probably get away with that, except you'd be short of inputs at a guess. Requires much thought and consultation.

[TonyB]

I do it quite often and charge extra for the privilege :-)

If they have their own mixer and just want to plug into a channel on your mixer, make sure you use a DI box and you have a limiter.

When they say mic's, are they just vocals or instruments too?

I usually provide a separate mixer for the band thats mine and they get their fingers chopped off if they try to touch it :D

[Excalibur]

I do it quite often and charge extra for the privilege :-)

If they have their own mixer and just want to plug into a channel on your mixer, make sure you use a DI box and you have a limiter.

When they say mic's, are they just vocals or instruments too?

I usually provide a separate mixer for the band thats mine and they get their fingers chopped off if they try to touch it :D

I don't know how common this is, but one of my sadly now retired mixers had a Bus. This was basically an input into the mixer which was for the output of another mixer to feed. This meant you could accept the feed from a band or similar with ease.

[djsteve10]

Well i generally dont let bands plug into my Pa system but on the other hand i let singers as i have full control over their EQ. My one question is if they are a professional band and are playing at functions how can they be trading like this?
But for me i would say no and tell them to get a hire company in to bring them in a PA system that way they don't get the chance to damage your equipment and ruin somebodys day if anything should go wrong.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I had an agency near me supplying an Elvis impersonator too a function I was doing, ask me if he could borrow my PA. Of course I said, for the fee of £100. He got quite narky with me and I was glad that I didn't lend or hire it as I found out the agency were charging £650 for an hour.

£650 for an hours work and they wanted to borrow my PA for free....right.

[ross@rds]

Cheers guys , not sure if its just vocals or instruments gonna call the client as it was enquiry via website and also get the name of the band see if they are good or cowboys lol ive got a pa mixer so dont mind linking them up on that but at a cost. Makes me wonder if they want to link to my mixer they must not have sound equipment some band lol.

[A1DL]

If it is a small venue and the band only want to amplify vocals and perhaps a couple of acoustic guitars, then putting that through a "standard" (for want of a better word) DJ sound system should cause no problems.

If it is a medium to large venue and they want to mike up the drum kit, bass, electric guitars, etc, then the PA system needs to be up to the job.

[BeerFunk]

All rock and punk bands are cowboys! :D

It's not rock & roll to have PLI and PAT, or to treat equipment with respect :)

No, seriously, they wouldn't be plugging into my amp.

[Excalibur]

Cheers guys , not sure if its just vocals or instruments gonna call the client as it was enquiry via website and also get the name of the band see if they are good or cowboys lol ive got a pa mixer so dont mind linking them up on that but at a cost. Makes me wonder if they want to link to my mixer they must not have sound equipment some band lol.

Might easily be a friend/relative with a "Hobby" band, and no PA. That occurs quite often, they have enough kit to play in a garage/attic/shed, but not a village hall/function room/arena. ;) :D :D :D


If it is a small venue and the band only want to amplify vocals and perhaps a couple of acoustic guitars, then putting that through a "standard" (for want of a better word) DJ sound system should cause no problems.

If it is a medium to large venue and they want to mike up the drum kit, bass, electric guitars, etc, then the PA system needs to be up to the job.

Agreed totally there.

[CRAZY K]

Hi all looking for your help here

been asked to dj at a 30th along with a band they are wanting to hook there mics to my equipment. Never played alongside a band so dont know if its good or bad experience , so looking for your help if you've done it before and also any tips before i decide if i want to do it or not cheers.

They will blow your speakers away---dont go there.

Tell em to bring their own PA like proper bands do:D :D :D

I have played with some good bands--but I did my sets through THE BANDS EQUIPMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CRAZY K

[PropellerHeadCase]

I've had just this discussion with a potential client recently and told them that the requirements of a band PZ and a DJ are somewhat different in that I could plug into the spare channels of a band PA, no problem, but the vice could not be versa. I've suggested organising a PA for both the band and me for which I will reduce my price slightly, unless they wantr me to act as Sound Engineer for the night in which case the price goes back up, and then some (especially if I'm required to sound-check the band).

[Excalibur]

I've had just this discussion with a potential client recently and told them that the requirements of a band PZ and a DJ are somewhat different in that I could plug into the spare channels of a band PA, no problem, but the vice could not be versa. I've suggested organising a PA for both the band and me for which I will reduce my price slightly, unless they wantr me to act as Sound Engineer for the night in which case the price goes back up, and then some (especially if I'm required to sound-check the band).

Excellent advice there. :D

[Penfold42]

I agree with everyone....'Tell them too swivel!!' :zip:

[Kernow]

This can work both ways

Strangely, about 6 weeks ago I played alongside a band and it was prearranged that I would use their pa, decks & mixer. (Actually a more than adequate Kam stack with A&H PA12 ;) ). This avoided the 'clutter' of two seperate systems and proved very succesful. After all it was my ability as a DJ that was required ,the equipment was of no importance.

So much so that a prospective client who had been specially invited along to see them has booked us both for her 50th in May.

I received my full fee and they didn't charge me a penny for the hire/use.


Normally any self respecting Band will have their own amps for instruments and should only require a mic connection to the PA for vocals.

In reciprocation I would be more than happy to offer this ,after all I have control of the levels so they won't be able to blow anything.

[rob1963]

Unless they are paying you a hire fee, don't bother.

Why should they get paid and use your equipment?

They might damage your equipment too.

Absolutely!

Also, why do they only want to connect their MICROPHONES to your gear?

:confused:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Absolutely!

Also, why do they only want to connect their MICROPHONES to your gear?

:confused:

To use it as a vocal PA Rob - generally, all the other instruments will have their own amps and speakers.

[Tom]

To use it as a vocal PA Rob - generally, all the other instruments will have their own amps and speakers.

I agree here but drums are an acoustic instrument. They can be only be played so loud. A bit like the acoustic guitar. The harder you play the louder it gets but its hits a point where you cant play any louder and it starts to affect your playing.

Thats why a lot of bands like to mic everything up and then they can play relaxed and give a better perforormance.

Personally i wouldnt let a band use my pa as i know the hard way. You use your PA for what you intend to use it for and let the band use there's.

:)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I agree here but drums are an acoustic instrument. They can be only be played so loud.

Drums can still be mic'd up though. Or isn't that what you are saying?

[Tom]

Drums can still be mic'd up though. Or isn't that what you are saying?

I was just saying why bands have there own pa but then again prefer to use others as there is a lot of setting up invloved.

The sound inside a bass drum can emit somthing like 130db. Now you going to put a microphone in there to make it louder. If you dont know what you are doing when it comes to live sound i would stay clear of using your own pa system.

If the eq is wrong you can say good bye to you speakers.

I think i have made this go off topic now. :(

Anyway....As i said, if it was me dont let the band use your pa system

[rob1963]

Absolutely!

Also, why do they only want to connect their MICROPHONES to your gear?

:confused:


To use it as a vocal PA Rob - generally, all the other instruments will have their own amps and speakers.

I just don't understand why they would want to plug their mics into someone elses system...when they already have their own amps & speakers anyway?

:confused:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I just don't understand why they would want to plug their mics into someone elses system...when they already have their own amps & speakers anyway?

:confused:

The amps and speakers are for each instrument - they have there own. The vocals need to go through a PA designed for vocals rather than a bass guitar amp for example.

[rob1963]

The amps and speakers are for each instrument - they have there own. The vocals need to go through a PA designed for vocals rather than a bass guitar amp for example.

Ahhhh...thanks for that, Darren.

To be honest, though, if I was in a band & we already had all our instruments, amps, mixers, speakers etc...I don't think it would be much more hassle to have the additional equipment required for the vocals.

After all, that's what most bands do! I've worked with loads of them over the years, and they've NEVER asked to plug anything into my system.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Ahhhh...thanks for that, Darren.

To be honest, though, if I was in a band & we already had all our instruments, amps, mixers, speakers etc...I don't think it would be much more hassle to have the additional equipment required for the vocals.

After all, that's what most bands do! I've worked with loads of them over the years, and they've NEVER asked to plug anything into my system.

Perhaps they'd heard it before...:boxer2:

[rob1963]

Perhaps they'd heard it before...:boxer2:

Fair comment, Darren...




...after all, I didn't get the Mackies until late last year! :D

[Excalibur]

Might easily be a friend/relative with a "Hobby" band, and no PA. That occurs quite often, they have enough kit to play in a garage/attic/shed, but not a village hall/function room/arena. ;) :D :D :D




They will blow your speakers away---dont go there.

Tell em to bring their own PA like proper bands do:D :D :D

I have played with some good bands--but I did my sets through THE BANDS EQUIPMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CRAZY K




This can work both ways

Strangely, about 6 weeks ago I played alongside a band and it was prearranged that I would use their pa, decks & mixer. (Actually a more than adequate Kam stack with A&H PA12 ;) ). This avoided the 'clutter' of two seperate systems and proved very succesful. After all it was my ability as a DJ that was required ,the equipment was of no importance.

So much so that a prospective client who had been specially invited along to see them has booked us both for her 50th in May.

I received my full fee and they didn't charge me a penny for the hire/use.


Normally any self respecting Band will have their own amps for instruments and should only require a mic connection to the PA for vocals.

In reciprocation I would be more than happy to offer this ,after all I have control of the levels so they won't be able to blow anything.


Absolutely!

Also, why do they only want to connect their MICROPHONES to your gear?

:confused:


To use it as a vocal PA Rob - generally, all the other instruments will have their own amps and speakers.


I just don't understand why they would want to plug their mics into someone elses system...when they already have their own amps & speakers anyway?

:confused:

I say again, just in case everybody missed it: They might very well not be a pro, or semi-pro band playing gigs for real money!!!!!!!!!! If they just do it for fun, at home, they won't have gone out and bought a 5Kw PA will they? So when their mate says" Hey Fred, how would you like to play an hour set of your legendary funky speed garage house psychobilly reggae at my impending birthday party? " Fred replies" I'd love to, Cecil old chum. As lond as we can plug our vocal mics into the DJ's PA, since we aren't going to spend money hiring a mega PA for a freebie gig" Cecil thinks about it and says" No probs Fred. That Rob James is such a helpful fellow, he won't mind at all! "

You're all assuming it's a gigging band with full PA. It probably isn't:bang:



I've had just this discussion with a potential client recently and told them that the requirements of a band PZ and a DJ are somewhat different in that I could plug into the spare channels of a band PA, no problem, but the vice could not be versa. I've suggested organising a PA for both the band and me for which I will reduce my price slightly, unless they wantr me to act as Sound Engineer for the night in which case the price goes back up, and then some (especially if I'm required to sound-check the band).

Run it yourself mate. Then you won't face the problem of the Band doind a runner with it an hour before the end of the gig, usually straight through the middle of your packed dancefloor!!!!!!:bang: :bang: :bang:

[rob1963]

"As long as we can plug our vocal mics into the DJ's PA, since we aren't going to spend money hiring a mega PA for a freebie gig" Cecil thinks about it and says" No probs Fred. That Rob James is such a helpful fellow, he won't mind at all!"

:Laugh:

[CRAZY K]

This can work both ways

Strangely, about 6 weeks ago I played alongside a band and it was prearranged that I would use their pa, decks & mixer. (Actually a more than adequate Kam stack with A&H PA12 ;) ). This avoided the 'clutter' of two seperate systems and proved very succesful. After all it was my ability as a DJ that was required ,the equipment was of no importance.

So much so that a prospective client who had been specially invited along to see them has booked us both for her 50th in May.

I received my full fee and they didn't charge me a penny for the hire/use.


Normally any self respecting Band will have their own amps for instruments and should only require a mic connection to the PA for vocals.

In reciprocation I would be more than happy to offer this ,after all I have control of the levels so they won't be able to blow anything.

Whilst most of this is absolutely true, I still get nervous about odd frequencies-especially bass--that could wreck a speaker.

And then the audience say--turn it up we cant hear you---and then the BIG ARGUMENT STARTS with the Band the Client etc !!!!

Its just not worth going there:eek:

CRAZY K

[A1DL]

Whilst most of this is absolutely true, I still get nervous about odd frequencies-especially bass--that could wreck a speaker.
CRAZY K


most Peavey users do get that nervous feeling :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :cool:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Whilst most of this is absolutely true, I still get nervous about odd frequencies-especially bass--that could wreck a speaker.



If it was a vocal PA, surely there wouldn't be hardly any bass?

[Tom]

A normal voice cannot creat anything under 80hz unless you have a really deep voice.

Also there the chance of poping if saying letters like p,b, ect.

[davidcormack]

cant be much of a band if they havent got a pa of their own

[HaiFai]

most Peavey users do get that nervous feeling :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :cool:

I often work with bands and have been asked if they could use my system for there vocals to save bringing another P.A always say No after one experiance where singer thought best l sound was to turn everything upto full gains - sliders and amp gains luckly no damage as I controlled it quickly .

So i agree with most let them use there own, if you do let them use for vocals sound check and you control the mixer.

On that though I use Peavey given them a battering through the years with No cones or diaphrams replaced.

[Corabar Steve]

cant be much of a band if they havent got a pa of their own

Why? When I was in my band we did 70+ gigs in 2 years without our own PA.

We were not a functions band & all the venues we played (the Dublin Castle, the Peel, the Red Eye, the Bull & Gate & other known London gig venues) had full in house PAs.

The band concerned may be in the same situation. It's very uncommon for bands that write & record their own material & perform on the gig circuit to actually own a PA. Function / covers bands on the other hand do tend to have a PA of their own.

[A1DL]

Steve is absolutely right, there are many touring bands that don't have their own PA, but will use local PA companies.

They will often have their own sound engineer, and the reason they are so particular about rider compliance is because they know the sound they want to achieve, and the best way to achieve this is to use the same makes/models of mics, desk/s, outboard and cabs wherever they perform. The only variable is room acoustics.

[Kernow]

If you use your mics without problem for announcements/speeches/karaoke etc. then there is no reason why a Band should be any different.

When the Band in which I play perform, the guitar amps are rated around 60-100 Watts. These are easily capable of being heard clearly above the drums and I use a Peavey Escort (150 w) portable PA for vocals, which is more than adequate for all but the largest venues.

You don't need to gun gains or faders up above 25% or so on a general Disco PA to acheive the same, so where's all this damage coming from ??

[CRAZY K]

most Peavey users do get that nervous feeling :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :cool:

Not when using matched Peavey equipment without abusive input
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

CRAZY K

[CRAZY K]

If it was a vocal PA, surely there wouldn't be hardly any bass?

Technically I agree with you--but then again how do I lose a load of emails on one of the leading email box hosts--yahoo?

Never say never:D

CRAZY K

[pagan_flame]

I also will allow this, for an additional £100 fee. This usually puts them off, as a PA can be hired for much less than that for an evening... and especially when I point this out to them!

However if they insist... I have a 4-channel mixer plus separate EQ with Noise Gate and Limiter, which goes in line before it gets plugged into my rig - with full control of all levels at MY hands. I also have microphones, stands and leads for miking up - like Steve I too used to play in bands and have many years experience of this sort of thing.

... But! There is No Way Under Any Circumstances that I would trust them to just plug their stuff into my rig unsupervised / unmodulated!

What is also amusing is the number of times I have tersely been told to keep my lights off when the band are playing 'as we're a band not a bl**dy discotheque' - only for them to find that they are playing in the dark!

[theoloyla]

My word! I've said it before and I'll say it again "You lot are precious!" I've worked with hundreds of singers, comedians and groups etc and I am quite happy to let them use my equipment. This Saturday I am working with a toastmaster at a wedding. Will he bring his own mike and p.a.? What do you think? If it is easier for a group to use your system to do a 45 minute spot when you are there for 5 hours then it certainly beats having them lug their gear in and out of the venue when you are trying to perform (as mentioned in a previous post). Having said all of that my experience is that only acoustic bands and cabaret singers with backing tracks will want to use my system. If they are bringing in guitar, bass, keyboard amps they will want to use their own p.a. as well.

[theoloyla]

... But! There is No Way Under Any Circumstances that I would trust them to just plug their stuff into my rig unsupervised / unmodulated!

What is also amusing is the number of times I have tersely been told to keep my lights off when the band are playing 'as we're a band not a bl**dy discotheque' - only for them to find that they are playing in the dark!
How true that is!

[Tom]

My word! I've said it before and I'll say it again "You lot are precious!" I've worked with hundreds of singers, comedians and groups etc and I am quite happy to let them use my equipment. This Saturday I am working with a toastmaster at a wedding.

A toastmaster is different to a band. I dont mind letting people at weddings use my equipment just as long there is no band.

[PropellerHeadCase]

My word! I've said it before and I'll say it again "You lot are precious!"

Nothing to do with being precious, Theo...

If we're talking a full band (and in the case of a client enquiry I had recently we were - groom was guitarist) then there's no way they're going through my PA. A live band PA needs a lot more head-room than a PA for playing pre-recorded music back, which is why I could plug into their PA, but not vice versa. Even if they had a well set-up desk with compressor/limiters on all of the channels and I was getting a tidy signal it would still be going out at a level that most bands would consider unacceptable as their dynamic range will still be way more than the more easily manageable 10-15dB present in most recorded music.

Furthermore relatively few venues are capacious enough to have both band and DJ on the same stage so you often find yourself off to one side which means that the source of the sound will be offset from the band which is disconcerting for the punters, especially if you're just being used as a vocal PA and the acoustic or self-amplified instruments are coming from where the band physically is.

I don't think anyone suggested not allowing the MC/toastmaster access to a mic... a "professional" speaker is a bit different to a band.

[theoloyla]

But that was my point. A proper band would not want to use my system whereas a trio using acoustic guitars might. They are still "a band".

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Nothing to do with being precious, Theo...



I agree.

I run a business not a charity.

[Danno13]

Furthermore relatively few venues are capacious enough to have both band and DJ on the same stage so you often find yourself off to one side which means that the source of the sound will be offset from the band which is disconcerting for the punters, especially if you're just being used as a vocal PA and the acoustic or self-amplified instruments are coming from where the band physically is.

I always put my speakers with the bands, so if i'm to the side of the stage I always stick a speaker each side, or just in front. Just so that all the sound is coming from the same place and the spread over the dancefloor is even.

Like this - http://www.revolution-discos.co.uk/gallery/getpic/600/07.07.07/rig_1.jpg/

Although, that was obviously before the band arrived and setup!

[Excalibur]

What is also amusing is the number of times I have tersely been told to keep my lights off when the band are playing 'as we're a band not a bl**dy discotheque' - only for them to find that they are playing in the dark!

:lol: :lol:


My word! I've said it before and I'll say it again "You lot are precious!" I've worked with hundreds of singers, comedians and groups etc and I am quite happy to let them use my equipment. This Saturday I am working with a toastmaster at a wedding. Will he bring his own mike and p.a.? What do you think? If it is easier for a group to use your system to do a 45 minute spot when you are there for 5 hours then it certainly beats having them lug their gear in and out of the venue when you are trying to perform (as mentioned in a previous post). Having said all of that my experience is that only acoustic bands and cabaret singers with backing tracks will want to use my system. If they are bringing in guitar, bass, keyboard amps they will want to use their own p.a. as well.

It must be an age thing, Theo! If I remember correctly, an exact parallel of the " Would you let someone do a guest slot with your gear" thread. The sad demise of common courtesy and altruism. ;) :D I'm all right Jack, Devil take the hindmost!! :eek: :eek:

And yes, I am anticipating a barrage of " It's my living, and nobody but me touches it" replies, I completely accept them as valid and understandable. It's just that DJ's of an age with Theo and myself seem to look at it differently from the younger ones. Can you please accept that this post is not handbags at twenty paces, just two viewpoints which will probably not converge? I'm not looking for a fight with anyone, just putting up another view. Now where's that sofa gone? :confused: :confused:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I accept your point of view, but don't agree.

I am not precious about equipment, but I have a business to run. This is my living and the equipment are the tools of my trade. If they should get ruined by someone not paying for them or not hiring them, then I would be out of pocket.

[PropellerHeadCase]

And yes, I am anticipating a barrage of " It's my living, and nobody but me touches it" replies, I completely accept them as valid and understandable. It's just that DJ's of an age with Theo and myself seem to look at it differently from the younger ones. Can you please accept that this post is not handbags at twenty paces, just two viewpoints which will probably not converge? I'm not looking for a fight with anyone, just putting up another view. Now where's that sofa gone? :confused: :confused:

Actually, Peter, I think it has far more to do with the very age thing that you mention. Even DJs of around my age, and certainly those that are older will generally be respectful of the equipment they have asked to have a go on, the same is not true of the teenage oik wannabe who has no respect for and/or technical ability with the equipment and thinks he's god's gift to whichever meaningless sub-genre was invented last week.

I've lost count of the number of bedroom DJs I've seen with the EQ set to "smiley" (bass on full, treble on full - mid set at unity) because they are used to their micro-system at home. Even with a good array of protection devices on my system I still wouldn't be happy with someone ramping the bass EQ to full and banging the master fader into the stratosphere (it HAS happened).

[A1DL]

I am not precious about equipment, but I have a business to run. This is my living and the equipment are the tools of my trade. If they should get ruined by someone not paying for them or not hiring them, then I would be out of pocket.


:agree:

especially when people want to do this for nothing, i.e. they "just want to plug into the DJ's system", often at very short notice.

If a big PA is required then great, we'll supply whatever you want, but there's a price ticket attached to that.

[Excalibur]

I don't think anyone suggested not allowing the MC/toastmaster access to a mic... a "professional" speaker is a bit different to a band.

In what way? He's a professional, so shouldn't he have his own gear? If I go to build a fence for someone, I don't ask to borrow a hammer!

Yes I'm being deliberately obtuse, to illustrate a point.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

In what way? He's a professional, so shouldn't he have his own gear?

Absolutely. ;)

Toastmasters are way overrated IMO.

Anyone with a bit of experience, common sense and a decent speaking voice could do the job they do at most weddings.

[Excalibur]

I accept your point of view, but don't agree.

I am not precious about equipment, but I have a business to run. This is my living and the equipment are the tools of my trade. If they should get ruined by someone not paying for them or not hiring them, then I would be out of pocket.

A point which I can in no way overturn, since it is a maxim which I think we all have in mind most of the time. While I advocate the helping hand philosophy, it's not set in stone. Not everybody gets a free play. You would be amazed how many people want to " Borrow" ( not " HIRE" ) some of my day job tools.:eek: :eek: :eek:


Absolutely. ;)

Toastmasters are way overrated IMO.

Anyone with a bit of experience, common sense and a decent speaking voice could do the job they do at most weddings.

Even DJ's ! :D :D Hey Rob, another avenue of employment for you. ;) :D

( Actually Darren, here we are in total agreement. I tend to view them as superfluous, and an affectation.)

[Kernow]

Hey Peter & Theo,

Maybe those of us of a certain age should band together into a breakaway group, 'Gentlemen Of Discretion'.

How do you feel about being G.O.D 's ?...we probably deserve it.!! :beer1:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

More like 'Gone Out of Date' :sj:

[PropellerHeadCase]

Oooh :Laugh:

[Excalibur]

More like 'Gone Out of Date' :sj:

Quality never goes out of date, my dear Darren. ;)

[PropellerHeadCase]

In what way? He's a professional, so shouldn't he have his own gear? If I go to build a fence for someone, I don't ask to borrow a hammer!

Yes I'm being deliberately obtuse, to illustrate a point.

In many situations a good professional speaker doesn't need a microphone, but the non-professional speakers in attendance do :D



Absolutely. ;)

Toastmasters are way overrated IMO.

Anyone with a bit of experience, common sense and a decent speaking voice could do the job they do at most weddings.

Spoken like someone who has no fear of public speaking... said fear rating above fear of death for your average person (there are 247,000 results on Google for "Fear of Public Speaking").

Having been to many a wedding where none of the speakers had any of the attributes you've listed, Darren, I say that they are marketable skills, and good on them for making money out of it.



Hey Peter & Theo,

Maybe those of us of a certain age should band together into a breakaway group, 'Gentlemen Of Discretion'.

How do you feel about being G.O.D 's ?...we probably deserve it.!! :beer1:


More like 'Gone Out of Date' :sj:

Growing Old Disgracefully?
Groovin' Older DJs?
Greying Older DJs?
Grumpy Old Duffers?

I'm sure the list could be endless :D

[Harrison's Discos]

heres a little idea.. make someone put a deposit down of your choice. If they abuse your system, or make you do something you really preffer not to and end up damaging any of your equip, then it's ''sorry mate you didn't play by the rules, you carn't have your deposit back''.
Or, if you really wouldn't mind someone using your equip and they build trust up with you, that they swear they will not damage anything, if they go ahead and blatantly do it, make them pay the full cost of whatever they damaged.

[rob1963]

Hey Rob, another avenue of employment for you. ;) :D

I've already started making enquiries! :D


heres a little idea.. make someone put a deposit down of your choice.

Here's a better idea...don't let them anywhere near your gear in the first place!

[Paul James Promotions]

heres a little idea.. make someone put a deposit down of your choice. If they abuse your system, or make you do something you really preffer not to and end up damaging any of your equip, then it's ''sorry mate you didn't play by the rules, you carn't have your deposit back''.
Or, if you really wouldn't mind someone using your equip and they build trust up with you, that they swear they will not damage anything, if they go ahead and blatantly do it, make them pay the full cost of whatever they damaged.

So, you are going to let bands plug into your Basys? :D

[PropellerHeadCase]

I've already started making enquities! :D

Sounds painful.

[Kernow]

Sounds painful.

And no doubt leads to the putting down of deposits, which I hope he'll clean up :D

[theoloyla]

Hey Peter & Theo,

Maybe those of us of a certain age should band together into a breakaway group, 'Gentlemen Of Discretion'.

How do you feel about being G.O.D 's ?...we probably deserve it.!! :beer1:
Excellent suggestion!:beer1: :)

[PropellerHeadCase]

And no doubt leads to the putting down of deposits, which I hope he'll clean up :D

:eek: :eek: :confused: :confused: ;) ;) :D :D

[Kernow]

Excellent suggestion!:beer1: :)

What they don't realise Theo is that we have survived all the mistakes they haven't even made yet. ;)

[Excalibur]

Growing Old Disgracefully?
Groovin' Older DJs?
Greying Older DJs?
Grumpy Old Duffers?

I'm sure the list could be endless :D

All of the above! ;) :D

[robbiedj]

Hey Peter & Theo,

Maybe those of us of a certain age should band together into a breakaway group, 'Gentlemen Of Discretion'.

How do you feel about being G.O.D 's ?...we probably deserve it.!! :beer1:

A good wine improves with age unlike a beaujolais nuevo which turns to vinegar.

[Kernow]

Cheers Robbie.....the membership grows in leaps & bounds.:beer1: :beer1:

Now back on topic....A thought to consider,,,,


So you won't let anyone plug into your kit ?...


......But you're quite happy to plug yours into someone elses supply !!!:confused:

[rob1963]

So you won't let anyone plug into your kit ?...

......But you're quite happy to plug yours into someone elses supply !!!:confused:

Correct.

I've never had a problem caused by the mains supply at a venue.

I probably couldn't say the same thing about bands if they'd been plugging their stuff into my kit every weekend for the last 24 years!

[Harrison's Discos]

Here's a better idea...don't let them anywhere near your gear in the first place!
Yes & no. If you someone gives you their word you usually trust them. Or that's what you would expect anyway...

So, you are going to let bands plug into your Basys? :D
Absolutly not! The system is far too expensive and of good quality to let something like 'that' happen.

[Tom]

Im working with a band tonight. I wont be letting them use my equipment and if they turn up hopeing to use what i have got they can walk right away.

Should be intresting

[Dragonfly]

I have been playing with rather alot of bands recently ..........








http://s133702574.onlinehome.us/pictures/blog/rubberbandball.jpg

[PropellerHeadCase]

You shouldn't go bandying that around!

By the way, what's 'Ecellence'? ;)

[rob1963]

Here's a better idea...don't let them anywhere near your gear in the first place!


Yes & no. If you someone gives you their word you usually trust them. Or that's what you would expect anyway...

If someone you don't know & have never met before gives you their word about something you usually trust them? Really? I don't!

If they want to plug into your system, of COURSE they are going to say that there won't be any problems, or that they've done it with discos loads of times before, or that you can trust them...otherwise you'd be less likely to agree to it!

So why take the risk?

[Harrison's Discos]

If someone you don't know & have never met before gives you their word about something you usually trust them? Really? I don't!

I was reffering to someone that you know, but if i didn't know them then it would be a 90% no, because 10% of me would feel a bit guilty, but thats me.

[theoloyla]

No one seems to have taken on board what I said in an earlier post. I have been dj'ing for 42 years and I have never had a ban WANT to plug into my gear except for singers with backing tracks and/or acoustic instruments. I have 2 mike inputs and four line inputs and in order to let a band use them I would need to unplug some of my equipment. It just doesnt happen.

[Harrison's Discos]

I have never had a ban WANT to plug into my gear except for singers with backing tracks and/or acoustic instruments.
But that's what people are concerned about. Some bands like having their acoustic instruments up really loud and some of the bass notes and highs on them can wreck speakers.

[theoloyla]

But that's what people are concerned about. Some bands like having their acoustic instruments up really loud and some of the bass notes and highs on them can wreck speakers.
Really!!? I find that very hard to believe. My equipment has never suffered but then I also stay in charge of the volume controls if someone else is performing.

[Excalibur]

No one seems to have taken on board what I said in an earlier post. I have been dj'ing for 42 years and I have never had a ban WANT to plug into my gear except for singers with backing tracks and/or acoustic instruments. I have 2 mike inputs and four line inputs and in order to let a band use them I would need to unplug some of my equipment. It just doesnt happen.

Did somebody say something? Only joking Theo, I don't think anyone took on board what I said about " Hobby " bands, with no ( need for / return on the cost of an expensive ) PA either. ;)

[Harrison's Discos]

I also stay in charge of the volume controls if someone else is performing.

That's another thing people are saying. They would only let a band use their speakers if they had full control of the volume controls. But as someone has experianced a band member walking up to their sound controls and turning everything up to the top, that is slightly off putting dont you think?

[Excalibur]

That's another thing people are saying. They would only let a band use their speakers if they had full control of the volume controls. But as someone has experianced a band member walking up to their sound controls and turning everything up to the top, that is slightly off putting dont you think?

While they may be granted an input into the hallowed equipment, it's never on self-drive. ;) ;)

[CRAZY K]

While they may be granted an input into the hallowed equipment, it's never on self-drive. ;) ;)

As mentioned before--theres always the potential clash between the band, the equipment owner and the client when the band say--it aint loud enough:eek: So I still think avoid this arrangement.

On a much more positive note we arrange for many Barn and Line Dance Callers ( including myself ) to use their mikes and CD/Minidisc players through DJs equipment and that has never been a problem--but then we dont play at ear bursting volume--generally:D

Actually there was a problem on my doorstep in Northampton-

DJ refused to let me do this so I took my kit as well which looked stupid overkill in a small room.

Turns out the DJ didnt have an input for me on his mixer--if he had one im not sure!!!!!!!!!!

I still often think of that and burst out laughing

CRAZY K

[Kernow]

I would suggest that everyone refers back to post #1 which started the thread.

'The Band has asked to connect Mics through the PA'

Where on earth did all the nonsense about mikeing up drums, DI boxes, Bass Players, keyboards etc. come from ??? :confused:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

It's a forum - people discuss things.

[Vectis]

It's a forum - people discuss things.

And whilst I'm at it, has anyone seen the price of bread lately? :eek:

(oops, sorry, politics :zip: ) :D

[Harrison's Discos]

And whilst I'm at it, has anyone seen the price of bread lately? :eek:

(oops, sorry, politics :zip: ) :D

:Laugh: :clap:

True though........

[Kernow]

And whilst I'm at it, has anyone seen the price of bread lately? :eek:

(oops, sorry, politics :zip: ) :D

Pre or Post Budget ? :)

[CRAZY K]

I would suggest that everyone refers back to post #1 which started the thread.

'The Band has asked to connect Mics through the PA'

Where on earth did all the nonsense about mikeing up drums, DI boxes, Bass Players, keyboards etc. come from ??? :confused:

Didnt say what was being miked up though--

Could be anything--guitar, drums, BASS:eek:

Not just vocals--who knows?

CRAZY K

[Kernow]

OK

Well if they're mic'ing up a drum kit, pair of Vox AC30's, 4x12 Marshall Bass Cab,the London Philharmonic Orchestra and a Gospel Choir they would benefit more from a Sound Engineer & 64 channel mixing desk. However it won't make any difference to a 'normal' PA as the only inputs will be mics and if the DJ insists on controlling the levels then no damage is likely.

Instruments like guitars will need pre-amps and DI connections and will not sound particularly good through mids & tweeters anyway.

My guess is that they just want to add amplified vocals and this is no different to Karaoke, which our equipment should handle easily. :)

[ross@rds]

Hi thanks for the help guys , since posting i contacted the client and said i would not connect the equipment to my system due to company policy but would hire out sound equipment to the band. Not heard any more at the min tho lol.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I just read something vr interesting that makes a lot of comments on here null and void in terms of "They only want to use microphones for vocal and I'll be in charge of the volume"

Read and weep....

Speakers fail for three reasons:


1) Just old age where the paper cone starts to get brittle and the outer corrugated ring just tears. The same applies to speakers that have a foam or rubber surround where, after time, the material perishes.

2) Being heavily overdriven to the point that the cone is driven past its compliance and distorts the cone as the photographs below show. In some cases the cone can totally split. If your speaker is in this state then the failure is user error. Most probably if it has been used for vocals and the microphone has been too close to the lips or someone has tapped the microphone to check the system is working.

3) Speech coil failure. This is where the winding has experienced dc voltage as a result of amplifier failure, although serious overload can cause the same problem. You will very often see this with hf and mid-range speakers. In this case it is essential for the amplifier to be thoroughly checked . Any dc offset greater than 40mV is suspect and needs looking into.

[PropellerHeadCase]

2) Being heavily overdriven to the point that the cone is driven past its compliance and distorts the cone as the photographs below show. In some cases the cone can totally split. If your speaker is in this state then the failure is user error. Most probably if it has been used for vocals and the microphone has been too close to the lips or someone has tapped the microphone to check the system is working.

I had speeches like that the other day - thank god for compressor/limiters.

[pagan_flame]

My own cordless mics go through an effects processor with noise gate - if they tap the mic nothing happens...

...which is when they hand it back to me and say 'That's not working' at which point I put it up to my mouth and say (at around 3kW) 'OH YES IT IS' and then hand it back to them... :rolleyes:

[Harrison's Discos]

Instruments like guitars will need pre-amps and DI connections True as we have to use them at church.

and will not sound particularly good through mids & tweeters anyway. False! If you know how to EQ your sound system it sounds brilliant! and we use peavey!


i would not connect the equipment to my system due to company policy but would hire out sound equipment to the band..

My goodness! Your going to let them have your kit entirely? :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Kernow]

False! If you know how to EQ your sound system it sounds brilliant! and we use peavey!

Interesting ;) , I have used the Peavey Escort for Electro-Acoustic/Vocal performances and it sounds really great.
Sure if you 'kill' the EQ highs it's acceptable but then isn't that virtually cutting out the horn outputs altogether ?

However in over 40 years of playing, I have yet to have encounter a dedicated guitar amp that has anything other than 8" -18" cones fitted.

If you know of one I'll be delighted to give it a go :)

Back on topic...

It still mystifies me that many people are quite happy to 'rent' space on their equipment but not do exactly the same in a complimentary manner ?

[rob1963]

I have used the Peavey Escort

I didn't know they were moving into THAT market!

:D

[Kernow]

I didn't know they were moving into THAT market!

:D

A natural progression from Computer Dating !! :D

[rob1963]

A natural progression from Computer Dating !! :D

:Laugh:

[ross@rds]

My goodness! Your going to let them have your kit entirely? :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

No ive got other equipment for PA hire.

[theoloyla]

I just read something vr interesting that makes a lot of comments on here null and void in terms of "They only want to use microphones for vocal and I'll be in charge of the volume"

Read and weep....

Speakers fail for three reasons:


1) Just old age where the paper cone starts to get brittle and the outer corrugated ring just tears. The same applies to speakers that have a foam or rubber surround where, after time, the material perishes.

2) Being heavily overdriven to the point that the cone is driven past its compliance and distorts the cone as the photographs below show. In some cases the cone can totally split. If your speaker is in this state then the failure is user error. Most probably if it has been used for vocals and the microphone has been too close to the lips or someone has tapped the microphone to check the system is working.

3) Speech coil failure. This is where the winding has experienced dc voltage as a result of amplifier failure, although serious overload can cause the same problem. You will very often see this with hf and mid-range speakers. In this case it is essential for the amplifier to be thoroughly checked . Any dc offset greater than 40mV is suspect and needs looking into.
I remember that sort of advice too which is all well and good for ribbon mikes etc but not for modern vocal mikes like we use which are designed and built for use in close proximity to the lips.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I remember that sort of advice too which is all well and good for ribbon mikes etc but not for modern vocal mikes like we use which are designed and built for use in close proximity to the lips.

That isn't my advice. That is advice from a guy who repairs amps Theo, so you're disagreeing with an expert in his field.

[theoloyla]

I realized they were not your words but I shall still beg to differ with your expert. He mends amplifiers you say yet the advice is about speakers failing.:confused: Of course speakers fail. Nothing goes on forever and it will be extremes of use that cause the most damage; so of course we should try to avoid thumps, bumps, feedback, distortion etc. That is common sense; however, the advice given by your amp repairing expert reference mike use shows little or no understanding of the use of modern day microphones with a tight cardiod response pattern which we use on a regular basis. If you look at old advice from years ago it does indeed tell you that you should speak from over 6 inches away from the mike. With modern mikes in a noisy disco environment that would result in you not being heard.

[rob1963]

If you look at old advice from years ago it does indeed tell you that you should speak from over 6 inches away from the mike. With modern mikes in a noisy disco environment that would result in you not being heard.

I agree.

Whenever I hand my mic to someone who wants to make a speech, I always tell them to hold it close to their mouth.

Sometimes, they don't, which ALWAYS results in cries of "we can't hear you" from the guests.

[BeerFunk]

Whenever I hand my mic to someone who wants to make a speech, I always tell them to hold it close to their mouth.

Sometimes, they don't, which ALWAYS results in cries of "we can't hear you" from the guests.Oh, too true, that really gets on my nerves! :mad:

I think some people are shy, and that's why they do that. You would think that they would instinctively bring it closer when they can't hear themselves loud enough, but then I suppose they haven't been using mics for years, like us.

[Excalibur]

I realized they were not your words but I shall still beg to differ with your expert. He mends amplifiers you say yet the advice is about speakers failing.:confused: Of course speakers fail. Nothing goes on forever and it will be extremes of use that cause the most damage; so of course we should try to avoid thumps, bumps, feedback, distortion etc. That is common sense; however, the advice given by your amp repairing expert reference mike use shows little or no understanding of the use of modern day microphones with a tight cardiod response pattern which we use on a regular basis. If you look at old advice from years ago it does indeed tell you that you should speak from over 6 inches away from the mike. With modern mikes in a noisy disco environment that would result in you not being heard.


I agree.

Whenever I hand my mic to someone who wants to make a speech, I always tell them to hold it close to their mouth.

Sometimes, they don't, which ALWAYS results in cries of "we can't hear you" from the guests.


Oh, too true, that really gets on my nerves! :mad:

I think some people are shy, and that's why they do that. You would think that they would instinctively bring it closer when they can't hear themselves loud enough, but then I suppose they haven't been using mics for years, like us.

Amen to all three of you. Do they think we mean three feet away, when we say close? :confused: :bang:

[rob1963]

Oh, too true, that really gets on my nerves! :mad:

I think some people are shy, and that's why they do that. You would think that they would instinctively bring it closer when they can't hear themselves loud enough, but then I suppose they haven't been using mics for years, like us.

The other annoying thing is when they turn their head to the side, often to look at someone they want to thank for helping to arrange the evening...but they still hold the mic in FRONT of them, resulting in what they say being completely inaudible for a few seconds.

:bang: :bang: :bang:

[theoloyla]

The other annoying thing is when they turn their head to the side, often to look at someone they want to thank for helping to arrange the evening...but they still hold the mic in FRONT of them, resulting in what they say being completely inaudible for a few seconds.

:bang: :bang: :bang:
Yeah I had that the other week and then he wanted to point at someone SO HE USED THE HAND HOLDING THE MIKE.:bang: :eek: